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Made in gb
Highlord of Terra






Adrift within the vortex of my imagination.

Nice to see this, thank you. I think this model needs an underdeck armature.

From the image it may be possible to keep the quarterdeck separate and model the aft section below deck.

If I am reading this right the main deck is false under the quarterdeck. On sloops and some earlier ships the decks are at split level with the stern decks being at half height above/below the adjoining decks. This does mean multiple smaller stairs.

Therei s an openable door so we can capitalise on that and cut away the rear section of the main deck under the quarter decks and reset it at the base of the model. Then model in a side hatch leading forward to the hold. The forward has the main deck leading straight down to the orlop deck and this cannot be modelled with a waterline kit. But you could make a great cabin for your sloop.

I wonder if the model includes a variant with a single flat deck and no split level elevated quarterdeck. This would explain the wood texture on the whole deck.

Piece 8 might include a significant elevation as there is no separate piece to cover the arch of piece 9.

Sophie is as long as three plastic sloops.
Hull length at waterline being the usual measure.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 pancakeonions wrote:
Super stoked about that Blood and Plunder starter set, all in HIPS! Maybe the two sloops could give Sophie a run for her money?

Unlikely


Not likely at all. Even if they tried to pull the same stunt as Cochrane they are just too small. HMS Speedy was a brig-sloop, very different though still a small vessel. These sloops could get under Sophie's guns, literally, but could they do any damage when there? Cochrane boarded and won at 4:1 odds against, but even he, or Nelson, would more than struggle against 20:1.

Sloops were common pirate vessels, and too light to be hunted down efficiently. However frigates are fast ships, faster than sloops against most wind directions. In a pirate campaign you have a sloop, fight other sloops and merchantmen, and if you stay in one place too long Sophie turns up for a boss battle. Which generally means 'it is too late, you should have moved on'. The sloops are frankly more useful than Sophie for miniatures gaming which while a good base for a pirate themed campaign needs other big ships to fight.

What you could do is have the PC's on Sophie yet depict actual battles at a completely different ship scale, so you can have anything from cutters to 1st rates floating about, while the adventurers command a 5th/6th rate, which is about right for a heroic adventuring captain and crew.

However if you have a Sophie and two sloops on the way, what next to consider? I would be looking at a brig next. Maybe a plastic brig is just over the horizon, it would be a logical next step. Do both of those and anything else would be a luxury you don't really need to depict at 28mm.
You could use the gundeck as a stand in for the main deck of a fat merchantman to take as prizes with your sloops. Beyond brigs and merchantmen there is nothing you need to depict in 28mm. If fighting from Sophie against anything that is a challenge to her you need to depict the battle in multiple scales with only the home side depicted in individual or small crew scale, and all OPTOR being ship models facing against your frigate token and whatever allies she has around.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/07/30 23:26:54


n'oublie jamais - It appears I now have to highlight this again.

It is by tea alone I set my mind in motion. By the juice of the brew my thoughts aquire speed, my mind becomes strained, the strain becomes a warning. It is by tea alone I set my mind in motion. 
   
Made in de
Osprey Reader






Sophie could be run undergunned, not unreasonable considering you have suggested she is an older ship refitted, and as a also under crewed merchant trying to save on wages, perhaps a decent target for a pair of sloops.

Or perhaps a well gunned ship but crippled on a sandbank like Blackbeard’s flagship was.

Or a Royal Navy 5th Rate caught at anchor in a tight harbor with too many crew on shore leave.

Or a privateer in the middle of sacking a port with only a skeleton crew aboard.

Or a captured ship sailing home with a limited prize crew and a bunch of prisoners on board willing to fight for those brave enough to try to free them.

Lots of opportunities to even the odds between Sophie’s Revenge and some smaller ships.

But yeah, eventually I would like to get something equal, or close to equal to Sophie’s Revenge, to playtime part of her nemesis.

Edit: I have a copy of the Black Seas rulebook that I have considering using as you have suggested for running the ship to ship fights largely with then use the 28mm ships more for boarding and RP.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/07/31 10:19:20


Rick, the Grumpy Gnome

https://thegrumpygnome.home.blog/ 
   
Made in gb
Highlord of Terra






Adrift within the vortex of my imagination.

