Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

 Brutus_Apex wrote:
I always try to include a Land Raider in any Chaos army I play.

Trouble is that it only holds 5 Terminators. Meaning you can't have a unit of terminators and a hero, so it's useless both from a gaming perspective because its rules are terrible and from a fluff perspective because you can't do what it should do in story terms.

It's a lose/lose situation.

Easily fixed. Create a custom rule which increases it's troop capacity to six. Now the Chaos Lord & his thugs are able to terrorize the battlefield together.

I always thought that there should be a general rule in the game called "Room for the Boss" that allows the transport of 1 character above a transport's maximum capacity.

Thing was, it already had its transport capacity increased in the 5th ed SM dex to 12 for that exact reason.

I presume they knocked it back down again somewhere between 6th and now.

 AngryAngel80 wrote:
I still use them but I don't mind being seen as dumb for using old stuff.

I mean look how much they cost now ?!?! Using a land raider shows you are a man of true taste. More than one means you are the don juan of 40k.

I have 3 and I feel a lot more like Don Quixote

 Banzaimash wrote:

 AngryAngel80 wrote:
I still use them but I don't mind being seen as dumb for using old stuff.

I mean look how much they cost now ?!?! Using a land raider shows you are a man of true taste. More than one means you are the don juan of 40k.

I have 3 and I feel a lot more like Don Quixote

Haha.

Its not quite tilting at windmills, but it is hard to get value out of them in codex SM.

The real problem is you can't properly rush them. They aren't exactly fast, and even a puny Gaunt standing in front of it means it can't travel through. Tank Shock needs to be a thing again.

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
The real problem is you can't properly rush them. They aren't exactly fast, and even a puny Gaunt standing in front of it means it can't travel through. Tank Shock needs to be a thing again.

Eh, I'm not particularly concerned about not being able to drive it into the enemy. If it's within 1" of the enemy, barring the exceptional case of fighting Space Marines who have a signficiantly above average ability to ignore deployment zones, it's probably done it's job and is time to unload troops, if not having unloaded already last turn.

Even with a 12" range Redeemer I don't really have problems with people tarpitting it. I just feel that they lack in purpose. They're not great tanks, because they have the weaponry of a much lesser vehicle in exchange for being able to carry terminators. But Terminators don't need carrying, and if I needed 4 Lascannons or 2 Hurricane Bolters and an Assault Cannon I'd take a cheaper Predator, or better yet, a Dreadnought since now apparently a dreadnought is substantially more resilient than a battle tank.

Even if you need a transport for your terminators, the landraider just dies to easily, and you end up with the transported unit in your deployment zone and losing 1/6th of your transported unit. It feels really weird that a Landraider is the easiest vehicle to kill when you are running DG:

 Saturmorn Carvilli wrote:


Loyalists don't really have anything beyond 10. Chaos space marines can be in squads of up to 20. Not that anyone ever goes beyond 10 since so little is gained.

Well Blood Claws can be 16 models, Grey hunters can be 11 and Wulfen can eat up 20 seats. Not to mention that you may want to put multiple cheap squads (like 3x5 Blood Claws) in the same vehicle or some characters.

So a transport capacity higher than 10 is actually pretty handy for marines, and the 16 seats that a Crusader has are the main reason to take that vehicle. In fact I would have never even considered a LR if it hadn't a transport capacity of 12-16, and that's the reason why I never bothered with standard LRs even during their glory times in older editions.

Transport capacity of 10 for a LR is just as bad as the transport capacity of 5 for a Drukhari Venom.

 BlaxicanX wrote:
The scope of the game has changed drastically while the LR has had the same rules and capabilities for like 20 years.

This is false. LR, of all kinds, have doubled their firepower since 8th edition, and can ignore penalties if they move which is a huge improvement. They can also fire while in combat now or fall back, they used to be tarpitted forever if someone managed to assault them.

Transport capacity is the same but it has nothing to do with the scope of the game, you don't play more marines than in previous editions. In fact SM lists tend to have lesser bodies than before.

The transition between AV to T, W and save made them weaker to ranged anti tank and mid strenght weapons but much stronger against haywire, gauss or grav that needed just 4 glancing hits to wreck them. A single power klaw dude was a threat for a LR, now even a 5 man squad with power klaws dudes struggles to kill it. Immobilized, weapon destroyed and the stunned/shaken results that invalidated the model for a whole turn are also gone.

Basically everything has changed for LR.

Their problem is that SM have 10000000000 datasheets, including multiple utterly undercosted units that can either do the same job but 10 times better or can kill LRs without effort. Against a non SM army the LR is sufficiently reliable.

 BlaxicanX wrote:
No. Land Raiders with their current capabilities shouldn't be more than 150 points with weapons included. They're slow, poorly armed and their transport capacity is meh for what you're paying for. The scope of the game has changed drastically while the LR has had the same rules and capabilities for like 20 years.

At 250 they should have a transport capacity of 20 MEQ/10 TEQ. I would consider them then, for death star lists. Might also make big crusade squads or CSM blobs worth taking.

Wonder how much you would say ork battlewagon then would have to cost As 150 pts would make battlewagon look total junk.

Rhino's would also start to look rather sorry looking then.

To me they look more usable this edition than they have for the past two, they have come down in price and can at least shoot in combat now.

That said the damage inflation of the game has really hurt most vehicles, I'm all for marines having two wounds as I think it makes a nice distinction between normal and elite infantry and allows for weapons designed to kill both to have their place. Unfortunately the weapons taken to kill elite infantry also now kill tanks so we have a similar issue.

The T8 and 2+ save do mitigate this somewhat and once GW does something to address the eradicators and other undercosted anti-tank option I can see a place on the table for more expensive tanks. At the minute though, most marine armies are packing a cheap unit that will nuke one of these in a single turn, it should take an army a turn to do that not a single unit.