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2023/05/19 11:38:49
Subject: Regular Space Marines are still a thing in 10th, right?
I'm sure this has been posted before, so I'll spoiler it, but it's not exactly hard to see why Primaris Marines annoy many people:
Spoiler:
The Ballard of 'Bigger Batman'
Imagine DC Comics sitting around and trying to decide how to boost comic sales over the next few years.
"I know," a writer says, "Let's make Bigger Batman."
The market analyst shuffles through some data and says "There may actually be consumer interest in making Batman bigger. The story line does reference him being a peak physical specimen, but he's always drawn the same size as the other male characters. I think the fans would react well to a larger Batman."
"No," says the writer. "I don't mean that we should just draw Batman bigger. That would be stupid and I wouldn't be creating anything new. Let's make Bigger Batman, a totally new character."
"Um," says the analyst, but the the writer presses hard for what he is calling his creative contribution to the legacy of comics and the director likes the projection for how new characters boost sales so in the next series, they introduce Bigger Batman.
It turns out that Bruce Wayne has a brother. Chad Wayne is bigger and stronger and faster and better looking than Bruce. He was separated at birth through a hospital mix up and his adopted parents were killed in a mugging gone wrong in a way that was just like Bruce's story but more tragic. He took over the adopted family's business empire that was just like Bruce's but bigger and now he has come to Gotham in its hour of need to do Bruce's job but better.
He has the Bigger Batmobile and Bigger Batarangs and pretty soon he has the Bigger Batsignal. It's actually hard to tell the Batsignal from the Bigger Batsignal if they aren't both on together since they are exactly the same except in proportion, but the bigger engine in the Bigger Batmobile gets Bigger Batman to the scene first unless he's solving a bigger crime somewhere else in which case people look mildly disappointed when they realize that it's just Batman that has arrived and often choose to wait for his brother.
"So, thanks Batman. We really appreciate you showing up to save us from this bank robbery, but we'll be fine, really, and Bigger Batman should be along at any minute."
Pretty soon, Bruce Wayne stops putting on the Batsuit at all which is just as well because the Batsignal (now known as the Little Batsignal) has been put in storage. Bruce develops a drinking problem and eventually people in Gotham forget that Little Batman was ever a thing.
In the story the writer has created, all of this makes perfect sense. Commissioner Gordon likes Bigger Batman because he's better at solving crime. The citizens of Gotham like Bigger Batman because he makes them safer. Vicki Vale likes Bigger Batman because he's better looking and has a bigger dick.
As a comic fan, I fething hate Bigger Batman, and not for any kind of internal inconsistency with the story. I hate Bigger Batman because with a few words- with nothing more than a few exclamation points, really- the writer has made a beloved character with decades of rich backstory into the smaller and less impressive version of itself. Bigger Batman doesn't add anything positive to the story unless you are actually going for satire, but he does feth up the existing character of Batman.
That's why I hate the Primaris marines.
mrFickle wrote: Are primaris in the terminator armour? I thought they couldn’t fit in terminator armour and so terminators were still first born
The fluff is arbitrary and will change to be whatever GW needs it to be.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2023/05/19 11:43:36
They still could have just called them regular Space Marines. I'm sure they would have sold just as well. Maybe better. And they also wouldn't have to write a bunch of silly lore or risk annoying their customers.
Doubtful. I'd bet dollars to donuts the haters would launch off on gw being 'lazy' and 'just' making bigger sms. They'd have had the opportunity to refresh the line, clean out thr clutter and they bottled it in favour of a zero-effort cash grab. Etc etc.
'Malibu Stacy with a new hat'. I already have all my marines, I don't need to buy more' would be the standard response. And do you seriously think people won't see it as 'gw wants me to re-buy my army'?
Thing is, there are other reasons to consider as well. Gw is thinking in terms of ten or twenty years. There is only do much 'refreshing' you can do. Sonetimes you need 'new' stuff and sometimes you need to start from scratch and rebuild. Plus there is the Charterhouse legacy and gw's trying to control/protect their own vision/ip - its easier to copyright 'intercessor' than 'tactical marine'. Guarantee you they are still hella bitter about that.
Primaris are that plan. Marine line was mined out. Could it have been done better? Absolutely. I do maintain though that there was no way of doing it without annoying someone.
