Yowza! The damage...

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**Sim-Life**

And to think necron doomsday arks have to stay still for a turn and its STILL worse than this. Most advanced race in the galaxy me hole.

**Dudeface**

Gadzilla666 wrote:
Dudeface wrote:
Honestly it's all eradicator hype again

What? You mean like how this looks bad until you realize that there's stuff way worse that you didn't notice because you were paying attention to this instead?

Probably, but the weeks of "Woe me, woe the game, it's all over, the best unit in existence now exists!!!! I will never play tanks again, I won't attend events unless these are banned!" until in a few weeks and maybe 1-2 pop up in runner up placements because we still don't know the cost, we don't know of the chassis changed, we don't know what buffs are available and to be frank, who leaves their expensive 10-12 wound units just sat with their ass in the wind to be nuked turn 1?

**Drachii**

People: 'High value one-shot weapons are useless because of invulns!'

GW: 'Okay, this one ignores invulns.'

People: [shocked pikachu]

**Grimtuff**

A massive word salad of rules for a single shot weapon and a previously available alt firing method is now a bloody stratagem.

GW gonna GW...

**Stevefamine**

Unit1126PLL wrote:
I can't wait to see the Vanquisher Cannon profile, given that it has historically been better AT than the railgun.

I doubt that will get a buff or an update. Arent most Vanq cannons FW books or not legal?

**Insectum7**

Arcanis161 wrote:
That feel when you play an army known for tanks and you realize the Tau can do a better Armored Company than you.

I'd bet good money that the Vanquisher will wind up in similar territory. That thing has been languishing in it's supposed AT role, and the RG is a good template for how to go about it.

Grimtuff wrote:
A massive word salad of rules for a single shot weapon and a previously available alt firing method is now a bloody stratagem.

GW gonna GW...

Agree that the removal of the Blast option sucks.

**Grimtuff**

Stevefamine wrote:
Unit1126PLL wrote:
I can't wait to see the Vanquisher Cannon profile, given that it has historically been better AT than the railgun.

I doubt that will get a buff or an update. Arent most Vanq cannons FW books or not legal?

Vanquisher is one of the variants you can build from the basic Russ kit. I presume it's in the normal codex.

**Kanluwen**

It's also been trash the entire time it's been in the Codex proper rather than FW.

**xerxeskingofking**

Stevefamine wrote:
Unit1126PLL wrote:
I can't wait to see the Vanquisher Cannon profile, given that it has historically been better AT than the railgun.

I doubt that will get a buff or an update. Arent most Vanq cannons FW books or not legal?

they folded a load of the "fw turret variants" into the base LR kit and datasheet, so its 100% regular codex these days.

**stonehorse**

Mezmorki wrote:
I know I'm complaining to the choir/wind here, but this is a perfect example of what I despise about the current design direction in the game. We have a gun here, which shoots one shot, but has a bajillion other things attached to it. Re-rolling the hits (targeting array). Rolling d3 for extra damage. Tracking +3 mortal wounds. Negates armor and invulnerable saves. Also attached to a strat that instead causes a wound on each model on a 4+ (mortal wounds of course), with +1 modifer if you have 11+ models, but up to a maximum of 8.

JFC, what a headache to track all of that. It's a spaghetti mess of minutia.

Makes me wish the current game would get back to something simple like:

R72", S10, AP1, Heavy1, Lance, Large Blast

Think we're reaching the point where current 40K achieves more or less the same outcome as 3rd-5th edition, but with a barrage of word salad attached to near enough everything... which ultimately just slows the game down, as it gets bogged down in words.

**Ventus**

Drachii wrote:
People: 'High value one-shot weapons are useless because of invulns!'

GW: 'Okay, this one ignores invulns.'

People: [shocked pikachu]

The classic 'sawing off your arm nominally cures you of a broken finger' solution.

**FezzikDaBullgryn**

Can we please see the Shadowsword get this type of treatment?

Also, anyone find it funny that this thing out shoots Titan weaponry?

**Unit1126PLL**

FezzikDaBullgryn wrote:
Can we please see the Shadowsword get this type of treatment?

Also, anyone find it funny that this thing out shoots Titan weaponry?

Yeah, I was having a private giggle at the Eldar Cobra.

"Vaporizes entire Imperial Titans and sucks them into the warp, utterly bypassing their defensive fields!" - does not ignore invulns, AP -5, 6 flat damage, d3 MW on a 4+ to wound.

"Hunk of iron but really fast" - ignores invulns, AP -6, 7 damage minimum, 9 damage maximum, +3 mortal wounds automatically.

EDIT:
I am also bemused that the defenses against this thing's special rules are all just more special rules. Will statlines ever be important again or are we just having a "special rules war" (and the accompanying bloat)

**VladimirHerzog**

Drachii wrote:
People: 'High value one-shot weapons are useless because of invulns!'

GW: 'Okay, this one ignores invulns.'

People: [shocked pikachu]

its fine if it ONLY ignored invulns, the problem is it one shots too many things and still gets to do something against infantry thanks to the mortal wounds.

If the gun had flat 6 damage (and ignore invuln), it would still be better than most anti-tank weaponry whilst not being completely nuts.

