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Made in es
Regular Dakkanaut




If 40K had realistic logistics every single SM could possible need a supply tail of 100 or even 1000 people to support his active deployment onto the battlefield.
   
Made in ca
Regular Dakkanaut





 Sgt_Smudge wrote:
I think 1000's fine.

As mentioned by Insectum, while there's still less than 1 Astartes per world, not every world is in conflict, and not every conflict warrants the appearance of Space Marines - coupled with how Space Marines are used as a force multiplier, I think that they're fine.

Secondly, I generally just don't take the timeline in the OP at face value, with all those events taking place in 999.M41. I would chalk that up to in-universe bad date-keeping, and out-of-universe GW just pushing everything to being 999.M41.

Thirdly, casualties doesn't mean fatalities, and I tend to regard one of the Space Marines' biggest assets being their recovery and readiness to return to battle. So, many of the "high casualties" reports I see as "yeah, they had to sit out on a battle, but they were back for the next one".

Regarding actual Chapter sizes, I don't think they're much bigger than 1200, and certainly not some of the "they have thousands of reserve aspirants!" - but that's just me. I'm happy suspending my disbelief that 1000 (plus maybe a hundred or so officers, drivers, command squads, etc) are necessary.


Totally agree on the first two, they are supposed to be rather rare even though they are so prominently featured in the lore because that's what sells. And yeah, the timeline is a best guess on the best of days.

That being said, for the third: While you are right in some cases, as I noted previously, some cases they are confirmed dead. For instance on Damnos, it is confirmed that only 40 marines escaped the planet, any that survived but were left behind would have been quickly dispatched by the Necrons. In the Farsight cases I mentioned, they are very clearly dead as well. You also have to consider, these are just the conflicts that we have been told stories about. Astartes are always at war, there would be plenty of skirmishes and battles that aren't universe changing in relevance that we would have no idea about, but would still be eating away at their standing forces.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Vatsetis wrote:
If 40K had realistic logistics every single SM could possible need a supply tail of 100 or even 1000 people to support his active deployment onto the battlefield.


The thing is, while we're not really shown that since it's not exciting, they kind of do.

Their ships have hundreds if not thousands of chapter serfs to maintain their equipment and keep them in fighting shape, so long as they have a supply line to orbit. They don't do any fighting for whatever reason though (unless boarded or some such). So while they have fine logistical support in optimal conditions, they still lack in terms of tactical support.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/07/20 17:52:38


15000 4000 3500 2500 :tyranid: 2500 1000 1000
1000 1000 1000 1000  
   
Made in gb
Lit By the Flames of Prospero






Chapter serfs are often well trained individuals that are vital to a Chapter. It's serfs or servants that maintain their Astartes gear and equipment in many cases which means they'll need to have fairly advanced technical knowledge of Astartes gear like Bolters or Power Armour. You don't waste valuable trained individuals when you know there will be Guard or PDF to soak up bullets.
   
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Longtime Dakkanaut





I would like to read a story from the point of view of a serf in a SM chapter. I bet they are as indoctrinated as the space marines but with very little knowledge of anything beyond their task and I bet it’s a hard life, there must be a good story in there somewhere
   
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Spear of the Emperor does that very thing.
   
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Longtime Dakkanaut





 Gert wrote:
Spear of the Emperor does that very thing.


Thansk
   
Made in ca
Regular Dakkanaut





mrFickle wrote:
I would like to read a story from the point of view of a serf in a SM chapter. I bet they are as indoctrinated as the space marines but with very little knowledge of anything beyond their task and I bet it’s a hard life, there must be a good story in there somewhere


I thought that they were aspirants who couldn't make the cut to be full Space Marines. I remember hearing that somewhere.

15000 4000 3500 2500 :tyranid: 2500 1000 1000
1000 1000 1000 1000  
   
Made in gb
Lit By the Flames of Prospero






Some are. Serfs can be locals who volunteer their services, failed Aspirants given a chance to serve the Chapter, or slaves like with the Carcharadons. Serfs can even be entire families dedicated to serving the Chapter, which is a concept I found quite interesting. Most Chapters treat their Serfs well and it's quite rare that Serfs are regarded as scum or lesser beings, in a negative way I mean.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/07/20 19:05:56


 
   
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Longtime Dakkanaut





Tawnis wrote:
mrFickle wrote:
I would like to read a story from the point of view of a serf in a SM chapter. I bet they are as indoctrinated as the space marines but with very little knowledge of anything beyond their task and I bet it’s a hard life, there must be a good story in there somewhere


I thought that they were aspirants who couldn't make the cut to be full Space Marines. I remember hearing that somewhere.