You know what? I think you make strong points and you're absolutely right.
Now, I do think they could have done it better. A new version of the armour would have been much less intrusive and out-of-place with decades of history and lore and achieved much the same results. And I wouldn't have minded if they said, "look these guys are supposed to be 7-feet tall in power-armour, the old models were a bit small, so we're making the new range a bit bigger". The new lore to make them 8+ feet tall and all that grates me a bit. I'm not sure people realize how alien huge 8 feet tall really is.
To put it in perspective, here is Shaq (~7 feet tall - good size for a superhuman marine) with normal people:
And here he is next to Yao Ming (7.5 feet tall):
Now imagine you're ~9-foot tall Primaris marine. In bare feet, Yao's head wouldn't come up their nipples. In power-armour it would be more like their sternum.
Which is ridiculous.
What's more - the new models don't represent a 8-9-foot tall person in power armour, they represent a 7-foot tall person in power armour. So the lore isn't even necessary. They're just the size the old marines should have been. I'm a bit worried it will never end and we'll end up playing 40K with G.I.Joe sized "miniatures".
NOW .... apologies for the huge rant ... all that said, I do actually agree with you! This is just me rambling about minor gripes for fun.
This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2023/05/19 13:36:21
2023/05/19 13:33:34
Subject: Regular Space Marines are still a thing in 10th, right?
Crimson wrote: Primaris models are actually scaled to be roughly seven feet tall. They're about 38mm tall, whilst GW's current normal humans are around 32mm tall.
That's what I said.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
H.B.M.C. wrote: I'm sure this has been posted before, so I'll spoiler it, but it's not exactly hard to see why Primaris Marines annoy many people:
Spoiler:
The Ballard of 'Bigger Batman'
Imagine DC Comics sitting around and trying to decide how to boost comic sales over the next few years.
"I know," a writer says, "Let's make Bigger Batman."
The market analyst shuffles through some data and says "There may actually be consumer interest in making Batman bigger. The story line does reference him being a peak physical specimen, but he's always drawn the same size as the other male characters. I think the fans would react well to a larger Batman."
"No," says the writer. "I don't mean that we should just draw Batman bigger. That would be stupid and I wouldn't be creating anything new. Let's make Bigger Batman, a totally new character."
"Um," says the analyst, but the the writer presses hard for what he is calling his creative contribution to the legacy of comics and the director likes the projection for how new characters boost sales so in the next series, they introduce Bigger Batman.
It turns out that Bruce Wayne has a brother. Chad Wayne is bigger and stronger and faster and better looking than Bruce. He was separated at birth through a hospital mix up and his adopted parents were killed in a mugging gone wrong in a way that was just like Bruce's story but more tragic. He took over the adopted family's business empire that was just like Bruce's but bigger and now he has come to Gotham in its hour of need to do Bruce's job but better.
He has the Bigger Batmobile and Bigger Batarangs and pretty soon he has the Bigger Batsignal. It's actually hard to tell the Batsignal from the Bigger Batsignal if they aren't both on together since they are exactly the same except in proportion, but the bigger engine in the Bigger Batmobile gets Bigger Batman to the scene first unless he's solving a bigger crime somewhere else in which case people look mildly disappointed when they realize that it's just Batman that has arrived and often choose to wait for his brother.
"So, thanks Batman. We really appreciate you showing up to save us from this bank robbery, but we'll be fine, really, and Bigger Batman should be along at any minute."
Pretty soon, Bruce Wayne stops putting on the Batsuit at all which is just as well because the Batsignal (now known as the Little Batsignal) has been put in storage. Bruce develops a drinking problem and eventually people in Gotham forget that Little Batman was ever a thing.
In the story the writer has created, all of this makes perfect sense. Commissioner Gordon likes Bigger Batman because he's better at solving crime. The citizens of Gotham like Bigger Batman because he makes them safer. Vicki Vale likes Bigger Batman because he's better looking and has a bigger dick.
As a comic fan, I fething hate Bigger Batman, and not for any kind of internal inconsistency with the story. I hate Bigger Batman because with a few words- with nothing more than a few exclamation points, really- the writer has made a beloved character with decades of rich backstory into the smaller and less impressive version of itself. Bigger Batman doesn't add anything positive to the story unless you are actually going for satire, but he does feth up the existing character of Batman.