Personally i'm glad i started playing OnePageRules, that nonsense is too much for me

**Voss**

Hmm. Are eldar or daemons more likely to get a special invulnerable save that ignores special rules that ignore invulnerable saves?
Or do I get to laugh when zoanthropes get it. (but lose their 3++ at the same time)

**Unit1126PLL**

Voss wrote:
Hmm. Are eldar or daemons more likely to get a special invulnerable save that ignores special rules that ignore invulnerable saves?

They can call it an Invincible Save and we can put another + afterwards.

A keeper of secrets can be 6+/4++/6+++/4++++

**Leo_the_Rat**

Keepers don't have a native feel no pain so the line would be 6+/4++/4++++.

**Unit1126PLL**

Leo_the_Rat wrote:
Keepers don't have a native feel no pain so the line would be 6+/4++/4++++.

They can with the Shining Aegis free wargear swap. They also are only 5+ invuln right now, but can get a 4+ with a strat.

**dewd11**

Honestly, this is less egregious than the standard marine weapons. Still kinda salty when looking at a HH compared to Necron AT (DDA, CDS, LHD) tho

**ERJAK**

Dudeface wrote:
Gadzilla666 wrote:
Dudeface wrote:
Honestly it's all eradicator hype again

What? You mean like how this looks bad until you realize that there's stuff way worse that you didn't notice because you were paying attention to this instead?

Probably, but the weeks of "Woe me, woe the game, it's all over, the best unit in existence now exists!!!! I will never play tanks again, I won't attend events unless these are banned!" until in a few weeks and maybe 1-2 pop up in runner up placements because we still don't know the cost, we don't know of the chassis changed, we don't know what buffs are available and to be frank, who leaves their expensive 10-12 wound units just sat with their ass in the wind to be nuked turn 1?

Eradicators were crazy until the first wave of nerfs came in. They weren't as OP as people thought they were going to be, but pretending they didn't warp the meta is revisionist history.

Sisters of Battle Retributors being Eradicators on crack soon after that notwishstanding.

Also sidebar, no one has played tanks since those units dropped unless said tanks got a rule specifically designed to counter that type of firepower (I.e. Decent invuls or damage reductions.)

**Wyldhunt**

Oof. Not sure how I feel about this. I've wanted the hammerhead railgun to be better for a long time, but this seems a bit much. Kind of gives me 7th edition vibes in the sense that it seems like the tau player will autokill a target, then their opponent will retaliate with enough firepower to autokill the hammerhead, etc. Might not be a game breaker, but it definitely seems like we're back into feelsbad territory where your expensive vehicles/monsters get killed turn 1 before they really do anything.

Also, I'm pretty irked that the gun somehow nullifies invul saves derived form magic powers, hologram projectors, dodging, etc.

**Dudeface**

ERJAK wrote:
Dudeface wrote:
Gadzilla666 wrote:
Dudeface wrote:
Honestly it's all eradicator hype again

What? You mean like how this looks bad until you realize that there's stuff way worse that you didn't notice because you were paying attention to this instead?

Probably, but the weeks of "Woe me, woe the game, it's all over, the best unit in existence now exists!!!! I will never play tanks again, I won't attend events unless these are banned!" until in a few weeks and maybe 1-2 pop up in runner up placements because we still don't know the cost, we don't know of the chassis changed, we don't know what buffs are available and to be frank, who leaves their expensive 10-12 wound units just sat with their ass in the wind to be nuked turn 1?

Eradicators were crazy until the first wave of nerfs came in. They weren't as OP as people thought they were going to be, but pretending they didn't warp the meta is revisionist history.

Sisters of Battle Retributors being Eradicators on crack soon after that notwishstanding.

Also sidebar, no one has played tanks since those units dropped unless said tanks got a rule specifically designed to counter that type of firepower (I.e. Decent invuls or damage reductions.)

Thank you captain serious, I was poking fun at all the sky is falling people who quit the game or cried end times because of Internet hype over a unit that wasn't in the wild.

**H.B.M.C.**

I just don't understand why it ignores Invul saves.

**Insectum7**

H.B.M.C. wrote:
I just don't understand why it ignores Invul saves.

Gaming-wise, because it's a one shot weapon and invulns can quickly make one-shot weapons not worthwhile (see Lascannons in 7th ed). World-wise, because it overloads fields of various sorts? Dunno. But why add Mortal Wounds on top of that? Seems a little odd.

**Manchild 1984**

H.B.M.C. wrote:
I just don't understand why it ignores Invul saves.

Nightbringer engineering

**Gadzilla666**

H.B.M.C. wrote:
I just don't understand why it ignores Invul saves.

It shoots Dreadaxes.

**vipoid**

H.B.M.C. wrote:
I just don't understand why it ignores Invul saves.

This.

I get that all-or-nothing weapons aren't ideal but you're already doing 3 Mortal Wounds to a target even if it succeeds its invulnerable save.

**H.B.M.C.**

Insectum7 wrote:
World-wise, because it overloads fields of various sorts? Dunno. But why add Mortal Wounds on top of that? Seems a little odd.

Overloads daemonic auras? Psychic barriers?

Sorry, but the 'It shoots Dreadaxes!' explanation above makes more sense to me.

**Ordana**

The ignore invul is literally the designer looking at all the invul save tanks & monsters everyone brings (because those without and invul are generally garbage) and thinking 'I want to counter that' and either no one being able to tell him no or GW recognizing that they gave out way to many invul saves.

**stonehorse**

H.B.M.C. wrote:
I just don't understand why it ignores Invul saves.

It launches 3rd edition Warscythes. No one is safe.