Switch Theme:

The Indexes Are Coming! The Indexes Are Coming!  [RSS] Share on facebook Share on Twitter Submit to Reddit
»
Author Message
Advert


Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you:
  • No adverts like this in the forums anymore.
  • Times and dates in your local timezone.
  • Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance.
  • Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely.
  • Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net.
If you are already a member then feel free to login now.




Made in gb
Longtime Dakkanaut





 BroodSpawn wrote:
Not Online!!! wrote:
Too little , too late, for an "subfaction" that was always centered around 1 dude basically.

Literally any of the following would've been a better Index type WD release:
Tau Auxilia.
Kroot mercenaries.
Gretchin revolution
Lost and the damned / R&H.
Eclesiarchy (non SoB variant)
Eldar corsairs
Ynnari.
Specific typus of a tyranid subfleet.
Speedcult
Prerelease of WE / EC / both.



As someone with a Heresy DA army that could play as Fallen in 40k can I just add that no, literally none of those would've been better as far as I'm concerned


Assuming GW do something as cool as provide data sheets for using HH minis in 40K. I know there are some existing overlaps but allowing all the DA 30k units to be used for the fallen in 40K? Well why not have all the traitor legions use the FW models and just release an index. I think this would be amazing and it makes sense but I don’t see it happening. There aren’t any wooden spikes on those models
   
Made in ch
Warped Arch Heretic of Chaos





mrFickle wrote:
 BroodSpawn wrote:
Not Online!!! wrote:
Too little , too late, for an "subfaction" that was always centered around 1 dude basically.

Literally any of the following would've been a better Index type WD release:
Tau Auxilia.
Kroot mercenaries.
Gretchin revolution
Lost and the damned / R&H.
Eclesiarchy (non SoB variant)
Eldar corsairs
Ynnari.
Specific typus of a tyranid subfleet.
Speedcult
Prerelease of WE / EC / both.



As someone with a Heresy DA army that could play as Fallen in 40k can I just add that no, literally none of those would've been better as far as I'm concerned


Assuming GW do something as cool as provide data sheets for using HH minis in 40K. I know there are some existing overlaps but allowing all the DA 30k units to be used for the fallen in 40K? Well why not have all the traitor legions use the FW models and just release an index. I think this would be amazing and it makes sense but I don’t see it happening. There aren’t any wooden spikes on those models


it also goes against GW's current design paradigm of chaos marines, in which you right now find the fallen for some unknown reason.
Because according to GW daemonengines are the only thing that exists anymore for CSM, because the rest can't be maintained or some such.
I also don't think that the rules will be particulary interesting, they weren't interesting in vigilus and before or after.
It's also another PA faction, of which we have several that need still an update.
It's also a PA faction despite other factions clearly having also far larger sub groups than them, they are also not an unified faction either.


https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/0/766717.page
A Mostly Renegades and Heretics blog.

 Daedalus81 wrote:

In the 41st millennium there is only overpriced hamberders.

 
   
Made in gb
Longtime Dakkanaut





Not Online!!! wrote:
mrFickle wrote:
 BroodSpawn wrote:
Not Online!!! wrote:
Too little , too late, for an "subfaction" that was always centered around 1 dude basically.

Literally any of the following would've been a better Index type WD release:
Tau Auxilia.
Kroot mercenaries.
Gretchin revolution
Lost and the damned / R&H.
Eclesiarchy (non SoB variant)
Eldar corsairs
Ynnari.
Specific typus of a tyranid subfleet.
Speedcult
Prerelease of WE / EC / both.



As someone with a Heresy DA army that could play as Fallen in 40k can I just add that no, literally none of those would've been better as far as I'm concerned


Assuming GW do something as cool as provide data sheets for using HH minis in 40K. I know there are some existing overlaps but allowing all the DA 30k units to be used for the fallen in 40K? Well why not have all the traitor legions use the FW models and just release an index. I think this would be amazing and it makes sense but I don’t see it happening. There aren’t any wooden spikes on those models


it also goes against GW's current design paradigm of chaos marines, in which you right now find the fallen for some unknown reason.
Because according to GW daemonengines are the only thing that exists anymore for CSM, because the rest can't be maintained or some such.
I also don't think that the rules will be particulary interesting, they weren't interesting in vigilus and before or after.
It's also another PA faction, of which we have several that need still an update.
It's also a PA faction despite other factions clearly having also far larger sub groups than them, they are also not an unified faction either.