That's why I hate the Primaris marines.
Ah so good!
Sums up my feelings perfectly.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2023/05/19 13:39:16
2023/05/20 00:24:22
Subject: Regular Space Marines are still a thing in 10th, right?
I like the aesthetic of Gravis marines as they remind me of 30K MKIII and logically 40k marines would up armour themselves if needed, so I just head canon that Gravis are just that.
Other than that yeah I agree with the above, bigger batman is a good example and as for are Firstborn going away, yes, GW recent article on this was hilarious as they both say that no, they are not going away but here is how they are being phased out... kay
2023/05/20 00:38:18
Subject: Regular Space Marines are still a thing in 10th, right?
H.B.M.C. wrote: I'm sure this has been posted before, so I'll spoiler it, but it's not exactly hard to see why Primaris Marines annoy many people:
Spoiler:
The Ballard of 'Bigger Batman'
Imagine DC Comics sitting around and trying to decide how to boost comic sales over the next few years.
"I know," a writer says, "Let's make Bigger Batman."
The market analyst shuffles through some data and says "There may actually be consumer interest in making Batman bigger. The story line does reference him being a peak physical specimen, but he's always drawn the same size as the other male characters. I think the fans would react well to a larger Batman."
"No," says the writer. "I don't mean that we should just draw Batman bigger. That would be stupid and I wouldn't be creating anything new. Let's make Bigger Batman, a totally new character."
"Um," says the analyst, but the the writer presses hard for what he is calling his creative contribution to the legacy of comics and the director likes the projection for how new characters boost sales so in the next series, they introduce Bigger Batman.
It turns out that Bruce Wayne has a brother. Chad Wayne is bigger and stronger and faster and better looking than Bruce. He was separated at birth through a hospital mix up and his adopted parents were killed in a mugging gone wrong in a way that was just like Bruce's story but more tragic. He took over the adopted family's business empire that was just like Bruce's but bigger and now he has come to Gotham in its hour of need to do Bruce's job but better.
He has the Bigger Batmobile and Bigger Batarangs and pretty soon he has the Bigger Batsignal. It's actually hard to tell the Batsignal from the Bigger Batsignal if they aren't both on together since they are exactly the same except in proportion, but the bigger engine in the Bigger Batmobile gets Bigger Batman to the scene first unless he's solving a bigger crime somewhere else in which case people look mildly disappointed when they realize that it's just Batman that has arrived and often choose to wait for his brother.
"So, thanks Batman. We really appreciate you showing up to save us from this bank robbery, but we'll be fine, really, and Bigger Batman should be along at any minute."
Pretty soon, Bruce Wayne stops putting on the Batsuit at all which is just as well because the Batsignal (now known as the Little Batsignal) has been put in storage. Bruce develops a drinking problem and eventually people in Gotham forget that Little Batman was ever a thing.
In the story the writer has created, all of this makes perfect sense. Commissioner Gordon likes Bigger Batman because he's better at solving crime. The citizens of Gotham like Bigger Batman because he makes them safer. Vicki Vale likes Bigger Batman because he's better looking and has a bigger dick.
As a comic fan, I fething hate Bigger Batman, and not for any kind of internal inconsistency with the story. I hate Bigger Batman because with a few words- with nothing more than a few exclamation points, really- the writer has made a beloved character with decades of rich backstory into the smaller and less impressive version of itself. Bigger Batman doesn't add anything positive to the story unless you are actually going for satire, but he does feth up the existing character of Batman.
That's why I hate the Primaris marines.
mrFickle wrote: Are primaris in the terminator armour? I thought they couldn’t fit in terminator armour and so terminators were still first born
The fluff is arbitrary and will change to be whatever GW needs it to be.
Replace Bigger Batman with Edgier Batman and you are firmly in the 90's
Spoiler:
2023/05/20 02:22:16
Subject: Regular Space Marines are still a thing in 10th, right?
... so, basically, they want them to look more like toys to attract, well, maybe not "younger kids", but "sales".