 Grumpy Gnome wrote:
Sophie could be run undergunned, ....... perhaps a decent target for a pair of sloops.
Or perhaps a well gunned ship but crippled on a sandbank like Blackbeard’s flagship was.
Or a Royal Navy 5th Rate caught at anchor in a tight harbor with too many crew on shore leave.
Or a privateer in the middle of sacking a port with only a skeleton crew aboard.


Indeed Grumpy Gnome, there are many ways to even up a scenario. I was just taking the ships at face value.

 Grumpy Gnome wrote:

not unreasonable considering you have suggested she is an older ship refitted, and as a also under crewed merchant trying to save on wages,


Sophie being a refitted older ship is based on three factors, her exact armament, her general architecture and her stern architecture.
The design is reasonable, if we allow for standard features omitted from the model but presumed to be present, but in my opinion somewhat ahistorical. What gives her away is the late 18th century prow design versus the presence of a stern balcony and general architecture reminiscent of 17th and even 16th century ship design.
I do not consider this a problem frankly. Age of Sail ships had a slow evolution in design and I shouldn't have to go far to find a real ship that looked somewhat like Sophie.

Older is a relative term as the classic Age of Piracy is centered at the late 17th century, with the Age of Privateers being a century earlier. Wheras when we look at ahistorical naval vessels they are nominally rated according to that late 18th century/Nelsonic Era, which is the high point of the Age of Sail with regards to fleet action.


 Grumpy Gnome wrote:

But yeah, eventually I would like to get something equal, or close to equal to Sophie’s Revenge, to playtime part of her nemesis.


A second Sophie will set you back $125 plus taxes. That is still a bargain. I am strongly tempted. I will then mod the second vessel heavily. One option is to scratch build a deck extension to turn one into a 4th Rate. Would be a tad short, but not excessively so. 4th Rates usually ran at about 145' by 40', about 10% bigger, excluding height. In any case will be waiting for the inevitable .stl mods for this vessel. The optimum answer will be to have the additional deck as a fully removable, so I would have two 5th/6th Rates with option to upgrade one to a 4th.
Sadly nobody else is making anything comperable, unless you go backwards and select a galleon, or pick up the Viking Carpenter 'ship of the line' which is an obsolete/17th century two deck frigate.

 Grumpy Gnome wrote:

Edit: I have a copy of the Black Seas rulebook that I have considering using as you have suggested for running the ship to ship fights largely with then use the 28mm ships more for boarding and RP.


There are lot of options for Age of Sail vessels at 1:600 or smaller scale.

In all honesty all else you need at this point (Sophie and a pair of plastic sloops) at 28mm is a brig. That is the link ship between the sloop and frigate sized vessels. I only recommend a second Sophie because the price is so ridiculously good still.

If you want an earlier period, or fantasy, go back rather than forwards, so Sophie is ultra modern rather than an obsolescent, and pick up a galleon. There are a surprisngly large number of options available.




n'oublie jamais - It appears I now have to highlight this again.

It is by tea alone I set my mind in motion. By the juice of the brew my thoughts aquire speed, my mind becomes strained, the strain becomes a warning. It is by tea alone I set my mind in motion. 
   
Made in us
Nimble Pistolier




Baltimore, MD USA

They are out of print now, and the company out of business , but if you can find them, the Renaissance games ships were nice, and their largest one (a frigate) is not that smaller than Sophie.

https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/renaissanceminiature/ships-pirates-and-wildwest-terrain-for-28mm-gamers

HMS Surprise (and the Esperanza):

"This is our "flagship" model. Having a 33" long frigate on your gaming table makes an imposing statement! This model is a true representation of the historical HMS Surprise - and just like the ship that was described in the Master & Commander books, and the historically accurate movie. HMS Surprise had a long and fascinating career, starting out as a French ship, captured as a prize and seeing long service in the British Navy.

The "Esperanza" ('expectation') is identical to the Surprise, but with red paintwork (where Surprise is yellow) and black sails.

