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 Crablezworth wrote:
War on a new scale doesn't necessarily refer to model scale, just as likely it's referring to the scale of the battle. So while it likely isn't a mobile game, it probably is just silly apoc expansion for 30k no one wants so they can push the plastic knight lancer. If it was epic they'd probably say epic, if it was epic they'd show something more imo. I can hope that I'm wrong, but this all feels like wishful thinking until we see more.

The current theory is the game will be called Adeptus Astartes: The Horus Heresy, not Epic

 Crablezworth wrote:
War on a new scale doesn't necessarily refer to model scale, just as likely it's referring to the scale of the battle. So while it likely isn't a mobile game, it probably is just silly apoc expansion for 30k no one wants so they can push the plastic knight lancer. If it was epic they'd probably say epic, if it was epic they'd show something more imo. I can hope that I'm wrong, but this all feels like wishful thinking until we see more.

Giving The Horus Heresy rules for large armies would be like giving Adeptus Titanicus rules for titan maniples.

SamusDrake wrote:

 Crablezworth wrote:
War on a new scale doesn't necessarily refer to model scale, just as likely it's referring to the scale of the battle. So while it likely isn't a mobile game, it probably is just silly apoc expansion for 30k no one wants so they can push the plastic knight lancer. If it was epic they'd probably say epic, if it was epic they'd show something more imo. I can hope that I'm wrong, but this all feels like wishful thinking until we see more.

Giving The Horus Heresy rules for large armies would be like giving Adeptus Titanicus rules for titan maniples.

In fairness giving 40k apoc rules was just as useless, they still did it.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

SamusDrake wrote:

 Crablezworth wrote:
War on a new scale doesn't necessarily refer to model scale, just as likely it's referring to the scale of the battle. So while it likely isn't a mobile game, it probably is just silly apoc expansion for 30k no one wants so they can push the plastic knight lancer. If it was epic they'd probably say epic, if it was epic they'd show something more imo. I can hope that I'm wrong, but this all feels like wishful thinking until we see more.

Giving The Horus Heresy rules for large armies would be like giving Adeptus Titanicus rules for titan maniples.

It's possible, if it is indeed marine on marine I think that's probably a good thing RE AT, as much as people want more factions, gw's ability to allot time to that is suspect, better not to bite off more than they can chew.

 tauist wrote:

 Crablezworth wrote:
War on a new scale doesn't necessarily refer to model scale, just as likely it's referring to the scale of the battle. So while it likely isn't a mobile game, it probably is just silly apoc expansion for 30k no one wants so they can push the plastic knight lancer. If it was epic they'd probably say epic, if it was epic they'd show something more imo. I can hope that I'm wrong, but this all feels like wishful thinking until we see more.

The current theory is the game will be called Adeptus Astartes: The Horus Heresy, not Epic

Where is that coming from again?

Tsagualsa wrote:


Where is that coming from again?

Me. I comically mentioned it on the other thread, but I must own up to giving it my best deduction before posting.

SamusDrake wrote:

Tsagualsa wrote:


Where is that coming from again?

Me. I comically mentioned it on the other thread, but I must own up to giving it my best deduction before posting.

I mean, it's not the worst name to pick I'd theorized before that calling it Space Marine something something was too risky due to 'Granny Factor' with the video game coming around... (There's a popular saying in marketing departments that your product name needs to be unambiguous enough that a clueless granny that picks a present for her grandson would be likely to get the right one if she knew things like 'It's got little toy soldiers')

Exactly!

I spent a whole evening pretty much overthinking it, pretty much along the lines of this...

Tsagualsa wrote:

 tauist wrote:

 Crablezworth wrote:
War on a new scale doesn't necessarily refer to model scale, just as likely it's referring to the scale of the battle. So while it likely isn't a mobile game, it probably is just silly apoc expansion for 30k no one wants so they can push the plastic knight lancer. If it was epic they'd probably say epic, if it was epic they'd show something more imo. I can hope that I'm wrong, but this all feels like wishful thinking until we see more.

The current theory is the game will be called Adeptus Astartes: The Horus Heresy, not Epic

Where is that coming from again?

I see not wishful thinking at all




Automatically Appended Next Post:

SamusDrake wrote:
Exactly!

I spent a whole evening pretty much overthinking it, pretty much along the lines of this...

Such a good clip



If it marine on marine, hoping they don't bring titans into it too much, knights maybe but if the contents of the box isn't fun to play on its own or quickly overshadowed by larger units it'll feel like missed opportunity. Still think it's a book/expansion to push the lancer.

