Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

 Da Boss wrote:
I used to be a big stout man, the bitterer the better. But the family curse of celiac seems to be catching up to me, so I'm looking into brewing my own mead, since most of the gluten free beers I've tried have been mediocre at best.

I think something like a session mead bochet (with carmelised honey so it has a darker colour and some of the toasted flavours) with bitter hops might get close enough to the sort of beer I like to drink. Pain in the arse, but at least home brewing is fun!

My wife has coeliac disease and funnily enough we started thinking about brewing our own mead.

Recently had my first proper Autumn "brown bowze" by my favourite local brewery Firebrick Brewery - beer in question is called Tormit Heed and it's an absolute beaut.


For those not aware of lovely bowze :

Babycham?

Bowze f’t’baby!

Tea. Lots of tea - when i'm set, can drink some 2-3 cups in as many hours, sometimes less, especially when welding or modeling.

For that "industrial" usage, i'll go for cheaper tea bags packages, but when I'm chilling, I use bag free tea.

Mostly black tea with sometimes a little lemon, that I let infuse long enough it should be realtively black.

I sometimes also like a can of Cacolac, which is a french chocolate beverage that I like a lot.

I don’t mind Cider. It’s not my drink of choice most of the time, but on the rare scorching summer days? A good pint of chilled cider slides down very nicely.

If your missus is into Strongbow? I’d look into, and I feel dirty using this next word, “artisanal” cider.

Because proper proper cider. Like, Welsh and West Country cider is mental on the ABV. But so, so tasty. Like…smoky apple juice. And concerningly, it rarely shows signs of its potency in the flavour.

As a Yoof, I had many, many regrettable nights on cider.

Scrumpy is for the hardcore though. I can drink a lot, certainly more than is advisable (can and do are not the same thing for anyone concerned for my health and sanity!), but Scrumpy I’ll stick to Half Pints only, and with a decent gap between each serving, because that stuff sneaks up on.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Example of Welsh Cider wot I’ve had a pint of?

https://gwyntcidershop.com/products/black-dragon-10ltr

Just….cawcanny as my parents used to say. At 7.2% ABV, it’s a strong, smoky and delicious brew.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Oh, and if you really don’t care for your liver? Try proper proper “no, not pear flavoured cider” Perry.

Which is made from Pears.

That stuff is truly something else, with a completely different and perhaps unique flavour profile.

You know, given how much booze was produced and consumed in Britain? It’s inexplicable we got anything done, let alone got a really really big Empire going!

When I’ve had a skinful, all I want to do is watch bad movies and sleep.

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
Oh, and if you really don’t care for your liver? Try proper proper “no, not pear flavoured cider” Perry.

Which is made from Pears.
That stuff is truly something else, with a completely different and perhaps unique flavour profile.

Way ahead of you, my friend. Pear brandy. VSOP Calvados.

That stuff is amazing. Hideously expensive but worth every cent.

Upgrading to the XO level is beyond my means, but some day...

I do seem to have a taste for traditional bowze. Hopefully not in a Hipster way.

For instance, Beer over Lager. Mead over Wine. Perry over Cider (certainly more so than the like of Strongbow).

Beer particularly, as a decent pub will have three or four on Pump, so there’s usually a different experience to be had.

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
I do seem to have a taste for traditional bowze. Hopefully not in a Hipster way.

For instance, Beer over Lager. Mead over Wine. Perry over Cider (certainly more so than the like of Strongbow).

Beer particularly, as a decent pub will have three or four on Pump, so there’s usually a different experience to be had.

I drank a lot of home-brew mead in my 20s. A staple of the reenactor diet. I tried some of the commercial stuff and it was just too sweet for my aged palate. Mead is popular with the DIY set because it's much easier to make than beer.

Speaking of DIY, for a wedding gift, my father-in-law gave me a gallon jug of pure White Lighting, actual moonshine crafted in a dry county. Potent stuff, blue flame and all that. Very smooth. Took five years to finish it.

Your White Lightning is very different to our White Lightning….

Wikipedia wrote: At the end of 2009, Heineken decided to discontinue its manufacture due to its brand image problem in the United Kingdom as having become synonymous with under-age drinking, anti-social behaviour, homelessness and impoverished alcoholism, in an echo of the Gin Craze of the 18th century.[3] Such cheap non-distilled drinks (both high-strength beer and cider) became known as "tramp juice" in the UK media. When sold on special at Off licences, 3 litre plastic bottles of 8.4% White Lightning could be purchased for less than £2.

