Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

 Overread wrote:

 Azreal13 wrote:
This may not bode well for anyone working in the retail arm. The conceit of their cost being offset by their role as recruitment centres and advertising may attract some fairly serious scrutiny given that GW has broken records with the majority of their retail estate acting as little more than shiny parcel collection points for a good bit of the trading period.

No these stats won't do that.
The stats that would do that would be if GW stores fail to recover at year or three after covid safety measures are removed.

Right now ANY store is going to show higher online sales over physical because even when stores were open many were still avoiding due to Corona risk. The only ones that will buck the trend will be food outlets and anywhere that latched onto essential supplies. Plus don't forget a huge amount of this sales drive is likely established and returned customers, not new ones. So sure GW could cut the stores, but they'd lose recruitment. Plus if the majority are collectors/painters (as some argue), then GW would be on very fragile footing in the long term. Don't forget for the majority of the market, GW is the gateway brand/product. All the others mostly rely on leaching off GW. So if GW stops stores and dials back on them then they lose a powerful marketing and recruitment tool. They have to rely on 3rd parties like all of GW's competition.


There's no denying that the highstreet isn't good even before corona, but GW has made it work and turning back on it would be only a short term saving with potential increased costs in the long term in how GW would get fresh customers.

That may only really be true there they've already dialed back a lot in GW stores in the US even before the virus. I imagine they could cut back further and even in their own backyard to cut some costs and still be alright so long as they actually support the FLGS network that carries their items. I'd love to see the numbers of people who actually started playing the game due to GW stores, as I know that wasn't me. My first buy was at a FLGS and through word of mouth from a friend and that got it started in our local area. When there was a GW store around it was only gone to as a side thought because we knew some of the people who worked there personally.

All I'm saying is if they closed some more stores, it may give other places a chance to shine more that offer wider variety of items so that GW doesn't have to be the hook to get people into mini wargaming but perhaps they can come in and pick one up of the many varieties currently out there from the get go.

 Pacific wrote:
Well I think the proof is in the data. Record sales in a year when for large parts of that year, in the biggest gaming markets, it was largely impossible to play games with any frequency.

So I would say undoubtedly that the 'hobby' side of collecting, building, painting must be enough for a large part of that customer market.

I would say that’s not proof of anything.A large portion could be and likely is gamers buying stuff with the expectation of playing a game down the track when things reopen.

Gamers mostly tend to paint their stuff before playing a game, so when everything is shut down and you don’t have the option of gaming, and also you can’t do your other hobbies that involve going out and being near other people, you fall back on the aspect that you can still do. Doesn’t mean you’ve magically become a collector instead of a gamer.

It’s like sim racing video games have exploded during covid.... because many people who couldn’t get their Motorsport fix in real Motorsport swapped over to sim racing. Same thing here, people can’t do anything else so they do what they can do, but and paint models.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Hollow wrote:

AllSeeingSkink wrote:

I'd suggest the cross over region is bigger than either of the individual circles

Perhaps, but we don't really know... Except for Gw saying that it's the case that collecters make up the majority of their sales for a number of years and sales massively increasing during a period where you can't really play. but nvm.

I’d suggest not even GW knows. They’ve likely taken some polls in some isolated instances that suggested a percentage of sales were to people who play less than X games per year, and they determined a value for X that they are calling “a collector”. They likely don’t know the actual number of people (vs number of sales), it’s likely only a small subset they’re extrapolating results from, and we have no idea how few games played represents a collector vs a gamer in GW’s eyes.

To me it just seems rather obvious that the appeal of GW products is the mixture of lore, models and gaming. It doesn’t mean you have people who only buy it for the lore, people who only buy it for the models and people who only buy it for the gaming, it means you have people who buy it for all 3, but have varying levels of participation in each. If you killed off any one aspect of it you may lose customers for whom that may have been a tertiary rather than primary reason they were customers.

Yeah what constitutes a gamer and a collector, I buy more than I play so am I collector ? I do however only buy to play the game but am I gamer ?

It's like the gamer terms of casual and competitive they don't really have a unified meaning as it can vary wildly based on the persons view point and there are levels even within those view points.

I would highly suspect GWs view on what is a collector and what is a gamer are so foreign to our thoughts they'd seemly be from a different planet. I mean I base that belief off of how they write rules somehow missing glaring issues in power balance that even the most relaxed casual player picks up on within minutes of reading the rules. Yet GW apparently GW play tested them somehow missing these things.

A Game would be one who buy the 2k point list and nothing more

those who buy more than they need to play are both

and those who jus buy without a specific list in mind are collectors

 Azreal13 wrote:
This may not bode well for anyone working in the retail arm. The conceit of their cost being offset by their role as recruitment centres and advertising may attract some fairly serious scrutiny given that GW has broken records with the majority of their retail estate acting as little more than shiny parcel collection points for a good bit of the trading period.

I’d say that’s unlikely. We’ve seen efforts to get people back into store, such as in-store only perks and offers.

10 paints for the price of 9 (and not the cheapest one free).

Collectors Coins for £60 spends, and the offer of a free collectors album once you’ve got 6.

Store Anniversary Models, which always prove popular.

Not to mention ‘soft’ support, such as tie ins with Scouts and Duke of Edinburgh.

Plus Stores remain the single best way to recruit new people into the hobby. Their staff training centres around exactly that, to ensure, or at least encourage, a consistency of experience.