You can pull out the masts and remove the upper deck. The real Surprise had two below-waterline decks, which we were obviously unable to model so we provide two "2D" maps of the lower decks, gridded into squares with internal walls and stairways etched in place. These slide into an area under the gun deck for storage.

HMS Surprise comes with all 24 cannons, with metal barrels and wooden carriages. The kit also include two Longboats (complete with masts and sails) and a historically accurate structure that fits over Surprises' hold to keep them in position while they were sailing. The longboats come with a detachable lower hull section so they look good both on the water or above water with the entire hull visible."

I have a Surprise I have not assembled yet. The picture above is my "Esperanza"

[Thumb - 33CC9BBB-A68C-4B00-B2A4-82315342E9C3.jpeg]

[Thumb - 6E04BF37-1A4A-4DFA-B884-748A2C9B712B.jpeg]

[Thumb - 8BBA6F4D-8F06-4DF9-9B5A-630D49A541A9.jpeg]

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/08/01 01:37:47


 
   
Made in gb
Highlord of Terra






Adrift within the vortex of my imagination.

Everyone. I have updated the OP with additional information.


Smokestack, I am sure that ship was made with love.


Now to Sophie. My Bones 5 arrived yesterday afternoon and I had patience enough, barely, top keep Sophie boxed up so a friend could help unbox her. Very nice, I do think I will be able to free the hull from the deck but it will be tough and there are sacrifices to make. The vessel was only partly misassembled, one half of the lower hull is 1mm out of true. It is visible but fixable. I suppose I got lucky, it could have been much worse.
I knew the ship was big, but wasn't prepared for what I saw. Pictures do not do her justice. Measures given do not give her justice. Seeing the monster for myself, that does her justice. She is a big ship. Threw some cold water on my dreams for a fleet, but maybe not enough to prevent my buying a second one.

n'oublie jamais - It appears I now have to highlight this again.

It is by tea alone I set my mind in motion. By the juice of the brew my thoughts aquire speed, my mind becomes strained, the strain becomes a warning. It is by tea alone I set my mind in motion. 
   
Made in de
Osprey Reader






Well our Bones V pledge finally arrived.

Sophies Revenge is huge but not so big I think that it will overly dominate a 6x4 table, so Mrs. GG and I are really pleased with that. However, I am a bit disappointed that the walls are connected to the upper decks rather than the lower decks.

Rick, the Grumpy Gnome

https://thegrumpygnome.home.blog/ 
   
Made in gb
Highlord of Terra






Adrift within the vortex of my imagination.

Worth the wait Grumpy.
I have taken a long look at deck separation and think it can be done, but it is a big task. Consequently it has been put off in favour of many other Bones related builds and painting.
Sophie was a must buy for salt insurance, which is a weird purchase psychology but does work, and I do not regret the spend. However I will likely wait for my plastic sloops before delving into 28mm age of sail properly.

n'oublie jamais - It appears I now have to highlight this again.

It is by tea alone I set my mind in motion. By the juice of the brew my thoughts aquire speed, my mind becomes strained, the strain becomes a warning. It is by tea alone I set my mind in motion. 
   
Made in de
Osprey Reader






We are in agreement mate.

Mrs. GG is skeptical of my idea to use a hot water bath to sort out the warping on the ship but I remain optimistic. I am not prepared at this stage to glue the decks together to deal with the warping but it may eventually come to that, at least for the gun deck.

Rick, the Grumpy Gnome

https://thegrumpygnome.home.blog/ 
   
Made in gb
Highlord of Terra






Adrift within the vortex of my imagination.

I am skeptical too, if you cut free the decks from the hull, excepting the waterline timbers, you will have more manageable sections to heat and reset.

n'oublie jamais - It appears I now have to highlight this again.

It is by tea alone I set my mind in motion. By the juice of the brew my thoughts aquire speed, my mind becomes strained, the strain becomes a warning. It is by tea alone I set my mind in motion. 
   
Made in de
Osprey Reader






The little sloop is quite a nice kit. Lots of great details. Might make a nice gunboat. I see this doing well in retail.

Rick, the Grumpy Gnome

https://thegrumpygnome.home.blog/ 
   
 
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