Our white lightning is Thunderbird in the US I think. Not in alcohol sense but in terms of who drinks it.

 Olthannon wrote:
Our white lightning is Thunderbird in the US I think. Not in alcohol sense but in terms of who drinks it.

Yes, our White Lightning is pure corn liquor, 120+ proof. A little goes a long way.

A few years after I got that gift, the regulatory environment shifted. Tennessee in particular decided to give up on "revenuers" and put together a framework for moonshine to go legit. It's now considered a regional craft liquor, and they have national distributors for it. It's still sold in jars, though.

I remember Thunderbird, also Boone's Farm and Mad Dog 20/20. Nasty stuff, right up there with malt liquor. Anyone remember Billy Dee Williams selling Colt 45? The motto was "works every time," which is why suave gentlemen always push it on their lady friends should they come over for the evening. Sheesh.

Each US state has its own taxes and rules for liquor vs beer and wine, so in some jurisdictions, fortified wines or beers are cheaper while in others hard liquor (sometimes mixed in cheap soft drinks or juice) is the rule.

On Billy Dee and Colt 45? I’m dimly aware of that campaign. Probably through it being spoofed.

But for me, that genre was best spoofed in The Young Ones.

CW - mild swears and no longer acceptable slang. Hence I’m not embedding.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GXcBVKjqW1Q

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
On Billy Dee and Colt 45? I’m dimly aware of that campaign. Probably through it being spoofed.

But for me, that genre was best spoofed in The Young Ones.

CW - mild swears and no longer acceptable slang. Hence I’m not embedding.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GXcBVKjqW1Q

A few years back, there was an attempt to revive Zima, no doubt counting on ageing Gen X types having a bottle or two (completely with Jolly Rancher insert).

It didn't last long.

Did "wine coolers" ever make it across the pond? It was the precursor to box wine (my mother being an early adopter of the latter).

Wine coolers (and box wine) definitely made it to Australia, but only box wine has lasted mainstream - that being said, I did find and nostalgia buy some West Coast Coolers a few months back.

Box wine is a cultural icon here with young kids - lots of party games revolve around it.

My go-tos are usually soft drinks. Arizona Ice Tea (big can for 99c) or a soda - usually Dr Pepper, though these days its the zero calorie version of it (or coke or sprite). Not diet though, i dont like the aftertaste/zero is more palatable generally speaking. I also recently discovered Red Cream Soda at White Castle and have been going nuts for it. My first love though, soda wise, is grape soda (sunkist or welch's preferred, fanta is ok).

I drink alcohol only rarely, if I'm having a beer its usually whatevers on tap or in a bottle that sounds like it might be good, usually prefer fruity notes and i like sampling microbrews and imports - not big on domestics, though if im watching hockey I'll slum it with Labatt Blue or Molson Ice, or more rarely PBR. I prefer Guinness usually, though not in summer. I don't do IPA's, thats the devils work. Generally prefer sours or ciders over beer though.

If drinking hard, courtesy of my girlfriend my drink of choice has become an amaretto sour, its nice and smooth, sweet, pleasant, and if made right hits you in all the right spots. Not looking for a fight or something that bites when im trying to relax, no need for something hard and heavy thats going to punch me in my tastebuds. If I am having something harder its usually something i mix up at home with Kraken rum, usually a rum and coke or a homemade coquito (especially around the holidays, its a caribbean thing). If out to dinner and not driving anywhere I will often sample cocktails that sound appealing, again usually prefer sweet and fruity.

 Farseer Anath'lan wrote:
Wine coolers (and box wine) definitely made it to Australia, but only box wine has lasted mainstream - that being said, I did find and nostalgia buy some West Coast Coolers a few months back.

Box wine is a cultural icon here with young kids - lots of party games revolve around it.

Fascinating. Here in ye olde college town, "Beer Pong" is absolutely a thing. I'm curious as to what one can do with box wine (other than drink it, of course).

Commissar von Toussaint wrote:

 Farseer Anath'lan wrote:
Wine coolers (and box wine) definitely made it to Australia, but only box wine has lasted mainstream - that being said, I did find and nostalgia buy some West Coast Coolers a few months back.

Box wine is a cultural icon here with young kids - lots of party games revolve around it.

Fascinating. Here in ye olde college town, "Beer Pong" is absolutely a thing. I'm curious as to what one can do with box wine (other than drink it, of course).