I thought the selection process for most SM chapters were so tough you basically qualified if you didn’t die, I.e there are no failed aspirants
   
Made in us
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Tawnis wrote:
mrFickle wrote:
I would like to read a story from the point of view of a serf in a SM chapter. I bet they are as indoctrinated as the space marines but with very little knowledge of anything beyond their task and I bet it’s a hard life, there must be a good story in there somewhere


I thought that they were aspirants who couldn't make the cut to be full Space Marines. I remember hearing that somewhere.


It depends on the Chapter.

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I thought that was part of the point of successor chapters, the main one gets too big so some marines form a new one.
Main chapter has to many losses, and some guys who used to run with them come back to bring the numbers up quickly.
Pretty sure there was a chapter in the fluff (badab?) That had the marines split up and sent out to different parent and successor chapters...

   
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Successor Chapters can donate gene-seed and Aspirants to their parent Chapter, we see it with the Chapters of the Blood when the Blood Angels take serious losses after numerous bad campaigns.
As for Badab, the Astral Claws hid the survivors of the Tiger Claws within their ranks and when Huron was refused his Maelstrom Founding he began hording gene-seed and making the Astral Claws larger anyway. When the Badab War began, the Astral Claws had basically reached double Chapter strength.
   
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Longtime Dakkanaut





It's a matter of limiting the influence any one chapter master has.

If the Imperium needs to commit 10,000 space marines they just send ten chapters.
   
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^Bingo.
Horus commanded half the Imperium when he turned. If a Chapter Master could call on two thousand Astartes plus another thousand Auxiliary forces, that would represent a serious threat. It was outright shown during Badab what would happen in such a situation, the Astral Claws never seemed to lose strength and the thousands of mortal soldiers they had meant they could leave the majority of Astartes free to cause serious damage to the Imperial forces.
   
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 Gert wrote:
^Bingo.
Horus commanded half the Imperium when he turned. If a Chapter Master could call on two thousand Astartes plus another thousand Auxiliary forces, that would represent a serious threat. It was outright shown during Badab what would happen in such a situation, the Astral Claws never seemed to lose strength and the thousands of mortal soldiers they had meant they could leave the majority of Astartes free to cause serious damage to the Imperial forces.
It's not just a matter of command structure, though. It's not like Horus gave everyone the official order to be traitors and they all agreed. He managed to recruit half the primarchs to his side and failed with the other half. If he'd been more or less convincing, the heresy would have gone very differently.

Sure, the armies of the Imperium are very fragmented in 40k, but it doesn't change things all that much. To get a million space marines divided into chapters on you side, you need to make a thousand chapter masters loyal to you. To get a hypothetical legion of a million soldiers to obey you, you need to get the command structure on your side. That's potentially just as many officers as those chapter masters. In the end it's the same problem: it's not about how the troops are organized, it's about whether someone's charismatic, cunning, ruthless and/or manipulative enough to pull it off.
   
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Regular Dakkanaut





A.T. wrote:
It's a matter of limiting the influence any one chapter master has.

If the Imperium needs to commit 10,000 space marines they just send ten chapters.


The thing is, most of the actions taken by a company of 100 in the lore, seem like they would actually require many more to be practical, like 1000, especially given the losses many are shown as sustaining.

If they had a constant supply of new marines, then they could afford to do so, however only the greatest conflicts see them deployed in those numbers, like Cadia, Armegeddon, ect. Though in conflicts of that scale, massive planetary invasions with billions upon billions fighting, even 10,000 space marines could only do so much. 100,000, maybe that could tip the scale.

As I said earlier, it would be increasing the numbers of the HH by a 0 as well, meaning that the proportional influence the chapter master would hold would be the same. It would also feel like they do have the power to conquer a world or even a system on their authority (as has been seen in the lore both to good and ill effect) rather than realistically only being a support force. (Which would be fine if that was how they were portrayed in the lore, but that's not the case.)

15000 4000 3500 2500 :tyranid: 2500 1000 1000
1000 1000 1000 1000  
   
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 Tiennos wrote:
 Gert wrote:
^Bingo.
Horus commanded half the Imperium when he turned. If a Chapter Master could call on two thousand Astartes plus another thousand Auxiliary forces, that would represent a serious threat. It was outright shown during Badab what would happen in such a situation, the Astral Claws never seemed to lose strength and the thousands of mortal soldiers they had meant they could leave the majority of Astartes free to cause serious damage to the Imperial forces.
It's not just a matter of command structure, though. It's not like Horus gave everyone the official order to be traitors and they all agreed. He managed to recruit half the primarchs to his side and failed with the other half. If he'd been more or less convincing, the heresy would have gone very differently.

