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2021/07/10 08:09:31
Subject: Warning, no paint exports from UK to Spain or Germany
Thargrim wrote: Funny enough i've bought mixers for alcoholic drinks in California that contain titanium dioxide, i've literally drank that stuff. It gives a white pigment to pina colada mixers.
No surprises here. It’s still used as a food colorant. There’s only a concern with inhaling TiO2 powder, not with swallowing the stuff.
2021/07/10 08:31:36
Subject: Warning, no paint exports from UK to Spain or Germany
Thargrim wrote: Funny enough i've bought mixers for alcoholic drinks in California that contain titanium dioxide, i've literally drank that stuff. It gives a white pigment to pina colada mixers.
No surprises here. It’s still used as a food colorant. There’s only a concern with inhaling TiO2 powder, not with swallowing the stuff.
It's not considered unsafe yet, but evidence seems to be growing and it's currently being assessed...
Prof Maged Younes, Chair of EFSA’s expert Panel on Food Additives and Flavourings (FAF), said: “Taking into account all available scientific studies and data, the Panel concluded that titanium dioxide can no longer be considered safe as a food additive. A critical element in reaching this conclusion is that we could not exclude genotoxicity concerns after consumption of titanium dioxide particles. After oral ingestion, the absorption of titanium dioxide particles is low, however they can accumulate in the body”.
<snip>
Genotoxicity refers to the ability of a chemical substance to damage DNA, the genetic material of cells. As genotoxicity may lead to carcinogenic effects, it is essential to assess the potential genotoxic effect of a substance to conclude on its safety.
Prof Matthew Wright, both a member of the FAF Panel and chair of EFSA’s working group on E 171, said: “Although the evidence for general toxic effects was not conclusive, on the basis of the new data and strengthened methods we could not rule out a concern for genotoxicity and consequently we could not establish a safe level for daily intake of the food additive.”
2021/07/10 08:32:15
Subject: Warning, no paint exports from UK to Spain or Germany
Kid_Kyoto wrote: But why just Germany and Spain? Why not the whole EU?
Going by stuff that's been popping up in recent months, it's most likely because previously the UK would have been covered by EU regulations on ingredients for those products, allowing an existing restriction in those countries to be waived, and now that they're not part of the EU they run afoul of a blanket ban. This has been an issue for various products.
I think that is probably the case, UK is not part of the EU and treated as most countries outside the EU with more scrutiny regarding standards etc.
I've actually been struggling to restock on a particular brand of spray paint from DIY shops. Bauhaus and the like are all out of the same thing at the same time... related?
The old meta is dead and the new meta struggles to be born. Now is the time of munchkins.
2021/07/10 08:52:12
Subject: Warning, no paint exports from UK to Spain or Germany
Kid_Kyoto wrote: But why just Germany and Spain? Why not the whole EU?
Going by stuff that's been popping up in recent months, it's most likely because previously the UK would have been covered by EU regulations on ingredients for those products, allowing an existing restriction in those countries to be waived, and now that they're not part of the EU they run afoul of a blanket ban. This has been an issue for various products.
I think that is probably the case, UK is not part of the EU and treated as most countries outside the EU with more scrutiny regarding standards etc.
Except that if this were so the UK would face a blanket import ban rather than a national specific one.
We need to look at the facts.
Germany and Spain have applied restrictions the EU as a whole have not. Therefore:
1. EU dictat has mandated restrictions loosely and two countries are ahead of the rest with regards to implementation.
or
2. They just decided to act for third party reasons.
Now implementation of regulations in the EU is oftimes lobsided. There were historic cases of companies being fined in one country for non implementation while other member states had not implemented. This has happened many times regarding food standards. Whether one gets away with non-implementation depends on which member state you are. By and large Germany directly and swiftly obeys recommended policy.
Could this account for a regional ban in the EU. Maybe?
As for Spain, yes wargaming paints is a small industry, but don't underestimate large scale political moves for the benefit of small industries, especially recently. This one might not have a song and dance attached to it but it could well be there.
I could mention examples of both above scenarios, but with respect to forum rules will not do so. However lobsided implementation of EU dictat should not require much searching, and top down political wrangling over small industries will not either.
n'oublie jamais - It appears I now have to highlight this again.
It is by tea alone I set my mind in motion. By the juice of the brew my thoughts aquire speed, my mind becomes strained, the strain becomes a warning. It is by tea alone I set my mind in motion.
2021/07/10 09:16:03
Subject: Warning, no paint exports from UK to Spain or Germany
Except that if this were so the UK would face a blanket import ban rather than a national specific one.
.
They wouldn't face an EU-wide ban if it's only those two countries that have the restriction on these products.
The point I was making was that given there don't appear to have been any regulation changes, it's likely that this restriction has always been on place, but other EU countries had an exemption.