It's a sad state. I remember Games Workshop way back before it was even Games Workshop. When it was two dudes writing Fighting Fantasy game-books. And even after that, well into the 40K era, they were proper gamers, it was really all about making a fun, creative game. 2nd Edition BloodBowl nailed it (not the new "Second Season Edition"), the proper 2nd edition from 1989 or whenever it was released. Such a good miniature game. People wanted to play the game first - buying miniatures was a means to an end.
It's dissapointing that it's become all about hawking plastic.
The "Grumpy Grognards" thread is in the Dakka Discussions subforum
On a serious note, for al lmy years with40k (3th-7th) I've never really wanted a marine army, and I had 7 different armies then. The reason was the absurd look of the models, with proportions as if they were designed to star in a Nick Park movie.
And this year, my first kill team is, what do you know, Intercessors. Marines that actually look badass now.
2023/05/20 07:19:22
Subject: Re:Regular Space Marines are still a thing in 10th, right?
... so, basically, they want them to look more like toys to attract, well, maybe not "younger kids", but "sales".
It's a sad state. I remember Games Workshop way back before it was even Games Workshop. When it was two dudes writing Fighting Fantasy game-books. And even after that, well into the 40K era, they were proper gamers, it was really all about making a fun, creative game. 2nd Edition BloodBowl nailed it (not the new "Second Season Edition"), the proper 2nd edition from 1989 or whenever it was released. Such a good miniature game. People wanted to play the game first - buying miniatures was a means to an end.
It's dissapointing that it's become all about hawking plastic.
The "Grumpy Grognards" thread is in the Dakka Discussions subforum
On a serious note, for al lmy years with40k (3th-7th) I've never really wanted a marine army, and I had 7 different armies then. The reason was the absurd look of the models, with proportions as if they were designed to star in a Nick Park movie.
And this year, my first kill team is, what do you know, Intercessors. Marines that actually look badass now.
Haha. Yeah. Those old ones definitely looked like muppets.
The funny thing is, I remember buying them and painting them back in the day and thinking they were super cool. I look at them now and it's like, "woah". So weird and cartoony.
... but in my opinion, so was everything else. At least everything GW were making. Very cartoony with very strange proportions. Huge fists on everything, massive weapons, etc. So I dunno why you singled out marines.
Anyway I've changed my mind a bit since the post you quoted. I still think they could/should have done it better, and I wish they weren't quite so big, but the models aren't that bad. They're all still on 32mm bases, and I guess for a 7+ foot tall person in power army they're not ridiculously over-sized. I'm still concerned with the general trend though. It's not only marines getting bigger. Orcs are huger and huger too. Some of the orc models are bigger than ogres. And the Halflings in BloodBowl are now all on 32mm bases. And massive "halflings" too ...
2023/05/20 08:02:14
Subject: Regular Space Marines are still a thing in 10th, right?
Maybe it's some more general trend? I have the same problem in Warmachine, where older models look like underdeveloped children next to their modern counterparts (even the same units).
2023/05/20 08:03:58
Subject: Regular Space Marines are still a thing in 10th, right?
Cyel wrote: Maybe it's some more general trend? I have the same problem in Warmachine, where older models look like underdeveloped children next to their modern counterparts (even the same units).
Hmmm ... yes and no. I think it's mainly a GW thing, but GW dominates the market and dictates the "trends" to third-party miniature makers to some extent. So that does create a "trend" in the end.
Neither here nor there really, but back in the day (before my time) there were a lot of "more realistic" miniatures. But they were tiny and hard to paint. Some of them were beginning to exaggerate some features just because people figured out that slightly cartoony features looked better on a gaming table and were easier to paint. Games Workshop just took that to level 20 with models that had fists as big as their head and weapons that would weigh 100kg in real life. In "modern times" they've been toning it down more and more, culminating so far it seems in the "new less cartoon orcs" (sidepoint: I wonder if 10th will feature the "new orcs" too?). But a lot of miniature lines for less-well-known-games stayed with pretty realistic proportions the whole time.
I don't know anything about Warmachine, but it seems like it's basically just a bit of a copy of WH40K. Which isn't bad, it might be way better, I wouldn't know - just saying that I'm guessing their miniature range would probably follow whatever 40K is doing.
This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2023/05/21 06:29:24
2023/05/21 06:45:28
Subject: Regular Space Marines are still a thing in 10th, right?