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Goon_of_Fortune

🙃 Kids

We do beer pong too - if you're feeling spicy you'll play it with "Little Fat Lamb" - an 8% "Cider" that comes in fruit flavours and 2L bottles.

As far as I'm concerned, a wine cooler is a device that chills your wine to the correct temperature for drinking...

 Farseer Anath'lan wrote:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Goon_of_Fortune

🙃 Kids

We do beer pong too - if you're feeling spicy you'll play it with "Little Fat Lamb" - an 8% "Cider" that comes in fruit flavours and 2L bottles.

Okay, two liter bottles of cider is genius. As to the game, wow, that's some serious wine drinking!

My daughter informs me that mixed drinks are the thing among the young kiddies these days. Lots of cocktails I've never heard of that seem to be some variation of vodka shots and something else. In my misspent youth, I recalled a "kamikaze" vendor who offered headbands for those who did three shots. Quite the sight to see people wandering the reenactment dressed like demented pilots, staggering around looking for a porta-potty.

Saturday night, 4 straight shots vodka or bacardi in a row, then 2 beers (currently great northern) over then next 15 minutes or so.
No time to muck around....

chaos0xomega wrote:
My go-tos are usually soft drinks. Arizona Ice Tea (big can for 99c) or a soda - usually Dr Pepper, though these days its the zero calorie version of it (or coke or sprite). Not diet though, i dont like the aftertaste/zero is more palatable generally speaking. I also recently discovered Red Cream Soda at White Castle and have been going nuts for it. My first love though, soda wise, is grape soda (sunkist or welch's preferred, fanta is ok).

I also vastly prefer zero sugar to the "diet" sodas. Whatever artificial sweetener they use for zero generally tastes better than whatever they use for diet. This is especially true of root beer. Diet root beer is a vile liquid that nobody in their right mind should drink, whereas zero sugar root beer (particularly A&W) tastes almost like the regular full-sugar stuff.

That Red Cream Soda sounds pretty good, but it's been a hot minute since the last time I went to a White Castle. There is one in my hometown, so maybe it's time to check it out. As for grape soda, I like the taste, but it always leaves a bitter aftertaste that I've never cared for.

As for my real go-to soda, I tend to drink a fair amount of zero sugar Mountain Dew. I get basically all of my caffeine from sodas as I don't drink much coffee or tea, and Mountain Dew has a lot of it. I haven't been a regular coffee drinker since I graduated college, and unless you put an absurd amount of sugar in tea, it is just leaf juice that those folks in Boston were right to throw into the harbor (I think I just offended every British person on Dakka just now ).

My go-to is usually a simple lager. My wife and a few of our friends are more snobbish with beer; the friends in particular go for the "Here's 1/3 of a pint of a cherry/bitumen/new car smell sour beer that only cost £8", whereas I'll usually just have a lager or a G&T.

Coffee and water to start, water throughout the work day, and milk with dinner.


As far as my relaxation drinks? I'm partial to Hot Damn or any cinnamon schnapps, and will also tip back Jaeger or vodka. Beer was usually Blue Moon until I found out that we finally imported Hoffbrau so that's my beer of choice nowadays.

 Valkyrie wrote:
My go-to is usually a simple lager. My wife and a few of our friends are more snobbish with beer; the friends in particular go for the "Here's 1/3 of a pint of a cherry/bitumen/new car smell sour beer that only cost £8", whereas I'll usually just have a lager or a G&T.

Are British beer snobs a thing? I thought that American hipsters pretty much owned the "small batch organic IPA with hints of clover crowd.

I thought there was something of a class divide between the beer, wine and cider crowds.

In the US, I think it's more within the various types of beverage. So domestic vs import, IPA vs Pilsner, etc.

Commissar von Toussaint wrote:


Are British beer snobs a thing?

Yes, unfortunately arseholes are universal.

Commissar von Toussaint wrote:

 Valkyrie wrote:
My go-to is usually a simple lager. My wife and a few of our friends are more snobbish with beer; the friends in particular go for the "Here's 1/3 of a pint of a cherry/bitumen/new car smell sour beer that only cost £8", whereas I'll usually just have a lager or a G&T.

Are British beer snobs a thing? I thought that American hipsters pretty much owned the "small batch organic IPA with hints of clover crowd.

I thought there was something of a class divide between the beer, wine and cider crowds.

In the US, I think it's more within the various types of beverage. So domestic vs import, IPA vs Pilsner, etc.