Sure, the armies of the Imperium are very fragmented in 40k, but it doesn't change things all that much. To get a million space marines divided into chapters on you side, you need to make a thousand chapter masters loyal to you. To get a hypothetical legion of a million soldiers to obey you, you need to get the command structure on your side. That's potentially just as many officers as those chapter masters. In the end it's the same problem: it's not about how the troops are organized, it's about whether someone's charismatic, cunning, ruthless and/or manipulative enough to pull it off.


And space marine chapters aren’t under the direct military control of the imperium, it’s more a sort of pact or treaty. Yes chapter will accept order but they also might say that they are too busy doing something else to undertake these orders. It’s all to do with their different view of the emperor, many chapter do not worship him as a god like the humans do and are not under the cosh of the religious order. Of course a chapter can’t push it too far as they will be declared traitors.

They don’t sit around waiting for orders either, they undertake their own missions.

I believe the dark angels regularly do not play ball with the imperium as they are undertaking their own agenda.

So having them fragmented with their own priorities would make it harder to organise 1m marines made up of lots of chapter to do bad things


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Ironically this federation of power and the lack of progress it causes is only really pointed out for CSM and their warbands.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/07/21 20:31:09


 
   
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mrFickle wrote:
 Tiennos wrote:
 Gert wrote:
^Bingo.
Horus commanded half the Imperium when he turned. If a Chapter Master could call on two thousand Astartes plus another thousand Auxiliary forces, that would represent a serious threat. It was outright shown during Badab what would happen in such a situation, the Astral Claws never seemed to lose strength and the thousands of mortal soldiers they had meant they could leave the majority of Astartes free to cause serious damage to the Imperial forces.
It's not just a matter of command structure, though. It's not like Horus gave everyone the official order to be traitors and they all agreed. He managed to recruit half the primarchs to his side and failed with the other half. If he'd been more or less convincing, the heresy would have gone very differently.

Sure, the armies of the Imperium are very fragmented in 40k, but it doesn't change things all that much. To get a million space marines divided into chapters on you side, you need to make a thousand chapter masters loyal to you. To get a hypothetical legion of a million soldiers to obey you, you need to get the command structure on your side. That's potentially just as many officers as those chapter masters. In the end it's the same problem: it's not about how the troops are organized, it's about whether someone's charismatic, cunning, ruthless and/or manipulative enough to pull it off.


And space marine chapters aren’t under the direct military control of the imperium, it’s more a sort of pact or treaty. Yes chapter will accept order but they also might say that they are too busy doing something else to undertake these orders. It’s all to do with their different view of the emperor, many chapter do not worship him as a god like the humans do and are not under the cosh of the religious order. Of course a chapter can’t push it too far as they will be declared traitors.

They don’t sit around waiting for orders either, they undertake their own missions.

I believe the dark angels regularly do not play ball with the imperium as they are undertaking their own agenda.

So having them fragmented with their own priorities would make it harder to organise 1m marines made up of lots of chapter to do bad things


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Ironically this federation of power and the lack of progress it causes is only really pointed out for CSM and their warbands.


I mean on a l;ogistics side of things it's a safe bet, given who orginized it, the second founding didn't just see the new space marine chapters thrown to the winds and the wolves supply wise the way CSMs where.

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A.T. wrote:
It's a matter of limiting the influence any one chapter master has.

If the Imperium needs to commit 10,000 space marines they just send ten chapters.


And for all sorts of reasons, that's impractical. Communication, transportation, other commitments. Chapters tend to have companies, demi-companies or individual squads scattered all over the place, and they don't deploy in any fashion that makes sense to modern logistics.
Getting everyone from even one chapter in place for whatever conflict is unlikely to impossible. The multi-chapter conflicts are impressive for how rare they are more than the scale.


Also, 40k numbers are basically nonsense all the time.

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Canada

While I sure it sounded cool at the pub when they wrote it, the Imperium having 1000 Chapters each of 1000 Marines makes about as much sense as a soup sandwich. They have terrible sense of scale, but I think it works if you zoom it really tight on Brother Sergeant Badassus and his squad fighting against the backdrop of a galaxy at war. You can stay at the micro-tactical (Sgt Badassaus) or macro-strategic (Gulliman) and have an engaging read, but when you go to the middle layers it kinda falls apart.