Well there is a new HH campaign book with a fabulous image of the Cerastus Lancer on the front cover. Not as fabulous as the Cerastus Lancer on the front cover of Doom of Molech - House Devine is insanely fabulous to behold - but fabulous all the same.

The N&R thread has been locked so thought might be a good time to come back to this thread, continue the discussion and talk about what people's plans are?

I am - at the very least - going to get the new rulebook. I don't need the Legionnaires as I already have a ton and burnt out on painting tiny marines, but I will have a look at the new Imperial Army stuff. It might be that I use some or all of them and there are a few cool human regiment proxies in Vanguard (I've always liked the idea of doing an airborne force) but will see.

Will definitely try and give the new game a thorough go and I know a few guys at my local club are really interested - that for me is the big benefit of the new game, a lot of people will only play a currently available game. It will also be a chance to help out my FLGS too, which obviously you couldn't really do with the community supported legacy editions.

What are people's plans?

Got to read it and give it a fair try, see if new people like it and keep on chugging while nudging people to try Armageddon on the side as well now that they've got the forces.

Personally I'm going in for the Auxilia, so I'll finally have some regular human meat sacks to go along with my superhuman, cyborg and mech armies

 Pacific wrote:


What are people's plans?

Get ahead of things

 Pacific wrote:
The N&R thread has been locked so thought might be a good time to come back to this thread, continue the discussion and talk about what people's plans are?

I am - at the very least - going to get the new rulebook. I don't need the Legionnaires as I already have a ton and burnt out on painting tiny marines, but I will have a look at the new Imperial Army stuff. It might be that I use some or all of them and there are a few cool human regiment proxies in Vanguard (I've always liked the idea of doing an airborne force) but will see.

Will definitely try and give the new game a thorough go and I know a few guys at my local club are really interested - that for me is the big benefit of the new game, a lot of people will only play a currently available game. It will also be a chance to help out my FLGS too, which obviously you couldn't really do with the community supported legacy editions.

What are people's plans?

I'll be piling in at full tilt. My spending on GW these days is pretty much Titanicus, Necromunda and that's it. I'm pleased that the game that got me into wargaming is coming back with piles of plastics and a familiar ruleset.

 Crablezworth wrote:

Tsagualsa wrote:

 tauist wrote:

 Crablezworth wrote:
War on a new scale doesn't necessarily refer to model scale, just as likely it's referring to the scale of the battle. So while it likely isn't a mobile game, it probably is just silly apoc expansion for 30k no one wants so they can push the plastic knight lancer. If it was epic they'd probably say epic, if it was epic they'd show something more imo. I can hope that I'm wrong, but this all feels like wishful thinking until we see more.

The current theory is the game will be called Adeptus Astartes: The Horus Heresy, not Epic

Where is that coming from again?

I see not wishful thinking at all




Automatically Appended Next Post:

SamusDrake wrote:
Exactly!

I spent a whole evening pretty much overthinking it, pretty much along the lines of this...

Such a good clip



If it marine on marine, hoping they don't bring titans into it too much, knights maybe but if the contents of the box isn't fun to play on its own or quickly overshadowed by larger units it'll feel like missed opportunity. Still think it's a book/expansion to push the lancer.

How's them crow taste son

I'm hella hyped for Legiones Imperialis and want the rules in epub + 3000 points of IXth and a maniple of Titans

 Pacific wrote:

What are people's plans?

for now, waiting if Mantic is coming up with plastic Xenos or not and than waiting what happens after and how long it takes for IL to be released

Yes I am keeping a close eye on the new Warpath too Kodos. Firstly to see that game as it sounds promising, but also I like the sound of 12mm plastic Plague - I am thinking of using them as 'giants' of some sort of Alien encountered by the Great Crusade. Perhaps of the sort that Mortarion had on his homeworld, of which we never got to see?

 tauist wrote:

 Crablezworth wrote:

Tsagualsa wrote:

 tauist wrote:

 Crablezworth wrote:
War on a new scale doesn't necessarily refer to model scale, just as likely it's referring to the scale of the battle. So while it likely isn't a mobile game, it probably is just silly apoc expansion for 30k no one wants so they can push the plastic knight lancer. If it was epic they'd probably say epic, if it was epic they'd show something more imo. I can hope that I'm wrong, but this all feels like wishful thinking until we see more.

The current theory is the game will be called Adeptus Astartes: The Horus Heresy, not Epic

Where is that coming from again?