Moorecox wrote: The sooner they send the last firstborn to legends the better AFAIC.
^This is the plebian take of lesser individuals.
Right, I love Primaris models(and have 7k+ worth), but yah know what...MKIII, IV & VI are where it's at from a classic "40k" view. My RT Salamanders consisted of mkvi squads w mkiii Sargeants. That is the true way.
It's nice to finally be able to have modern plastics in the classic armours...
2023/05/21 07:05:59
Subject: Regular Space Marines are still a thing in 10th, right?
Moorecox wrote: The sooner they send the last firstborn to legends the better AFAIC.
^This is the plebian take of lesser individuals.
Right, I love Primaris models(and have 7k+ worth), but yah know what...MKIII, IV & VI are where it's at from a classic "40k" view. My RT Salamanders consisted of mkvi squads w mkiii Sargeants. That is the true way.
It's nice to finally be able to have modern plastics in the classic armours...
Those MkVI ones are fantastic models IMO.
They're actually very close to Primaris-sized too. I don't have a problem with this so much. It's more the lore that says Primaris are 9-feet tall or whatever. I hope that as Primaris slowly replace old SM's, they dial that way back in the lore.
The scale below all looks pretty good for a Primaris Marine that is supposed to be about 7-feet tall.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2023/05/21 07:07:02
2023/05/21 07:13:37
Subject: Regular Space Marines are still a thing in 10th, right?
Neither here nor there really, but back in the day (before my time) there were a lot of "more realistic" miniatures. But they were tiny and hard to paint. Some of them were beginning to exaggerate some features just because people figured out that slightly cartoony features looked better on a gaming table and were easier to paint. Games Workshop just took that to level 20 with models that had fists as big as their head and weapons that would weigh 100kg in real life.
Hmm, I admit I don't know a lot about historical ranges, but from what I see they are often very goofy and cartoony. The same can be said for older ones. While there may have been more realistic ones, I mostly recall seeing the ones with round Soldier Shweik faces and trousers three sizes too big. Maybe for GW it was a choice or following an unspoken convention, maybe for historicals it was limits in the casting technology or tge lack of skill of sculptors, the cartoony look was there.
I even asked about it in the thread about a historical wargames zine, but nobody answered me.
There's one thing that caught my interest. All (almost all?) these models seem to have such an incredibly goofy aesthetic. Is it some kind of a convention for historicals, to lessen the horror of the real fighting/suffering you recreate? All these soldiers have such cartoonish proportions, kindly and broad hobbit faces and badly oversized clothes which makes them look like they are from some Looney Tunes Miniature Wargame or Asterix&Obelix the Wargame.
The technology for casting models with realistic proportions and poses is there, for sure. So why the goofiness?
2023/05/21 08:45:08
Subject: Regular Space Marines are still a thing in 10th, right?
Neither here nor there really, but back in the day (before my time) there were a lot of "more realistic" miniatures. But they were tiny and hard to paint. Some of them were beginning to exaggerate some features just because people figured out that slightly cartoony features looked better on a gaming table and were easier to paint. Games Workshop just took that to level 20 with models that had fists as big as their head and weapons that would weigh 100kg in real life.
Hmm, I admit I don't know a lot about historical ranges, but from what I see they are often very goofy and cartoony. The same can be said for older ones. While there may have been more realistic ones, I mostly recall seeing the ones with round Soldier Shweik faces and trousers three sizes too big. Maybe for GW it was a choice or following an unspoken convention, maybe for historicals it was limits in the casting technology or tge lack of skill of sculptors, the cartoony look was there.
I even asked about it in the thread about a historical wargames zine, but nobody answered me.
There's one thing that caught my interest. All (almost all?) these models seem to have such an incredibly goofy aesthetic. Is it some kind of a convention for historicals, to lessen the horror of the real fighting/suffering you recreate? All these soldiers have such cartoonish proportions, kindly and broad hobbit faces and badly oversized clothes which makes them look like they are from some Looney Tunes Miniature Wargame or Asterix&Obelix the Wargame.
The technology for casting models with realistic proportions and poses is there, for sure. So why the goofiness?