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Bristol (UK)

I view the fragmented chapters as emblematic of 40k's fascist parody background.
This sort of fragmented power is quite typical of authoritarian regimes, the Nazis famously were all at each other's throats for favour, and particularly when it came to the land army they had multiple separate organisations all doing nominally the same thing, with divisions within those given radically different priority over recruits and equipment.

40k follows that but turns it up a notch, the justification is even essentially the same, don't want to give anyone too much power! Except the supreme leader, obviously.
   
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Tawnis wrote:
Okay, so this has been rattling around in my brain for a long time now and I wanted to get both get it off my chest and hear what everyone else thinks about it. Basically, I think that even with their Superhuman Chad Marine status, 1000 members for a chapter is just too small for a universe like 40k.

So, lets take the boys in blue as an example of my point here since there is a lot of lore to find on them. I'm going to just use the last 25 years of M41 here as a sample.

974: Fall of Damnos: Ultramarines 2nd Company suffered heavy casualties from Necron forces, loosing approximately 60 battle brothers, as well as multiple tanks and Dreadnoughts.
982: Gurun System Conflict: Ultramarines 4th Company shot down an Ork Warship over the world of Womo, destroying the Orks and slaying the Warboss at the cost of 17 battle brothers and Captain Tiy Newman.
984: Burbeck’s Asteroid: Marneus Calgar led an unspecified number of Ultramarines against the Ork Warlord Shaggro Worldwrecker’s asteroid fortress. Casualties were high as well as losing the entire complement of Dreadnoughts to a massive melta trap. Though the Ultramarines did finally carry the day after Calgar committed his aerial reserves to the fight, it is stated that they came very close to defeat.
992: Ichar IV: The start of the second Tyranic War, Calgar led an undisclosed, but large number of Ultramarines, to aid the Scythes of the Emperor and Lementors against Hive Fleet Kraken. Losses confirmed as very heavy for the Ultramarines and near total for the other two chapters.
997: Zeist Campaign: Ultramarines 2nd Company strikes against the well defended Tau in the Ziest sector. Though successful, they are the only SM forces in the are until some time later when nearly a dozen other chapters arrive to push the Tau out of the system. Casualties’ unknown.
999: Battle of Tarsis Ultra: Ultramarines 4th Company suffered heavy losses against the Tyranids, then potentially wiped out when the world was destroyed soon after by the Iron warriors Warsmith Honsu, but total loss is unconfirmed.
999: Second Battle for Damnos: Calgar leads a large force of Ultramarines, including Sicarius’ 2nd Company back to Damnos. They suffer heavy casualties but cleanse the world of Necrons.
999: Invasion of Ultramar: Warsmith Honsu invades Ultramar, the defence costing the lives of 397 Battle Brothers across all companies. (Unknown if this includes the losses from Tarsis Ultra or not.)
999: Liberation of Lagan: Ultramarines 3rd Company liberate Lagan from Tau forces. Casualties’ unknown.
999: 13th Black Crusade: Ultramarines Honour Company (Comprised from members of successor chapters as well, seems outside the 1000 Codex required. Odd for Ultramarines.) Participated in many major engagements, though combat strength and losses are unknown.
999: Siege of Fenris: Ultramarines 6th company arrives alongside massive relief force to aid the Space Wolves. Losses unknown.
999: The Ultramar Campaign: The system is besieged by yet more Chaos forces; losses are high before Guilliman is resurrected and turns the tide of battle.

The final year of the timeline seems a bit muddled, Warp travel and such will do that. It is also clear that it was an unprecedented year of conflict, but even so, the galaxy is always at war and the Space Marines, always fighting. I know that they get Primaris reinforcements and all after this, but I’m using this as an example of any given point it time from the end of the HH to the current.

How can they possibly keep up recruitment to stem the losses that are seen here, or that would be seen across any of the Space Marine chapters if we had the full knowledge of every conflict every company fought in over this period? The process of creating a Space Marine is not an easy one, taking 5-10 years minimum. Not to mention transport time to find wherever the company currently is fighting to delivery reinforcing troops. On top of that, to be Codex complaint, they can’t surpass 100 battle brothers per Company, so by the time reinforcements arrive, they will likely have sustained more losses in the interim even if you disregard the delay in actually creating a Space Marine.