Codex CSM on really properly describes the black legion and the rest of the traitor legions are shoe horned in. The fact that DG and TS have their own codexes with different models proves this. It’s just that GW has bothered to make codexes for more legions but knows we want to play them.

Fallen don’t fit in any codex so this means that this index will either be really interested or just more of the same. Which would be a shame seeing as GW is really trying to focus on enabling narrative play.

Of course they could come out and add some more fluff that states that over the last 10k years cypher has located most of the fallen and they have gone through some level of mutation but that means they have been hiding in the eye of terror.

But then wasn’t cypher presented as a dark hero recently, part of saving the imperium from the great rift?
   
Made in us
Fixture of Dakka





Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
 Daedalus81 wrote:
Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
LOL you're not serious are you?


It isn't even worth my time to engage with you. "LOL"

Well don't make obviously unfounded statements that have no basis in reality. World Eaters are bad, just not Word Bearers bad. You can do a better Khorne army with Alpha Legion.


Sorry, I'm pretty much done with you. You post in bad faith so often it isn't even worth my time.

   
Made in us
Monster-Slaying Daemonhunter




Can GW get their head out of their ass for 1 month and just release something proper? Half the codexes in the game are either unannounced, or unreleased. Multiple factions are currently waiting for Game wide buffs (wounds, Melta, Flamer) But sure, instead of upgrading all CSM to 2/3 wounds, lets give an obscure and worthless sub faction a update. Great. Now next week maybe we can update the Euclidian Star striders, or the Ratlings, or the Blackstone Fortress units!!
   
Made in ch
Warped Arch Heretic of Chaos





FezzikDaBullgryn wrote:
Can GW get their head out of their ass for 1 month and just release something proper? Half the codexes in the game are either unannounced, or unreleased. Multiple factions are currently waiting for Game wide buffs (wounds, Melta, Flamer) But sure, instead of upgrading all CSM to 2/3 wounds, lets give an obscure and worthless sub faction a update. Great. Now next week maybe we can update the Euclidian Star striders, or the Ratlings, or the Blackstone Fortress units!!

the chaos units of the blackstone fortress once were a propper working faction and actually quite relevant in the 40k context.

https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/0/766717.page
A Mostly Renegades and Heretics blog.

 Daedalus81 wrote:

In the 41st millennium there is only overpriced hamberders.

 
   
Made in de
Dakka Veteran




FezzikDaBullgryn wrote:
Can GW get their head out of their ass for 1 month and just release something proper? Half the codexes in the game are either unannounced, or unreleased. Multiple factions are currently waiting for Game wide buffs (wounds, Melta, Flamer) But sure, instead of upgrading all CSM to 2/3 wounds, lets give an obscure and worthless sub faction a update. Great. Now next week maybe we can update the Euclidian Star striders, or the Ratlings, or the Blackstone Fortress units!!


The White Dwarf is exactly the right place to release fluff (certainly) and rules (remains to be seen) for obscure and niche sub factions.
We don't get Fallen instead of Chaos Marines, we get them in addition.

What is something proper in your eyes? Maybe a Xenos faction like Dark Eldar this month? Or maybe a Chaos faction like Death Guard in January?

You sound a lot like you make yourself tushy troubled over this topic, when it's really not worth the emotion.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/04/27 15:06:04


 
   
Made in us
Decrepit Dakkanaut




 Daedalus81 wrote:
Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
 Daedalus81 wrote:
Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
LOL you're not serious are you?


It isn't even worth my time to engage with you. "LOL"

Well don't make obviously unfounded statements that have no basis in reality. World Eaters are bad, just not Word Bearers bad. You can do a better Khorne army with Alpha Legion.


Sorry, I'm pretty much done with you. You post in bad faith so often it isn't even worth my time.

What's bad faith here? You're literally the only person that has defended bad armies. Quite frankly I wouldn't be shocked if you had posts defending Genestealer Cults. World Eaters are bad, so why is it hard to admit that?

CaptainStabby wrote:
If Tyberos falls and needs to catch himself it's because the ground needed killing.

 jy2 wrote:
BTW, I can't wait to run Double-D-thirsters! Man, just thinking about it gets me Khorney.

 vipoid wrote:
Indeed - what sort of bastard would want to use their codex?