Very much so, craft beer places are popping up everywhere around here. The worst offender has to be Brewdog. I had to suffer visiting the one in Waterloo International a while back and it was close to £8 for a pint of mediocre lager. Luckily the company I work for owns the station development so they were paying for the beers that night.

 Valkyrie wrote:
Very much so, craft beer places are popping up everywhere around here. The worst offender has to be Brewdog. I had to suffer visiting the one in Waterloo International a while back and it was close to £8 for a pint of mediocre lager. Luckily the company I work for owns the station development so they were paying for the beers that night.

Sorry, it seems absurd for "craft beers" to be a thing anywhere in the Old World. You folks literally have establishments that go back hundreds of years. Seems to me to be the epitome of "craft."

I think that's why bourbon is treated with so much respect, since it's an indigenous refinement on distillation and the establishments go back to the foundation of the country (though due to Prohibition, some suffered an interruption in operations).

Indeed, my grandmother once told me that Prohibition boosted spirits and really transformed the beer culture, which had been all about Old World locally produced beers. She said that no one thought anything of kids being sent to the local biergarten to fetch their order.

After prohibition, American beer became like everything else - industrialized, homogenized, standardized. That only changed in the late 80s.

If it makes you feel better, microbreweries are starting to die off due to market oversaturation. Distilleries are emerging, and I'm sure there will be a market correction, but the product seems more varied.

So maybe the UK will get tired of the new hotness and go back to a jug of Old Overcoat.

Commissar von Toussaint wrote:

If it makes you feel better, microbreweries are starting to die off due to market oversaturation. Distilleries are emerging, and I'm sure there will be a market correction, but the product seems more varied.

A few thoughts on this one. . . So, a classmate of mine is (or at least was, he doesn't do the socials and we've lost touch since graduation) a brewmaster who formerly worked at a local brewery. Dude was an absolute NERD when it came to beer. During our study abroad to Germany, we took a tour of the Weihenstephaner brewery, and our tourguide, who was in his "brew master's" course (aka, getting essentially a master's degree in beer brewing) was thoroughly taken aback by someone asking in depth, knowledgeable questions.


Anyhow. . . Over many a pint, we'd talk about the industry and historical trends. One very brief one is, when the economy tanks, alcohol, but especially beer goes up. Basically, when you can't afford much else, you can get a pack of beer.

For many years in the US, many microbrews were too chaotic. Constantly coming out with something new and "different". The most egregious of these were the breweries who made almost exclusively IPA's. (personally, I think they kept having to go more and more extreme cuz you IPA lovers are destroying your tastebuds, and thus need more extreme crap to taste anything ) We were already starting to see the early stages of a market contraction even before Covid hit. Basically, people who loved beer were beginning to lose their adventurous spirit, and they began to settle in to their few favorites. The local market still had good variety, and most beer drinkers (at least here) do not buy just one brand/offering exclusively. I guess you could say that I am fairly "typical" or emblematic of the local beer scene: I have a few types/varieties of beer that I enjoy depending on the season, so I rotate through maybe a half dozen throughout the year. . . And so, even before Covid, per my classmate, people were showing the beginning of "settling in", and this was starting to show in beer sales numbers internally (ie, new Hoppy IPA made with boot leather wasn't selling as well as Tried and True OG IPA they'd been doing for 5-10 years)

Then. . . the contraction really hit locally during and post covid. Now, my thoughts for DURING covid is, because beer and wine shops were deemed "essential business" they were open, but many people were conscious of being in public, so they spent far less time just looking at beer, and they'd run in, grab their stuff real quick and get out. So, there's less time really for "discovery" unless you bought a seasonal box from a brewery that had "mystery seasonal offering A"

And then, as covid wore on, we really settled into our ways, and so breweries really had to slim down the offerings. I've already noticed those who didn't do that, are already gone.

The final sort of big problem industry wide, affects everyone in any economic venture: the rents are too damn high. The breweries who were smart with money and actually own their own facilities have been more able to weather the contraction, especially if they have a well regarded local beer. And, the more local coverage you can get, the better in this regard. The rent thing has probably killed off a lot more of the poorly ran breweries than anything else, and that's where the sort of market correction comes in to play. I know my classmate came to school constantly complaining about the owner of his brewery making terrible business decisions. . . The most egregious was the silly idea that people came to their taproom for the food FIRST, and the beer second. Reality was the complete opposite. My classmate kept pushing for a smaller, tighter menu of food, and let him focus on producing better beers in more quantity (owner also kept them chasing too many seasonal nonsense beers, rather than having 3-5 truly great offerings year round, with 1 seasonal at a time. . . they had 2-3 full time offerings and 7-8 seasonals). Another local brewery went under this year in some part because the rent he was paying for the space, couldn't handle the business he was doing. Like, the layout and parking meant it was an unpopular spot for beer and food, even if he had simplified to "build your own pizza" or "build your own burger"

So. . . TL;DR is:

1. breweries going too crazy with offerings spread themselves too thin
2. beer fan, even beer "snobs" started settling in to select brews, and didn't need or want nearly so much variety
3. Poor business decisions with regard to facilities and business ventures.