On top of all that, regardless of how strong an individual Space Marine is, they can’t be everywhere, and 100 battle brothers can only do so much, even if they were somehow at full combat strength. They would need to be used almost exclusively in support of other Imperial units in order to actually accomplish anything beyond Assassination and/or Spec Ops deployments. Yet we often see them campaigning on their own, or with minimal support except in the largest of conflicts.

For example, I’m reading Farsight, Crisis of Faith right now and the Scar Lords chapter loses a full combat squad to a single Broadside, then another to a single XV8 Iridium Crisis suit and 2 sniper drones. There’s also the short story Kayoun where a single pathfinder and about a dozen drones takes out an entire Imperial convoy as well as their Space Marine escort. Each of these comparatively minor incidents would be a serious blow to the companies involved and seem like they would hardly be a rarity in the war torn 41st millennium.

So, how would this go about being fixed to make more sense, not just from losses sustained, but from the sense of actually being able to carry out a military campaign over anything other than a tiny theatre of war and the logistics of reinforcing to a significant degree? I mean, out of all the words to describe Space Marine conflicts in the lore, “tiny” hardly ever comes to mind.

My solution would be to make a very tiny errata to literally everything Space Marine related. Add a 0 to every number. Chapters would be 10,000 strong with companies or 1000. This would still be very small on a galactic scale but would actually make sense as a fighting force that (combined with how strong they are) could carry out military campaigns on their own. It also makes the wildly varied effectiveness of the Space Marines make more sense. In a particularly hard battle a few dozen battle brothers dying is a massive blow if your strength is only 100, but just a setback if you have 1000. In the larger conflicts loosing 396 out of 1000 marines, when you're already not at full strength is a devastating blow, but 3960 out of 10000, while proportionally the same, still leaves you with a respectable fighting force at the end of it all. With wars that companies can be committed to for years or more, the manpower just wouldn’t last at 100, no matter how strong Space Marines are.

Anyhow, I think that I’ve rambled long enough, what do you all think? Agree, disagree? Flaw in my logic somewhere?
1000 marine official chapter numbers has always been ridiculous.

Losing only 10 marines would set the chapter back years.
   
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I always assumed it was 1000 battle brothers was marines in "active" service, so 1000 warriors ready for deployment at a moment's notice while the others rest, recuperate and otherwise do whatever marines do when they chill out.
   
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Eye of Terror

Here's how I've always thought about it.

The headcount restriction constrains Space Marine chapters in the battles they can fight. A larger engagement requires cooperation between multiple chapters / other Imperial forces.

For the sake of argument, let's say the ideal opponent is a 100,000 man Renegade Guard force limited to a single region of a planet. A Space Marine Chapter could conceivably prevail by deploying companies to engage on multiple fronts, destroying supply lines, eliminating command structures, etc. Their success depends on utilizing superior tactics and equipment, picking the right battles, having the mobility to rapidly redeploy between conflict zones, dropping orbital bombardments from space, and deficiencies with their opponents.

Now imagine that opponent is 10x larger and fights across multiple planets. The scale of the conflict is greater than what a single Chapter can do efficiently. So now they need allies, which mean calling in some combination of Guard, Navy, Titan / Knight Houses, Sisters and other Chapters. Those allies have some agency to decide how they want to be involved, with the understanding there will be consequences for refusing a request.

It's effective because Space Marines are feared not just because of weight of numbers, but because of the sum of what they can bring to the table. They're a deterrent as much as a fighting force.

   
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Voss wrote:
And for all sorts of reasons, that's impractical. Communication, transportation, other commitments. Chapters tend to have companies, demi-companies or individual squads scattered all over the place, and they don't deploy in any fashion that makes sense to modern logistics.
The marines erratic communication, transportation, and other logistical issues apply both to mutliple chapters and within the same chapter.

And also kind of serve the purpose that having the smaller chapters exists for. Collectively the high lords can ask that all available marines in a given area go to point A and kill the xenos, but these disperate forces are somewhat less capable of organising with one another. The whole thing is intended to prevent any one chapter master from gathering a critical mass of marines to deploy at his discretion. The inefficiencies are accepted as the cost of it.

Ironically the Ultramarines are the only chapter noted to have flagrantly disregarded this limitation when they gathered all of their successor chapters (more than half of the Imperiums standing forces) to attack the Night Lords homeworld.
   