 MarsNZ wrote:
ITT: SoB players upset that they're receiving the same condescending treatment that they've doled out in every CSM thread ever.
 
   
Made in us
Painlord Titan Princeps of Slaanesh




The White Dwarf, IMHO, is never the right place to release new rules. Not everyone has access to a copy so not everyone would be aware of a rules change. Rule changes should be made in FAQs and/or Errata.
   
Made in gb
Longtime Dakkanaut





Leo_the_Rat wrote:
The White Dwarf, IMHO, is never the right place to release new rules. Not everyone has access to a copy so not everyone would be aware of a rules change. Rule changes should be made in FAQs and/or Errata.


You can buy digital copies. My question is will these rules be added to the app, if not how do you get them retrospectively. Which backs up your point about not releasing them in a magazine.
   
Made in us
Monster-Slaying Daemonhunter




I'm sick of having Rules sets spread over 6 different; albeit purchasable, sources, when I buy an entire book dedicated to the fething rules of my faction in the first place. FAQs, codexes, sub codexes, campaign books, White dwarf issues, and CA books. It's too much.
   
Made in us
Fixture of Dakka





Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
What's bad faith here? You're literally the only person that has defended bad armies. Quite frankly I wouldn't be shocked if you had posts defending Genestealer Cults. World Eaters are bad, so why is it hard to admit that?


Not worth my time. You're right - everyone else is wrong. There's no room to have a discussion. I get it.

If I cared I'd put up a list on TTS, but right now I need to practice with Necrons for a tournament.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/04/27 16:24:26


   
Made in gb
Thinking of Joining a Davinite Loge





FezzikDaBullgryn wrote:
I'm sick of having Rules sets spread over 6 different; albeit purchasable, sources, when I buy an entire book dedicated to the fething rules of my faction in the first place. FAQs, codexes, sub codexes, campaign books, White dwarf issues, and CA books. It's too much.

So let's say you play Space Marines, you have the generic Codex and now a suppledex to go on top of that. All of the Chapters with GW minis, note I specify GW, have their rules in the generic codex and further rules in their suppledexes. Thus far the only Chapters that got Index Astartes rules are the Flesh Tearers, which got bundled into the Blood Angels book, the Exorcists, a very minor Chapter that has been confirmed as Dorn's lineage and may well be bundled into the Fists suppledex, and the Blood Ravens, who only have Angelos and their rules are in the FW index.
So if you are playing any Space Marine Chapter you need the generic codex and the supplement OR a WD. That's it. Unless you intend to play literally every single Chapter there is but at that point that's your choice and not GW's fault.
As for the stuff in Charadon. You can play all of those armies without the stuff in that book, 90% of your rules content is in the codex. This isn't 6th edition Orks where anything released after 4th edition had rules in a WD i.e. the first three planes, the Gork/Morkanauts and possibly the Flash Gitz.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/04/27 16:50:52


 
   
Made in us
Monster-Slaying Daemonhunter




Ok, but that's a straw man. I am not playing one of the blessed factions that has a 9th ed codex, like most of the player base I am still on 8th, which means FAQs, Spider War, CAs, and WD issues.
   
Made in us
Decrepit Dakkanaut




 Daedalus81 wrote:
Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
What's bad faith here? You're literally the only person that has defended bad armies. Quite frankly I wouldn't be shocked if you had posts defending Genestealer Cults. World Eaters are bad, so why is it hard to admit that?


Not worth my time. You're right - everyone else is wrong. There's no room to have a discussion. I get it.

If I cared I'd put up a list on TTS, but right now I need to practice with Necrons for a tournament.


LOL who is this "everyone else" defending World Eaters? Please show me.

CaptainStabby wrote:
If Tyberos falls and needs to catch himself it's because the ground needed killing.

 jy2 wrote:
BTW, I can't wait to run Double-D-thirsters! Man, just thinking about it gets me Khorney.

 vipoid wrote:
Indeed - what sort of bastard would want to use their codex?

 MarsNZ wrote:
ITT: SoB players upset that they're receiving the same condescending treatment that they've doled out in every CSM thread ever.
 
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut




NE Ohio, USA

Not Online!!! wrote:
Too little , too late, for an "subfaction" that was always centered around 1 dude basically.