I see not wishful thinking at all




Automatically Appended Next Post:

SamusDrake wrote:
Exactly!

I spent a whole evening pretty much overthinking it, pretty much along the lines of this...

Such a good clip



If it marine on marine, hoping they don't bring titans into it too much, knights maybe but if the contents of the box isn't fun to play on its own or quickly overshadowed by larger units it'll feel like missed opportunity. Still think it's a book/expansion to push the lancer.

How's them crow taste son

I'm hella hyped for Legiones Imperialis and want the rules in epub + 3000 points of IXth and a maniple of Titans

Happy to be wrong

I'm pretty stoked even with the delay

I am going to build an Epic force parallel to my HH 2.0 marines. So every unit in the HH force will at least have an Epic counterpart not the other way around of course.

Hype train is unreal!

I've got some Civitas scenery unmade that I can crack on with while we wait for the revised release date. I'll probably repaint my FW Baneblades and shadowswords, 'cause they look close-ish to the new sizes. apart from that I'm pondering that if titans are a 30% allied contingent, how big a game I need to play to field my entire titan collection.

 Pacific wrote:


What are people's plans?

When Epic first came out (AT and Space Marine), the person who taught me the game was...maybe not someone who should ever teach a game. I was fairly put off by Epic after only a few games. As a result, I've never owned anything Epic. No rules. Not a single model.

LI will likely be my first Epic purchase. I'll probably paint up blue loyalists vs red renegades. I don't know if that means needing 2 starter boxes. A box of Rhinos, a box of Land Raiders. I'll hope that Orks and Eldar follow eventually, but I'm not expecting it and I'll guess I'll have to go to 3rd parties for them.

Those are my rough plans. I'm excited to finally get into Epic properly after all these years. Whether it's through the new LI rules or NetEpic or another community rule book, who knows.

I am a small-scale-only player, really into Epic Armageddon.

But I am going to get the starter, try the rules, switch some minis around (not interested in SM vehicles), and decide it I invest further in the game (economically and local-community wise).

 skeleton wrote:
Will buy but hope the rules are like armagedon like those rules the best. Its a shame when its only 30k would like to own eldar and ork models from gw. i do have a 3d printed ork army for EA.
missing onlu some stompas and supper stompas, i did make some stompas on my own and they look like those from the book but would like to have the real ones.

Sadly the rules are 2nd ed based, not 4th.

Which is probably the right decision for them. 2nd ed was the simplified game version of 1st and 4th was for all the grown up epic players who liked wargames. The rules require too much testing when doing new stuff for a company like GW, plys 2nd ed was more of a game and that is more of their market.

I will get it, play, suspect I will then go back to E:A.

Personably will not be going to going to rebuy my collection in a different scale. (Space Marine Scout scale ) If people want to play it lots and its an OK game will just print it.

The_Real_Chris wrote:

 skeleton wrote:
Will buy but hope the rules are like armagedon like those rules the best. Its a shame when its only 30k would like to own eldar and ork models from gw. i do have a 3d printed ork army for EA.
missing onlu some stompas and supper stompas, i did make some stompas on my own and they look like those from the book but would like to have the real ones.

Sadly the rules are 2nd ed based, not 4th.

Which is probably the right decision for them. 2nd ed was the simplified game version of 1st and 4th was for all the grown up epic players who liked wargames. The rules require too much testing when doing new stuff for a company like GW, plys 2nd ed was more of a game and that is more of their market.

I will get it, play, suspect I will then go back to E:A.

Personably will not be going to going to rebuy my collection in a different scale. (Space Marine Scout scale ) If people want to play it lots and its an OK game will just print it.

Can you elaborate more on 2nd vs 4th, I've got very little frame of refference having never played any of them. People are already complaining about weapons being too crunchy/detailed in the previews, which I'm not sure I understand.

They have said the game is going to be based on 2nd edition, but I think given the amount of special rules for units, weapons profiles, types of weapons and key words, I actually wonder if it will end up more like 4th.

From the LI Terminator profile we have seen it was something like 8 USRs to describe it. 4th/Armageddon had 4 USRs for a terminator (I think?) while Epic SM 2nd had 1 if you counted their invulnerable save, although I appreciate the rules were written in a different way.