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Space Marine co-operation on a large scale happens all the time in the background. At Armageddon for example the many fleets of Navy and Astartes ships were put under the command of High Marshal Helbrecht due to his veterancy and skill in void warfare.
And again, the whole reason for Chapters being that small is to prevent similar situations to the Heresy. One Chapter turning traitor is a much easier thing to deal with than a Legion, especially when the Imperium would have five times as many Chapters to call on to deal with the single traitor. Chapters are also less restricted in tactical choices conpared to a Legion Chapter/Grand Company. The Ultramarines 125th Chapter might be an armour formation but the Steel Dragons Chapter, while favouring armoured warfare, will still have Assault Companies or Tactical Companies to give it more options if needs be.
   
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I think thousand chapters of around ten thousand Astartes would make the most sensible amount of Astartes.

It would allow for something like a dozen regiments of about 9-12 companies each.

And I like to also add an extra zero in headcanon to legion sizes.
   
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There's a lot of talk of the Space Marine Chapters having to be so small because of the power Horus wielded, and while that it true, it's also true that it wasn't just the Legions that turned, it was the Titans, the Solar Auxilia, the HH equivalent of the Guard, the Mechanicum, ect... everything split down the middle.

Even with half the legions to his banner, after purging the ranks and the dropsite massicre, he had what? 1 million Space Marines, tops? That amount could fit inside a city. Sure you could easily conquer a planet with it, a system, several systems even given time, but certainly not a galaxy, not on their own. They can only be in so many places at once no matter how strong they are.

15000 4000 3500 2500 :tyranid: 2500 1000 1000
1000 1000 1000 1000  
   
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Tawnis wrote:
There's a lot of talk of the Space Marine Chapters having to be so small because of the power Horus wielded, and while that it true, it's also true that it wasn't just the Legions that turned, it was the Titans, the Solar Auxilia, the HH equivalent of the Guard, the Mechanicum, ect... everything split down the middle.

The Titan Legions got absolutely smashed during the Heresy and will never return to the levels they once were.
The Imperial Army was split into the Astra Militarum and Imperial Navy to stop the Militarum from having transports and the Navy from having troops to hold worlds, then the Militarum was split even further so Regiments could specialise in one specific role (armour, infantry, artillery) to prevent a traitor Regiment from being able to effectively counter a retribution force.
The Mechanicus was heavily rearranged post-Martian Schism and was integrated much more into the Imperium than as the Mechanicum.

Even with half the legions to his banner, after purging the ranks and the dropsite massicre, he had what? 1 million Space Marines, tops? That amount could fit inside a city. Sure you could easily conquer a planet with it, a system, several systems even given time, but certainly not a galaxy, not on their own. They can only be in so many places at once no matter how strong they are.

Add onto that the fleets the Legions commanded, the influence Space Marines have on mortals and you have a recipe for disaster. Each Expeditionary Fleet was basically subservient to any Legion element at it's core. The 63rd, despite having Mechanicum, Army, and Titan forces, all fell under the command of Horus.
Astartes still have that level of power in the modern Imperium. A Chapter Master, especially a veteran one such as Dante, Calgar, or Lugft Huron, can and will take command of theatres of war. At that point what stops them from taking all of these forces and turning on the Imperium? Not a whole lot. So by reducing the number of the best troops available to said Chapter Master, the Imperium potentially prevents a calamity.
Lugft Huron was confident in his ability to win the Badab War because he had the double strength Astral Claws, the Mantis Warriors, the Lamenters, and thousands of troops from the Tyrant's Legion under his command alongside Battlefleet Maelstrom against what was originally one Chapter strike force and mortal household armies.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/07/22 15:35:59


 
   
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1000 super-humans is indeed too small a number, in relation to modern age conflicts. Even considering their superhuman physiology. It could even be argued that even if outdone in fighting ability by super-humans, the momentum of war activity generated by military numbers by the 1800s, would have easily outpaced any damage a group of 1000 Astartes could do.

But like someone earlier has said in this thread, the fighting numbers seen in Warhammer 40,000 seem to incredibly small. I also used to be of the opinion that writers just dont know their own relative scale, but nowadays, i am of the opinion that 40K numbers and setting elements are much more reflective of medieval era numbers/style. Back then, the vast majority of conflicts were also very local and opposing forces were also numerically small. Conflicts were between local noblemen and wealthy individuals/families. Local fights, battles, or if things get serious, sieges, saw numbers in the low hundreds at most, and quite often, it wasn't even more than 200 people. Only if we scale out to a larger view, wars between royals, and kingdoms would involve tens of thousands of personnel. 40K is very much in standing with these numbers and scale of conflict.

This is all without considering force amplifying weapons such as space ships, titans, and WMDs can do of course.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/07/22 16:16:10


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