Literally any of the following would've been a better Index type WD release:
Tau Auxilia.
Kroot mercenaries.
Gretchin revolution
Lost and the damned / R&H.
Eclesiarchy (non SoB variant)
Eldar corsairs
Ynnari.
Specific typus of a tyranid subfleet.
Speedcult
Prerelease of WE / EC / both.



Well, I guess it's a good thing that WD will need something to fill those pages next month, the month after that, and so on....
   
Made in us
Fixture of Dakka





Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
LOL who is this "everyone else" defending World Eaters? Please show me.


I'm talking about most of your posts in general. No one is talking about WE, because blowhards would come in and murder the discussion.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/04/27 17:10:30


   
Made in gb
Thinking of Joining a Davinite Loge





FezzikDaBullgryn wrote:
Ok, but that's a straw man. I am not playing one of the blessed factions that has a 9th ed codex, like most of the player base I am still on 8th, which means FAQs, Spider War, CAs, and WD issues.

If you're playing an army that hasn't been updated to a 9th codex then that's just how it is right now and the situation doesn't apply to the 9th edition armies. If you were playing a 9th ed army and had to buy a codex, suppledex, WD, and a campaign book to use all your faction rules then sure I could sympathise. I do want to know what army you play however because in my experience no army has needed all of those for access to all its possible rules.
Also, everyone has FAQ's. Try playing 30k where there hasn't been an FAQ for 90% of the game for two years.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/04/27 17:43:21


 
   
Made in us
Second Story Man





Astonished of Heck

Not Online!!! wrote:
Too little , too late, for an "subfaction" that was always centered around 1 dude basically.

While I can't disagree that there are more forces that could use some addressing, The Fallen had more models out than Citadel had for Sisters of Silence or Custodes had at the beginning of 7th Ed.

So 1 model isn't as tiny a block as one might think.

Are you a Wolf, a Sheep, or a Hound?
Megavolt wrote:They called me crazy…they called me insane…THEY CALLED ME LOONEY!! and boy, were they right.
 
   
Made in dk
Khorne Veteran Marine with Chain-Axe






 Daedalus81 wrote:
Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
LOL who is this "everyone else" defending World Eaters? Please show me.


I'm talking about most of your posts in general. No one is talking about WE, because blowhards would come in and murder the discussion.


I am actually

6000 World Eaters/Khorne  
   
Made in us
Omnipotent Necron Overlord






FezzikDaBullgryn wrote:
Can GW get their head out of their ass for 1 month and just release something proper? Half the codexes in the game are either unannounced, or unreleased. Multiple factions are currently waiting for Game wide buffs (wounds, Melta, Flamer) But sure, instead of upgrading all CSM to 2/3 wounds, lets give an obscure and worthless sub faction a update. Great. Now next week maybe we can update the Euclidian Star striders, or the Ratlings, or the Blackstone Fortress units!!

Yep - In total agreement. Then again - All the codex should be released at one or within a short period and pretty much everyone would agree with that too. This is just a bad business model made by bad business people.

If we fail to anticipate the unforeseen or expect the unexpected in a universe of infinite possibilities, we may find ourselves at the mercy of anyone or anything that cannot be programmed, categorized or easily referenced.
- Fox Mulder 
   
Made in gb
Thinking of Joining a Davinite Loge





Considering GW does model releases alongside Codex updates, releasing all the Codexes at the same time would be a hilariously bad idea. You don't release all your product at the same time just so the game your models are used in is "balanced", that's some seriously stupid business practice. At the same time, an FAQ would be a huge task for 30+ codexes plus the BRB. Customer anticipation and constant releases keep the business generating constant money, which is what businesses are designed to do. If you're releasing for 1 or 2 months out of 12 and your competitor is releasing for 12 you've made a serious blunder and the board/investors/shareholders are not gonna be happy with the lack of revenue.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/04/27 18:03:00


 
   
Made in gb
Grim Dark Angels Interrogator-Chaplain





Cardiff

Is it known there will be rules and not just fluff?

 Stormonu wrote:
For me, the joy is in putting some good-looking models on the board and playing out a fantasy battle - not arguing over the poorly-made rules of some 3rd party who neither has any power over my play nor will be visiting me (and my opponent) to ensure we are "playing by the rules"
 
   
Made in gb
Thinking of Joining a Davinite Loge





The Index Astartes came with Chapter Tactics, a Relic or two, and some strategems. It was mostly lore and people showing off how much better they are at painting and converting than everyone else.
   