Crablezworth - it would be a fairly long description of how different Epic SM and Armageddon are if you included everything, they play as very different types of games. In summary, SM 2nd is more abstract, less granular, much faster playing. You secretly put down orders for units at the start of a turn and have to guess what your opponent will do for theirs, then you reveal. One side moves then the other, although firing is alternating.
Armageddon using alternating activations making it much more fluid. You try and shoot at the enemy to put blast markers on them, but closing in to melee or 'firefight' (shooting at very close range) and ideally then the unit breaks. Weaponry is a lot more granular (you have anti-infantry and anti-tank type weapons which only work on either) - it's actually a lot closer to some WW2-type games I have played, in terms of how it tries to replicate real life warfare, than it is compared to a lot of GWs other games.

Although for some reason this complexity is reversed for Titan damage tracking: SM 2nd has a wonderful scattering shot mechanic and damage tables, while Armageddon essentially has an HP bar for Titans and 'Lords of War'.

Granular is the wrong choice of words to use for describing Armageddon's weaponry, it's very much not that in the context of typical GW-like games. You have guns that hit infantry or vehicles which can be saved against and big guns that hit both while negating saves, skipping a lot of regular Warhammer faff with reduced steps. There are a handful of special rules, but they are very universal and potent instead of little shifts in probabilities. They are also doled out rather sparingly, with most units having very few if any.

I really can't decide whether I'm happy for nuEpic or not...

I had just recently started and was on my way to building an oldEpic pair of armies to try and kickstart some games. GW releasing nuEpic does two things...

- It means it's probably going to be harder to kickstart a legacy ruleset group, so I'll probably end up locked into the new rules even if I preferred the older editions.

- Secondly.... 3D printing made up a large portion of my Epic stuff, and I don't like 3D printing models that can be bought directly from the manufacturer. Soooo, now I have to decide if I'm going to keep 3D printing my armies for pennies, or pay whatever insane price GW sets for their models. We haven't heard anything about prices yet, but I can't imagine it's going to be anything less than insanely expensive.

In many ways, I would have rathered just go on my merry way 3D printing up my 8mm hordes and trying to kickstart a local gaming group.

I think of Aeronautica Imperialis, where GW releasing version 2 of it provided us some great new models... but simultaneously the rules sucked enough that they might as well have not released it.

So, as big as a fan as I am of Epic, I dunno if I'm going to buy big into this. I'll definitely grab some models coz I love tiny tanks, but whether I get the boxed set/rules/full army/etc, dunno, maybe. Also I spent way too much money on Aeronautica crap recently because it was being discontinued, so my GW budget is already way over for this year.

Looking forward to seeing the full rules for LI.

Only thing that makes me a bit concerned about it at the moment is if the pasetbin list of units for SM and the normies is all we get for now with the rest being spoon fed DLC.

If they go down the DLC rute i'll hold of and wait untill more units exists and get the "real" book later on.
I'm not really interested in having to get a new bookshelf for just unit rules.

They've done the DLC method for AI, AT, and NEC so they'll definitely do it here. You can wait if you want to, but it will likely be a few years before you get what you want.

 Breotan wrote:
They've done the DLC method for AI, AT, and NEC so they'll definitely do it here. You can wait if you want to, but it will likely be a few years before you get what you want.

Or potentially never. I'm not on top of all the current GW games, but isn't it standard practice these days for them to spread rules over as many books as possible and never release a single book that contains everything?

Not like the olden days when an Epic boxed set came with all rules necessary to play the game with both what's in the box and anything you might buy.

 Crablezworth wrote:


Can you elaborate more on 2nd vs 4th, I've got very little frame of refference having never played any of them. People are already complaining about weapons being too crunchy/detailed in the previews, which I'm not sure I understand.

So 2nd ed was simple statlines, massive armies, crowded deployment zones and a game style of 'surprise' with hidden orders, and funky special rules for a few units given flavour. The gameplay in practice was grinding into each other around the objectives. Morale reflected that with when you hit your break point testing to have the remainder of the formation removed (so a formation of 10 tanks was more fragile than 11, and so on).

4th ed was fewer units (rarely more than a hundred per side and normally far less), more detailed units with differentiation between weapon and target types, and many units got a lot tougher. The gameplay started with a more varied deployment instead of simply being in each zone, and the possibility for rapid movement and not starting in 2 long lines tended to make for a more freewheeling battle. Formations would routinely break through the enemy line, go round the flanks, etc. Gameplay was a lot more trying to assault in optimal ways or getting enemies in crossfires. Morale was completely different, using blast markers to supress enemy fire and stop activations and when you broke rather than be removed it was again rapid movement.

In general in 2nd ed you wanted to hit something until it broke, in 4th ed there was an advantage to firing wildly in all directions to put blast markers everywhere and stop the enemy activating reliably.