Because the UK is no longer in the EU, the restriction now applies. It's the UK's status as a free trade partner that has changed, not the import laws for those two countries.
2021/07/10 09:20:42
Subject: Warning, no paint exports from UK to Spain or Germany
Your "whole eu ban" argument only makes sense if you believe all state members act exactly the same at the same time which is not the case.
New laws or in this case the discovery of potentially armful ingredient will be cascaded down to the state members but will only take effect depending on internal political agendas, timing etc. Even if all are part of the EU this is not a case of an hive mind XD with immediate effect. Never was.
Its quite a complex synergy and negotiations between countries own interests and general EU guidelines and quite simplistic to think its not.
As for war-gaming industry I can tell you from experience that in some countries in the EU, wargaming is NON existent and no one knows what you are talking about, much less politics or regulators. Theres no conflict of interests or industry to defend its just not a thing.
EU standards are to be respected if you want to trade with the EU, simples.
So I'm trying to see what changes, if any, have been made in legislation and export tariffs lately regarding HS Code Chapter 32 (which apparently is the indicated above), and from what I can see, the last piece of legislation is of 2014, and basically states that importing pigments, dyes, etc. ob the above chapter are regulated and taxed for standard import fees.
Other than that, it refers to the European Chemicals Agency (ECHA)... organization the UK has just parted from.
So... yeah. Do we have any actual source for this, preferably with references and the like? Because from here it seems like someone decided it was too much fuss and got out of dodge.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2021/07/10 11:14:10
2021/07/10 21:47:29
Subject: Warning, no paint exports from UK to Spain or Germany
Thargrim wrote: Funny enough i've bought mixers for alcoholic drinks in California that contain titanium dioxide, i've literally drank that stuff. It gives a white pigment to pina colada mixers.
No surprises here. It’s still used as a food colorant. There’s only a concern with inhaling TiO2 powder, not with swallowing the stuff.
It's not considered unsafe yet, but evidence seems to be growing and it's currently being assessed...
Prof Maged Younes, Chair of EFSA’s expert Panel on Food Additives and Flavourings (FAF), said: “Taking into account all available scientific studies and data, the Panel concluded that titanium dioxide can no longer be considered safe as a food additive. A critical element in reaching this conclusion is that we could not exclude genotoxicity concerns after consumption of titanium dioxide particles. After oral ingestion, the absorption of titanium dioxide particles is low, however they can accumulate in the body”.
<snip>
Genotoxicity refers to the ability of a chemical substance to damage DNA, the genetic material of cells. As genotoxicity may lead to carcinogenic effects, it is essential to assess the potential genotoxic effect of a substance to conclude on its safety.
Prof Matthew Wright, both a member of the FAF Panel and chair of EFSA’s working group on E 171, said: “Although the evidence for general toxic effects was not conclusive, on the basis of the new data and strengthened methods we could not rule out a concern for genotoxicity and consequently we could not establish a safe level for daily intake of the food additive.”
Cool, I‘ve learnt something new. Thanks!
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2021/07/10 21:51:15
2021/07/11 15:00:46
Subject: Warning, no paint exports from UK to Spain or Germany
Albertorius wrote: So I'm trying to see what changes, if any, have been made in legislation and export tariffs lately regarding HS Code Chapter 32 (which apparently is the indicated above), and from what I can see, the last piece of legislation is of 2014, and basically states that importing pigments, dyes, etc. ob the above chapter are regulated and taxed for standard import fees.
Other than that, it refers to the European Chemicals Agency (ECHA)... organization the UK has just parted from.
So... yeah. Do we have any actual source for this, preferably with references and the like? Because from here it seems like someone decided it was too much fuss and got out of dodge.
I was in the same boat the day this thread was created, couldn't find anything either to do with the product or even confirming whether it was a blanket ban, specific to the UK/non EU countries or anything. Given the sensitivity to anything of this type from certain sectors of the UK press, one would assume there'd be a rant published somewhere by now.
Outside of this one piece of info? Tumbleweed.
We find comfort among those who agree with us - growth among those who don't. - Frank Howard Clark
The wise man doubts often, and changes his mind; the fool is obstinate, and doubts not; he knows all things but his own ignorance.
The correct statement of individual rights is that everyone has the right to an opinion, but crucially, that opinion can be roundly ignored and even made fun of, particularly if it is demonstrably nonsense!” Professor Brian Cox
Kid_Kyoto wrote: But why just Germany and Spain? Why not the whole EU?
Going by stuff that's been popping up in recent months, it's most likely because previously the UK would have been covered by EU regulations on ingredients for those products, allowing an existing restriction in those countries to be waived, and now that they're not part of the EU they run afoul of a blanket ban. This has been an issue for various products.
I think that is probably the case, UK is not part of the EU and treated as most countries outside the EU with more scrutiny regarding standards etc.
Considering the opinions of things like science and data among the current leaders of Britain, more scrutiny is probably warranted