Made in us
Fixture of Dakka





 JohnnyHell wrote:
Is it known there will be rules and not just fluff?


It is unknown. September 2019 did feature DA in the art and had an index that wasn't much to fuss about.

   
Made in gb
Nurgle Predator Driver with an Infestation




I'd be amazed if they didn't throw a strategem or two in there but little more than that. A list of lore appropriate units that can take the FALLEN keyword from Codex Chaos Space Marines and possibly Codex Space Marines too would be as much as we can hope regarding new units etc I'd say but that would be pretty good.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/04/27 18:10:05


 
   
Made in us
Omnipotent Necron Overlord






 Gert wrote:
Considering GW does model releases alongside Codex updates, releasing all the Codexes at the same time would be a hilariously bad idea. You don't release all your product at the same time just so the game your models are used in is "balanced", that's some seriously stupid business practice. At the same time, an FAQ would be a huge task for 30+ codexes plus the BRB. Customer anticipation and constant releases keep the business generating constant money, which is what businesses are designed to do. If you're releasing for 1 or 2 months out of 12 and your competitor is releasing for 12 you've made a serious blunder and the board/investors/shareholders are not gonna be happy with the lack of revenue.

The people are going to buy the stuff anyways. Warhammer is more like selling drugs than any other kind of product because it is a literal mental addiction people have to this hobby. They will buy at all times. It would be a hilariously good idea as we would finally have a chance at having a balanced game. Want to generate buzz to sell more product? Just come out with a campaign supplement like PA . Models don't need to come out all at once...just the codex. Models generate their own buzz. It would increase their sales. How many people right now aren't buying CSM because they don't know what models to buy because they have no rules? They are losing money. There is no doubt about it.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Dai wrote:
I'd be amazed if they didn't throw a strategem or two in there but little more than that. A list of lore appropriate units that can take the FALLEN keyword from Codex Chaos Space Marines and possibly Codex Space Marines too would be as much as we can hope regarding new units etc I'd say but that would be pretty good.
Fallen literally don't matter and maybe 1 in 1000 players has any interest in such an absurd faction.

CSM on the other hand is probably the 2nd most popular faction in the game behind space marines. Priorities are completely screwed by GW right now.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/04/27 18:30:41


If we fail to anticipate the unforeseen or expect the unexpected in a universe of infinite possibilities, we may find ourselves at the mercy of anyone or anything that cannot be programmed, categorized or easily referenced.
- Fox Mulder 
   
Made in gb
Nurgle Predator Driver with an Infestation




No real argument here, I had a Fallen army once. It was just Chaos Space Marines painted like Dark Angels and I was happy enough!
   
Made in us
Decrepit Dakkanaut




 Brutallica wrote:
 Daedalus81 wrote:
Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
LOL who is this "everyone else" defending World Eaters? Please show me.


I'm talking about most of your posts in general. No one is talking about WE, because blowhards would come in and murder the discussion.


I am actually

Well don't bother. Use Alpha Legion rules for all your troops and enjoy the total flexibility of actually getting them places, and if you really want just take the HQ detachment for World Eater HQs.

CaptainStabby wrote:
If Tyberos falls and needs to catch himself it's because the ground needed killing.

 jy2 wrote:
BTW, I can't wait to run Double-D-thirsters! Man, just thinking about it gets me Khorney.

 vipoid wrote:
Indeed - what sort of bastard would want to use their codex?

 MarsNZ wrote:
ITT: SoB players upset that they're receiving the same condescending treatment that they've doled out in every CSM thread ever.
 
   
Made in us
Daemonic Dreadnought




The dark hollows of Kentucky

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
 Brutallica wrote:
 Daedalus81 wrote:
Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
LOL who is this "everyone else" defending World Eaters? Please show me.


I'm talking about most of your posts in general. No one is talking about WE, because blowhards would come in and murder the discussion.


I am actually

Well don't bother. Use Alpha Legion rules for all your troops and enjoy the total flexibility of actually getting them places, and if you really want just take the HQ detachment for World Eater HQs.

What "HQ detachment"?
   
 
Forum Index » 40K General Discussion
Go to: