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 H.B.M.C. wrote:

Unfortunately, with the Necromunda cards, you either choose not to use them, or you buy them the moment they go on pre-order. There's no real middle ground. Very few of the Necromunda card sets have been things you can forget about and wait a few months before picking up. Some sell out in seconds, and unlike 40k's cards*, they don't reprint them. You get them right away, or you never** get them.

That's a deranged opinion. There's an obvious and uncomplicated middle ground, which is "use the cards you have." At this point in it's lifespan the game has produced dozens of S-tier gang tactics -- going all the way back to the first release, where one finds "Click..." -- and each new pack adds at least a couple new ones, meaning no one should ever experience a power deficit due to lack of cards. Furthermore, the books have begun to include printings of gang tactics within them.

Your statement is so out-of-pocket that one could be forgiven for reading it as the opinion of somenody whose only engagement with Newcromunda occurs from the "completionist collector who doesn't play the game" perspective. Although surely you'll be able to describe some of your gameplay/campaign experiences for the benefit of the thread...

The amount of books they require and the complete lack of a consistent playerbase. I love Necromunda and AT but nobody here wants to play anything other than 40k/AoS. I don't have the time or energy to try to build up a playerbase for a new game.

 Altruizine wrote:

 H.B.M.C. wrote:

Unfortunately, with the Necromunda cards, you either choose not to use them, or you buy them the moment they go on pre-order. There's no real middle ground. Very few of the Necromunda card sets have been things you can forget about and wait a few months before picking up. Some sell out in seconds, and unlike 40k's cards*, they don't reprint them. You get them right away, or you never** get them.

That's a deranged opinion. There's an obvious and uncomplicated middle ground, which is "use the cards you have." At this point in it's lifespan the game has produced dozens of S-tier gang tactics -- going all the way back to the first release, where one finds "Click..." -- and each new pack adds at least a couple new ones, meaning no one should ever experience a power deficit due to lack of cards. Furthermore, the books have begun to include printings of gang tactics within them.

Your statement is so out-of-pocket that one could be forgiven for reading it as the opinion of somenody whose only engagement with Newcromunda occurs from the "completionist collector who doesn't play the game" perspective. Although surely you'll be able to describe some of your gameplay/campaign experiences for the benefit of the thread...

The Click card is one of the reason I'd never use cards in Necromunda. So lame. Unless maybe cards are randomly generated and not chosen by the players, then maybe I could give them a try. But shutting down the best shooter in turn 1 of every single game is just awful.

People who want to use cards can easily bypass the problem of trying to get OOP stuff though. They just need to find the cards' content online or from the books and then print their own ones.

One thing thst would definitely stop me branching out into another game would be if the community playing it is a bunch of asshats (and lets face it- within gaming, there are plenty elitists, tryhards, cheats, cutthroats, bullies and downright toxic individuals and groups that can ruin your experience).

You can play, and even enjoy a poor game with a good community. A poor or toxic community, on the other hand will ruin even the best game.

 oni wrote:

 Sim-Life wrote:

Karol wrote:
Ah. Well assuming I never heard about those, the question anwsered itself.
By the way did GW ever make a 15mm scale game, because XVIIth century historicals of that scale are very popular around here. I know there is titanicus, but it has no infantry in it, just the big walkers and knights. W40k would probably not fit the scale, but AoS could be really nice with all of its medivel/fantasy inspired units.

As I said earlier you never heard of them because GW axed their partnership with Fantasy Flight Games, the company that developed and produced them, despite almost every game made by that partnership getting good reviews and being popular in the board game community. Forbidden Stars was in the aggregate Top 100 board games of all time up until recently and Chaos In The Old World is still in the top 200. Bloodbowl Team Manager also gets a lot of praise and is still sought after.

They quit the collaboration quite soon after Forbidden Stars was released before it could get any expansions (and judging from the box size they were planning on putting out all the factions eventually) and as I previously said, I think they were threatened by FFG making mechanically better games than GW.

There is now no chance of them being released again unless GW approaches FFG because GW own the IP and FFG owns the game designs. The designer of Forbidden Stars has been teasing people with a retheme of the game for a while now though so it'll be interesting to see how that works out.

The reality is; FFG is a bunch of toss pots whoring out whatever IP they can get the rights to.

Thanks for letting me know your personal grudges make your opinion not worth reading.

I don't have time to play any other game system than 40k. Some others in my gaming group have other games (Titanicus, Necromunda and Kill Team) but they never get played because 40k is the commaon gaming system we all play.

While I appreciate the question that started this thread it would also be interesting to know: What stops you from branching out into games other than what is produced by GW?

I meet people through various socially media groups who, like myself, have migrated GW plastic into better quality model agnostic game systems. In every case there are no major rules issues and people are enjoying their models so I am not seeing a downside. Are people here more interested in the politics of trying to bend the will of GW than enjoying a game experience? I have been reading the same stuff over and over about how bad GW rules are so I really do not understand because the models are not the game content.

The main limiting factor of GW games isn't the minis as much as the rules upkeep. Regardless of system there's new editions, new codecies or battletomes or cards or something of that nature to keep up with, and GW doesn't make it very easy to cleanly update even if you're willing to pay. I've got all these little piles of cards from Underworlds, or Kill Team or Apocalypse or Warcry or whatever and most of these games aren't even playable for me anymore because its all out of date. I've even abandoned most of my armies I have a good collection of simply because its not worth keeping up with the rules add ons for more than one of them.

I play a lot of systems from other companies. Malifaux, Infinity, Warmachine, MCP, etc and while they all have updates, they're all MUCH easier to keep up with at no real additional cost. Keeping up with even one GW game is far more costly and honestly not even worth it comparably.

 Tokhuah wrote:
While I appreciate the question that started this thread it would also be interesting to know: What stops you from branching out into games other than what is produced by GW?

I meet people through various socially media groups who, like myself, have migrated GW plastic into better quality model agnostic game systems. In every case there are no major rules issues and people are enjoying their models so I am not seeing a downside. Are people here more interested in the politics of trying to bend the will of GW than enjoying a game experience? I have been reading the same stuff over and over about how bad GW rules are so I really do not understand because the models are not the game content.

What are these games? Maybe this needs a new thread

 Tokhuah wrote:
While I appreciate the question that started this thread it would also be interesting to know: What stops you from branching out into games other than what is produced by GW?

Nothing at all. In fact for long periods of time, I have actively avoided gw and played a variety of other games such as wmh, infinity, flames of war, bolt action etc.

However, and surprisingly to myself most of all, most of the fun I've had when it's come to gaming these last, say, 4 years has been with gw games, not other conpanies' offerings. In fact I've actively stopped enjoying a lot of them over time - infinity is too complex and technical, warmachine ended up losing its soul etc.

 Tokhuah wrote:

I meet people through various socially media groups who, like myself, have migrated GW plastic into better quality model agnostic game systems. In every case there are no major rules issues and people are enjoying their models so I am not seeing a downside.

I highly doubt there are no major rules issues. The second those games get played as intensely as 40k, (and have people looking to break, twist, manipulate and exploit any 'rough edges' and played to the bleeding edge of waac, as 49k often is) by a community as large as 40k's, those rules sets will be swiftlu torn to shreds and their creators villified. You Will see no difference.

That said I'm glad they're enjoying their games. I've delved into osprey wargaming and ither model agnostic systems as well and what I've played has been pretty decent.

 Tokhuah wrote:
. Are people here more interested in the politics of trying to bend the will of GW than enjoying a game experience? I have been reading the same stuff over and over about how bad GW rules are so I really do not understand because the models are not the game content.

Gw rules are terrible but ttg's are limited systems. My pov is you can only expect so much from any rules set - they all swiftly break down, especially if you adhere unbendingly to the 'official' script (as defined by the community) and chase the meta . The gw games we play are 'good enough', especially with the house rules we apply (and tbf we'd do this approach with every game we play) and especially if you dont play them at their breaking point. I'm not interested in 'bending the will of gw' - I'd have as much success doing that as looking for unicorn feathers.

Yours are good questions and worth considering.

I highly doubt there are no major rules issues. The second those games get played as intensely as 40k, (and have people looking to break, twist, manipulate and exploit any 'rough edges' and played to the bleeding edge of waac, as 49k often is) by a community as large as 40k's, those rules sets will be swiftlu torn to shreds and their creators villified. You Will see no difference.

The main difference between GW games and other companies games, which are good, is that unlike with GW games, the difference between the power level of the best and the worse faction is much smaller. There is also fewer fewer horrible armies. With GW games if you pick up an army at the wrong time, there is a high chance you will end up with something very unfun for possibly years. And when this is overlayed with the cost of playing the game, and how much it takes to paint a 2000pts army, GW stuff does not look great. thankfuly for GW they are a monopolist with other companies having no chance to take a impactful part of the market from them.

 Tokhuah wrote:
While I appreciate the question that started this thread it would also be interesting to know: What stops you from branching out into games other than what is produced by GW?

The same factors that'd stop me from GW games.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Tokhuah wrote:
Are people here more interested in the politics of trying to bend the will of GW than enjoying a game experience? I have been reading the same stuff over and over about how bad GW rules are so I really do not understand because the models are not the game content.

I have no interest (or need) in bending GWs will. At most all I need to do is bend the will of those I play with. Much easier than bending GWs & I get what I want much faster.

Previously it was a lack of players for other games I enjoyed more but I've moved to an area with a solid SBG crowd I barely touch my 40k nowadays. Constant codex creep and rules bloat have made it difficult to prepare for a game and tedious once there, whether you're winning or losing.

Heres a question, is there a 3rd party producer that makes card and plastic scenery ala og necromunda for pretty cheap?

Dai wrote:
Heres a question, is there a 3rd party producer that makes card and plastic scenery ala og necromunda for pretty cheap?

Cheaper than GW? Definitely.

I know Fat Dragon Games has/had Sci-Fi paper terrain. They're also doing 3d print files now. It's been a few years since I browsed them though so I don't know their current offerings.

I don't feel like learning another game.

Dai wrote:
Heres a question, is there a 3rd party producer that makes card and plastic scenery ala og necromunda for pretty cheap?

Not plastic but TTCombat produces amazing terrain in MDF for reasonably cheap. I actually think it even looks better than the original GW plastic, the 3D underhive at least, maybe not the labyrinth walls although those are also really good.

Heck, for people outside the UK it's convenient even considering we have to add VAT and extra fees since it'd be still among the cheapest producers and their quality is really high. I actually wouldn't even consider to buy GW plastic terrain since TTCombat exists.

There are companies that sells amazing 3rd printed stuff as well, I just prefer the MDF.

Pretty much just lack of anyone to play with and time. Most of my friends are board gamers and want absolutely nothing to do with miniature games (indeed, they are repelled by them for some reason--I can't even get them to try kill team).

The money to get started in some of the side systems (kill team, warcry, underworlds) is actually not too much, and considerably less than 40k/AoS. It's pretty similar to a big kickstarter game.

Underworlds doesn't even really require much if any hobby time.

I do wish there could be more focus put on Kill Team, and more incentive to run Kill Team tourneys (store prize kits, etc). I think they could get a lot more people started in the hobby with that. I know I simply don't have time to ever do a real 40k tourney without taking some vacation time. It's very rare for me these days to have one entire day free on a weekend.

The newest Kill Team is one step forward, one step back with the non-standard non-intuitive terminology (turning points? shape distances?), but better overall rules and dedicated kill team releases/upgrades.

 Lord Damocles wrote:
Why would I possibly want to get in to Necromunda now with the absurd rule gouging, mountains of cards (many of which aren't even available to just buy from GW), abysmal rules quality?
Plus they still haven't even got around to updating my Ratskins, and when they do they'll probably be changed almost beyond recognition.

I think there's little hope of Ratskins being redone or if redone, being anything like the old thinly veiled Native American stereotype for fear of being seen as racist.

When I get a chance to dedicate a chunk of the day to gaming, I want to play the big game with all the models I've painted.

That said, I'm trying really hard to get a Blood Bowl league off the ground in my group. But only because I've already painted my stuff lol

Quasistellar wrote:

I do wish there could be more focus put on Kill Team, and more incentive to run Kill Team tourneys (store prize kits, etc). I think they could get a lot more people started in the hobby with that. I know I simply don't have time to ever do a real 40k tourney without taking some vacation time. It's very rare for me these days to have one entire day free on a weekend.

Did you read the Return of Organized play Warcom Article today?

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2022/06/07/organised-play-returns-claim-glory-and-exclusive-prizes/


"After that, there will be Organised Play kits coming for Kill Team, Warcry, and Warhammer Underworlds – each with fantastic, limited-release gaming accessories and bespoke items, as well as more of those coveted certificates and trophies. Kill Team will also include the chance to win a Golden Ticket to the 2022 Grand Narrative, while Warhammer Underworlds will include a chance for a Golden Ticket to the 2023 Grand Finale."

Despite having 6+ large 40k armies collected and painted over the years, the only GW game I play these days is Blood Bowl (still GW's best game). How about that for "branching out" to other GW games?

(the main reason is because I do not care for 40k's rules these days, especially the bloat - if I could find others locally more interested in the 3rd-5th edition era of the game I would probably start playing 40k again).

Dai wrote:
Heres a question, is there a 3rd party producer that makes card and plastic scenery ala og necromunda for pretty cheap?

3D printing has made terrain cheaper and easier to acquire. Thingiverse has tons of free files, and kickstarter/cults3D has a lot of higher quality paid stuff if you want to be a bit pickier. Most of the cost is in the printer itself.

 Gnarlly wrote:
Despite having 6+ large 40k armies collected and painted over the years, the only GW game I play these days is Blood Bowl (still GW's best game). How about that for "branching out" to other GW games?

(the main reason is because I do not care for 40k's rules these days, especially the bloat - if I could find others locally more interested in the 3rd-5th edition era of the game I would probably start playing 40k again).

Too bad you don't live in Indiana...