I think a lot of it was just that it's hard to sculpt (and paint) teeny details - so they just made the details bigger. And then realized that those "cartoon proportions" also looked much better from a distance on the tabletop.
As an example of what I'm talking about, here are some old-school war-gaming minis. Obviously they're still a bit goofy-looking ...
... but nothing compared to the level that GW would ramp-it-up to with head-sized fists and feet that are longer than thighs...
Personally, I like "realistic" minis, but even I have to admit that the outlandish GW models looked way better on the table. I think they over-did it a bit, but still. I suppose now that they're just making "everything bigger" they don't need to rely so much on cartoon-proportions (?).
...
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2023/05/21 08:50:38
2023/05/21 08:48:10
Subject: Re:Regular Space Marines are still a thing in 10th, right?
Haha. Well, I believe those are Foundry models and I think a lot of what you're talking about is due to their famous Foundry old three-layer speed-painting system that really emphasizes contrast.
Personally, I really like those. Both the miniatures and the paint-jobs, for gaming purposes. They look great on a gaming table and really not that cartoon-like when viewed from a distance. As a side-point (and an experienced painter), this is a mistake a see a lot of noobs make when painting armies ... they try and emulate a "display piece" style, and under normal lighting from tabletop distane (or even pretty close tbh), nobody will notice your blends or teeny details. Especially when they don't include unrealistically amplified levels of contrast. But that's a seperate subject.
To me the Foundry miniatures are prefect for wargaming. They still look good on a tabletop, they're very simple and quick to paint and they're not so huge that the clutter the gaming space.
They don't look anywhere near as "cartoon" when viewed from actual gaming distance:
... and that's another peeve of mine with GW. They rely on huge, flashy models for sales. Which is fine, I can't critisize them for selling what sells best. But it really is detrimental to the game becasue it takes up so much space. In 40K you're playing what are supposed to be huge battles with in some cases as little as 30 individual troops per side. And one or two of those being the size of G.I.Joe action figures. That's not a huge battle, it's a light skirmish between a couple of giants and their bodyguads.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2023/05/21 09:06:04
2023/05/21 16:57:22
Subject: Regular Space Marines are still a thing in 10th, right?
Moorecox wrote: As more firstborn units are replaced, like Sternguard, firstborn will eventually be forgotten over time.
GW didn't forget Genestealer Cults, Harlequins or even Squats. Do you think GW is going to forget the biggest breadwinner faction that propelled their business for 25+ years? Forget that the Tactical Squad outsold, I believe, entire factions? Do you think GW will give up an opportunity to resell you yet another version of Marines in the future? The Marines that populate like 95% of the 40k timeline, from the end of the Horus Heresy through to M41?
Moorecox wrote: As more firstborn units are replaced, like Sternguard, firstborn will eventually be forgotten over time.
GW didn't forget Genestealer Cults, Harlequins or even Squats. Do you think GW is going to forget the biggest breadwinner faction that propelled their business for 25+ years? Forget that the Tactical Squad outsold, I believe, entire factions? Do you think GW will give up an opportunity to resell you yet another version of Marines in the future? The Marines that populate like 95% of the 40k timeline, from the end of the Horus Heresy through to M41?
I don't.
Not only that, the current tactical kit is a top 10 seller for marines today, according to warhammerfest interviews. On its own it’s more popular than most primaris kits.
GW just relaunched a whole setting based on firstborn that is cross compatible with 40k.
Grey knights will never get any primaris, according to GW. This is backed up by Crowe not being primaris.
GW is releasing upscaled terminators, which for all intents and purposes are firstborn since their gear is identical (can you imagine the uproar if GW didn’t specify they could be primaris?) They are also releasing basic scouts according to rumors.
The embiggening of the tactical marine is inevitable since it’ll guarantee money for 30 years.
2023/05/23 13:58:32
Subject: Regular Space Marines are still a thing in 10th, right?
Moorecox wrote: As more firstborn units are replaced, like Sternguard, firstborn will eventually be forgotten over time.
GW didn't forget Genestealer Cults, Harlequins or even Squats. Do you think GW is going to forget the biggest breadwinner faction that propelled their business for 25+ years? Forget that the Tactical Squad outsold, I believe, entire factions? Do you think GW will give up an opportunity to resell you yet another version of Marines in the future? The Marines that populate like 95% of the 40k timeline, from the end of the Horus Heresy through to M41?