EDIT: locally, the cider scene has started to take off here. . . not like beer did though, I think the cider distillers (brewers??) are learning from microbrew beer mistakes in that they are keeping it relatively simple. A few steadfast offerings done better all the time. Keep seasonals to a low amount. Recognizing also that a lot of people are a bit seasonal in cider drinking as well (it does go well with summer heat)

 Ensis Ferrae wrote:

1. breweries going too crazy with offerings spread themselves too thin
2. beer fan, even beer "snobs" started settling in to select brews, and didn't need or want nearly so much variety
3. Poor business decisions with regard to facilities and business ventures.


EDIT: locally, the cider scene has started to take off here. . . not like beer did though, I think the cider distillers (brewers??) are learning from microbrew beer mistakes in that they are keeping it relatively simple. A few steadfast offerings done better all the time. Keep seasonals to a low amount. Recognizing also that a lot of people are a bit seasonal in cider drinking as well (it does go well with summer heat)

All of that is consistent with what I have seen, especially the flavor consolidation. People want a signature flavor, and maybe a variant or two, but that mainstay is what people come back for.

It can also get you actual distribution for off-site sales, which is the next logical step. One advantage distillers have is longer shelf life, so they can run batches when needed.

Cider has a key advantage beer doesn't - apple producers are naturally well-suited to make it. A lot of growers are finding success in making hard cider, which they can set aside for a "lean" year. This is causing others to lean into distilling, which is the next logical step. As one of the owners told me a couple of years back: making a brandy from apples is the ultimate hedge against a bad crop. Bottle it when you need it, otherwise, let it age. If there's a catastrophic frost (as happened in 2013), release the "special reserve" as a limited edition.

Wineries are doing the same thing.

Commissar von Toussaint wrote:


Cider has a key advantage beer doesn't - apple producers are naturally well-suited to make it. A lot of growers are finding success in making hard cider, which they can set aside for a "lean" year. This is causing others to lean into distilling, which is the next logical step. As one of the owners told me a couple of years back: making a brandy from apples is the ultimate hedge against a bad crop. Bottle it when you need it, otherwise, let it age. If there's a catastrophic frost (as happened in 2013), release the "special reserve" as a limited edition.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but aren't cider apples, like wine grapes, grown exclusively for drink making and are basically "inedible" as a fruit?

And, by inedible, I mean that, like wine grapes, they taste like gak when eaten straight off the tree.

 Ensis Ferrae wrote:

Commissar von Toussaint wrote:


Cider has a key advantage beer doesn't - apple producers are naturally well-suited to make it. A lot of growers are finding success in making hard cider, which they can set aside for a "lean" year. This is causing others to lean into distilling, which is the next logical step. As one of the owners told me a couple of years back: making a brandy from apples is the ultimate hedge against a bad crop. Bottle it when you need it, otherwise, let it age. If there's a catastrophic frost (as happened in 2013), release the "special reserve" as a limited edition.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but aren't cider apples, like wine grapes, grown exclusively for drink making and are basically "inedible" as a fruit?

And, by inedible, I mean that, like wine grapes, they taste like gak when eaten straight off the tree.

I believe that to be the case. Cider apples are meant for cider. However, cider is generally a seasonal drink, and it doesn't store well. If there is a late frost or some other calamity, the crop can be ruined and there will be no apples for the cider.

Hard cider keeps longer and you can charge more money for it. Distilling cider raises the price still more and also extends storage life. In fact, the longer one stores it, the more valuable it becomes. Thus, it is the perfect hedge against a bumper crop (which drives prices down) and a poor crop. If there's a glut of applies, distill a bunch of them. If there's a frost, open up the reserve to supplement your income. Cider brandy is delicious, by the way.

As a sidebar, if you follow agriculture at all, you will noticed that no one ever says the crop and prices are "just right." Either they lament overproduction or complain about a ruined crop.