Tyranid vanguard detachment - how to?

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**H.B.M.C.**

How did the Hierodule perform?

**Janthkin**

Pretty much fine. It drew a lot of attention, shot a few things, killed a reasonable amount in hand to hand, and sat on a few objectives. At the point level, a Norn is probably a more effective choice, or a combo of an exocrine & a maleceptor, but the hierodule is painted.

**H.B.M.C.**

Was the Marine tank covered in guns this or this?

**Janthkin**

All marine tanks look the same - too crunchy, not enough tasty bits.

His list calls it a

Repulsor Executioner (220 Points)
• 1x Armoured hull
1x Heavy laser destroyer
1x Heavy onslaught gatling cannon
1x Icarus rocket pod
1x Ironhail heavy stubber
1x Repulsor Executioner defensive array
1x Twin Icarus ironhail heavy stubber
1x Twin heavy bolter

It had one hell of a lot of dice. I took some pleasure in giving it nothing to shoot at a couple of turns (though that was because I was running out of models).

**H.B.M.C.**

Ok, so yes. A Repulsive.

The new Codex has given them a bit of a resurgence in popularity (and they throw a sickening amount of dice).

For me, I won't get one simply because I can't stand the model. Don't care if it's good or not.

**Janthkin**

It also costs precisely the same as 6 Zoanthropes, and only 2/3 the cost of a Barbed Hierodule. Blargh.

**H.B.M.C.**

Janthkin wrote:
It also costs precisely the same as 6 Zoanthropes, and only 2/3 the cost of a Barbed Hierodule. Blargh.

Yeah well Tyranid points are messed up. How Hierodule are worth over 300 is just beyond me, 50 point Zoeys makes little sense either (they're not that tough), and the less said about the Tyrannofex, the better. And the cost of the Harpy went up in the last revision. Up!

And give our Lictors their 5++ back.

**Janthkin**

To be fair, the top Tyranid player at the SoCal Open (190 players, 14 Tyranids) was running Vanguard. He finished 7th (5-1, lost in the last round to Space Marines/Gladius/Blood Angels). (Collectively, 7th, 28, 85, 95, 96, 102, 109, 141, 143, 146, 148, 151, and 181.)

Broodlord (120 points)
• 1x Broodlord claws and talons
• Enhancement: Neuronode

Broodlord (90 points)
• 1x Broodlord claws and talons

Deathleaper (70 points)
• 1x Lictor claws and talons

Winged Hive Tyrant (225 points)
• Warlord
• 1x Monstrous bonesword and lash whip
1x Tyrant talons
• Enhancement: Chameleonic

Winged Hive Tyrant (210 points)
• 1x Monstrous bonesword and lash whip
1x Tyrant talons

Exocrine (135 points)
• 1x Bio-plasmic cannon
1x Powerful limbs

Genestealers (170 points)
• 10x Genestealer
• 10x Genestealers claws and talons

Genestealers (170 points)
• 10x Genestealer
• 10x Genestealers claws and talons

Lictor (60 points)
• 1x Lictor claws and talons

Lictor (60 points)
• 1x Lictor claws and talons

Maleceptor (170 points)
• 1x Massive scything talons
1x Psychic overload

Neurolictor (65 points)
• 1x Piercing claws and talons

Ripper Swarms (20 points)
• 1x Chitinous claws and teeth

Ripper Swarms (20 points)
• 1x Chitinous claws and teeth

Von Ryan’s Leapers (150 points)
• 6x Von Ryan’s Leaper
• 6x Leaper’s talons

Von Ryan’s Leapers (150 points)
• 6x Von Ryan’s Leaper
• 6x Leaper’s talons

Zoanthropes (110 points)
• 1x Neurothrope
• 1x Chitinous claws and teeth
1x Warp Blast
• 2x Zoanthrope
• 2x Chitinous claws and teeth
2x Warp Blast

**H.B.M.C.**

I like Leapers. They're fun.

And now that I have another 6, I'm looking forward to throwing 2 full units at someone (along with a Deathleaper and Neurolictor).

I think the Vanguard detachment has promise, that assault/charge is a good enough rule to build an army around, and I'm willing to give it a go. It may very well turn out that the defining feature of the non-Invasion Fleet detachments is that they're just not the Invasion Fleet detachment, but it's probably too early to write any of them off (other than Crusher, because obviously that's terrible and never should have made it to print).

**Tyran**

Something I has seen people experimenting with is the melee warriors led by the winged prime.

Winged prime gives the Vanguard keyword and melee warriors do hit harder than genestealers.

**JNAProductions**

Tyran wrote:
Something I has seen people experimenting with is the melee warriors led by the winged prime.

Winged prime gives the Vanguard keyword and melee warriors do hit harder than genestealers.

I was gonna say "Do they really?" because didn't Genestealers used to have full wound rerolls against Objective Holders? But now that's been changed to RR1s to-hit and -wound.

**Janthkin**

It's an idea, though it's not an obvious win on paper. Points are pretty much a wash between the Broodlord + 10 'stealers vs. the Prime + 6 Warriors.

Warriors have no Scout, no invulnerable save, higher points-per-wound, slightly fewer attacks which will not hit as often, and no Dev Wounds; they are going to wound more often and have a higher base save. But I think the biggest problem is the difference between a 6" and a 8" move - the Warriors are maybe a good reaction force, but aren't going to be making any first turn offensive charges.

**pinecone77**

H.B.M.C. wrote:
Oh the two armies that want to get up close quicker agreed that smaller boards were better.

Well I 'spose that settles it.

Why are yo

you posting on a Nid thread? Are you bored?

Automatically Appended Next Post:

H.B.M.C. wrote:
Oh the two armies that want to get up close quicker agreed that smaller boards were better.

Well I 'spose that settles it.

Why are yo

you posting on a Nid thread? Are you bored?

**Tyran**

Janthkin wrote:
It's an idea, though it's not an obvious win on paper. Points are pretty much a wash between the Broodlord + 10 'stealers vs. the Prime + 6 Warriors.

Warriors have no Scout, no invulnerable save, higher points-per-wound, slightly fewer attacks which will not hit as often, and no Dev Wounds; they are going to wound more often and have a higher base save. But I think the biggest problem is the difference between a 6" and a 8" move - the Warriors are maybe a good reaction force, but aren't going to be making any first turn offensive charges.

Regarding hitting, Warriors do have Sustained so math-wise is mostly the same as the Genestealer's 2+. And the higher strength + full re-rolls means they hit higher T targets much harder. Wounding on 5+ and re-rolling is better (66.66%) than Dev wounds on 6+.

The lack of scout and slower movement does mean they aren't alpha strike units, but if they get the charge they will usually outperform Genestealers specially against bigger targets.

**H.B.M.C.**

But do they need to have an attached (and frankly really lacklustre) Tyranid Prime to make the unit function?

pinecone77 wrote:
Why are yo you posting on a Nid thread? Are you bored?

Why are you replying to a post from 2 months ago? Are you lost?

**ERJAK**

H.B.M.C. wrote:
But do they need to have an attached (and frankly really lacklustre) Tyranid Prime to make the unit function?

pinecone77 wrote:
Why are yo you posting on a Nid thread? Are you bored?
Why are you replying to a post from 2 months ago? Are you lost?

Genestealers need to have an attached (and also pretty lacklustre) broodlord to work. Kind of a wash, honestly. Especially because he doesn't actually get anything out of his own leadership.