I don't.
I wouldn't call it 'forgetting', but if they're actually retiring and Legends-ing the boxnaught without replacing it, I don't think anything is sacrosanct. Actually, I'm not even sure if it's getting Legends'd; the article from a few days ago implies you should just count it as a Venerable Dreadnought. That's a pretty iconic piece of the Firstborn line to just toss out.
Call me cynical but I figure they'll simply slowly retire the Firstborn line as kits sell less than their Primaris counterparts. They won't be throwing out kits that still sell, but they won't be adding much in the way of new Firstborn, or be particularly concerned with whether the remaining Firstborn kits constitute a complete army. They'll be happy to sell you models you want to buy, but new releases will fit into their vision of where the faction is going, not fitting into a line that is slowly on the way out.
Or put another way: If GW wants to re-sell you Tacticals, it'll be either a new Intercessor kit with weapon options, or it'll be a HH kit. But I wouldn't expect new Firstborn-exclusive Tactical Marines for 40K.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2023/05/23 13:59:34
They already sold a rescaled tactical squad with their space marine heroes line. Of course it wasn't as flexible as the models where push-fit and you didn't know which one you got, but I build an entire squad of them. They look great next to the Primaris and fit right in.
I wouldn't put it past GW to ride the nostalgia and sell a rescaled kit in maybe 5 years?
2023/05/23 18:01:32
Subject: Regular Space Marines are still a thing in 10th, right?
Brickfix wrote: They already sold a rescaled tactical squad with their space marine heroes line. Of course it wasn't as flexible as the models where push-fit and you didn't know which one you got, but I build an entire squad of them. They look great next to the Primaris and fit right in.
I wouldn't put it past GW to ride the nostalgia and sell a rescaled kit in maybe 5 years?
HH exists. They already started rescaling to fit in and produce it in mass quantities. And ironically also run a rulessystem more aligned to the old days of 40k
https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/0/766717.page A Mostly Renegades and Heretics blog.
GW:"Space marines got too many options to balance, therefore we decided to legends HH units." Players: "why?!? Now we finally got decent plastic kits and you cut them?" Chaos marines players: "Since when are Daemonengines 30k models and why do i have NO droppods now?" GW" MONEY.... erm i meant TOO MANY OPTIONS (to resell your army to you again by disalowing former units)! Do you want specific tyranid fighiting Primaris? Even a new sabotage lieutnant!" Chaos players: Guess i stop playing or go to HH.
2023/05/24 05:18:14
Subject: Regular Space Marines are still a thing in 10th, right?
Brickfix wrote: They already sold a rescaled tactical squad with their space marine heroes line. Of course it wasn't as flexible as the models where push-fit and you didn't know which one you got, but I build an entire squad of them. They look great next to the Primaris and fit right in.
I wouldn't put it past GW to ride the nostalgia and sell a rescaled kit in maybe 5 years?
The regular tactical squad seem slightly larger than those to me. I bought a tactical squad a couple of those things just so I had some kit-bashing parts. Those red HH ones seems a little bit smaller (and thinner). But I haven't fully assembled one so I don't have a direct comparison.
2023/05/24 07:09:24
Subject: Regular Space Marines are still a thing in 10th, right?
Brickfix wrote: They already sold a rescaled tactical squad with their space marine heroes line. Of course it wasn't as flexible as the models where push-fit and you didn't know which one you got, but I build an entire squad of them. They look great next to the Primaris and fit right in.
I wouldn't put it past GW to ride the nostalgia and sell a rescaled kit in maybe 5 years?
The regular tactical squad seem slightly larger than those to me. I bought a tactical squad a couple of those things just so I had some kit-bashing parts. Those red HH ones seems a little bit smaller (and thinner). But I haven't fully assembled one so I don't have a direct comparison.
I bought the space marine heroes back in 2019, they where in blue colored plastic. They are definitely bigger then the tactical squad marines, I believe the same size as the HH Mk. VI. I have no idea about the new ones' size, I would have thought they are the same size as the old ones but apparently not? There are some comparison pictures floating around somewhere online.
This is just me rambling about minor gripes for fun.