Of the customers spending right now? I’d say an easy majority started out via in-store recruitment, one way or another.

What is remarkable however (as in genuinely worth remark) is that this has seemingly come without any active upselling. Not “you want a box of Marines, why not an army of *insert latest range here*” as some claim. Just “how are you off for paints, glues and brushes” etc. Simple reminders of what you might need for your current project. See, those are solid, reliable upsells.

Example? My weekend target might be, say, £4,000. And I know from previous weekend I have an average of 150 transactions, spread of Friday-Sunday, typically weighted on a Saturday. And my average transaction value (ATV) hovers around £25.00. With no upselling, I fall short of my target, taking in £3,750. But, if I can add on an average of two paints across each transaction (average mind. Some won’t have any, the next might buy 6 etc)? That takes my ATV to £32.40 - for a total take of £4,860.

See, manny a mickle maks a muckle, as my two Scottish grannies never actually said.

Now, the value of such to GW as a company? At the moment, they’ve got 529 stores globally. If they show the same upselling increase of £1,110? That’s an additional £587,190 in their collective pocket. In a week. If such is continued over a year? £30,533,880 - just from “do you have all the paints you need”.

That is the power of stores, and not something they can really do online. Provide of course I’ve got my sums right, and haven’t gone wonky (never rule this out). And remember, the base figures (ATV etc) are all for demonstrative purposes only.

So in summary? The stores aren’t going anywhere soon. Despite being expensive to run, they’re the difference between GW and their competitors.

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:

 Azreal13 wrote:
This may not bode well for anyone working in the retail arm. The conceit of their cost being offset by their role as recruitment centres and advertising may attract some fairly serious scrutiny given that GW has broken records with the majority of their retail estate acting as little more than shiny parcel collection points for a good bit of the trading period.

See, manny a mickle maks a muckle, as my two Scottish grannies never actually said.

Like my Scottish Grandad said "Och Aye" and often commented "the noo" but never combined them into "Och Aye the noo".


Thing is, GW appear to be a bull headed type company that will willingly do things that make no sense to others.

In the UK, at least, would the nostalgia for the stores that made the company into what it is override a decision based on profit?

Very doubtful.

The stores are a unique selling feature. Part shop, part club, part training centre. Whilst hobbyists don’t rely on the store forever, it’s still their single best recruitment tool.

FLGS? Well, they carry competing lines, and you’re then at the mercy of the owner. If they don’t like your products, or just aren’t naturally sales people? Not so good.

Some FLGS of course do outstrip GW’s own stores, and more power to them. Others however are dingey, well hidden and poorly stocked. With everything in between.

With their own stores, GW can ensure consistency of experience as much as possible.

Plus SKU bloat - many other wargames grow big and then find that whilst customers want a big range of models per army and more factions per game; that bloats your product listings and 3rd party stores - barring the biggest - don't have space to stock everything.

It's why we are steadily seeing more pull blisters and go for the army packs and combined packs. Dystopian Wars (even years back under Spartan Games); Malifau, Infinity, Warmachine/Hordes - all are messing with pulling some individual models and going for multi-packs of various kinds


GW right now only uses multi-packs as sales pushers (duel army packs) and Getting Started sets, part because they have both their own stores and a robust internet service f their own.



Take away the stores and rely on 3rd party and internet only and boom you'd have a big pressure on GW to find ways to drastically lower their rang bloat.

They’ve so far tackled the shelf space challenge with their in-store order points.

Sure, you may not walk out with the goodies there and then, and at the moment there’s a reasonable chance it might be properly out of stock. But those terminals are still a nifty resource. And free shipping to store helps in various ways (everyone likes free postage, and when you’re back in the store, there’s another opportunity to buy stuff)

 Azreal13 wrote:
This may not bode well for anyone working in the retail arm. The conceit of their cost being offset by their role as recruitment centres and advertising may attract some fairly serious scrutiny given that GW has broken records with the majority of their retail estate acting as little more than shiny parcel collection points for a good bit of the trading period.

Haven't GW stores been loss leaders for years now though? And even that I'd question, since I recall plenty of kids with rich parents stacking the tills high with £200+ worth of stuff a week.

I'm pretty sure they make a profit each year according to the numbers at the shareholder meetings.

It's not "as much" as other areas, but it is a profit and directly feeds into other areas in a supportive way (eg high online sales are most likly directly aided by physical store recruitment of new customers

 Arbitrator wrote:

 Azreal13 wrote:
This may not bode well for anyone working in the retail arm. The conceit of their cost being offset by their role as recruitment centres and advertising may attract some fairly serious scrutiny given that GW has broken records with the majority of their retail estate acting as little more than shiny parcel collection points for a good bit of the trading period.

Haven't GW stores been loss leaders for years now though? And even that I'd question, since I recall plenty of kids with rich parents stacking the tills high with £200+ worth of stuff a week.

All stores now profitable, as non-profitable ones they can’t turn round tend to get closed.

Whilst they produce a lesser profit margin, they’re still an integral part to the business plan overall.

or moved to a cheaper location where they can make money

True.

Dunno about other countries, but in the U.K. they prefer just off the high street. Slightly cheaper rent without too much reduction of foot traffic

Here in the US they tend to be located relatively close to popular areas but not in them. For example the Minneapolis store is across the street from one of the major malls (not Mall of America) in a smaller shop strip and my closest here in Dallas is in a giant strip site but isn't in a mall like they used to do.