Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

yeah

Ok, didn't take much pictures - just an overall view and than decided to not post it cause there were just too many proxies and it'd be confusing. This orks are horrors, this orks are cultists, those nobz are spawns, this kopta is a bike sorc and that bike sorc...oh, at least he is indeed bike sorc, phew!

Will ask the owner to make close ups on oblits if you want. They're sweet-sweet models.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Here you go!

Hmm, surprised that you say ap3 is common. Most armies seem to spam ap 5-6 and ap 1-2. Maybe guard with their tanks, but the vast majority of weapons rarely seem to be ap 3-4. It's one of the reasons 2+ saves aren't as good as they seem. Most of the better units sport ap 2 or better weapons outside of scat bikes.

Regardless, the advantage of the sky shield with mot is they have a 3/3++ save, so ap weapons are very bad against them. Throw in 1-2 ablative wound guys and they are a tough unit to remove outside of melee, and being on the back edge with an advancing force in front of them makes them tough to get to.

The real problem is the best weapon for them is the 4 pg load out. Chaos doesn't have good long range weapons overall. If the auto cannons were just one more shot they'd be one of the best units in the dex. If oblits could fire the same weapon turn after turn, and had 1 more wound, I'd take them. Actually an additional wound on the mutilators would make me look at them too....they'd be much harder for a tactical squad to remove at that point.

The chaos dex is just full of slightly missed chances though.

I don't find swapping weapons to be very problematic with oblits, actually. They have good choices for the job. The only real problem was when they got misplaced in corner but that doesn't happen very often. In fact 2 misplaced oblits out of 4 - i consider to be FAR less likely than it usually happens. I usually leave 2-3 on board - depending on the opponent, terrain, traits, etc.

As for ap3, there are superheavies with ap3 hellstorm flamers, heldrakes, guard arti - now with orders, eldar psy apoc blast, reapers...don't know, most games here have some sort of decent ap3 ranged weapon. Not telling that armies are entirely composed of it but it's not rare nevertheless.

And once again, havoks are fine. I also like 4 flamers in a rhino. They roll around and go SoB stuff to death. Oblits just do more for me. And models are cool.

So... play'ed a game last night with this list:


From memory, my opponent had:

So how did my lonely 2 Mutilators do?

1st one DS in turn 2 near his Melta IK. Did nothing and in my opponent's turn 2 shooting... ignored it (moved that IK towards my typhon). In my turn 3, I ended up assaulting that IK. We BOTH whiffed in two combat turns.

Mutie was a good speed bump for a turn. Worked out well as it essentially allowed me to move the typhon up to target his Gravs-Cent. (killed 3 cents in ensuing turn. )

The other Mutie dropped near the relic by turn 4 and my opponent just had to target from the lone Cent and conclave.

Conclusion... there's a place for the Mutilators against slow moving armies.

Thanks for the report. Keep em coming.

 whembly wrote:
So... play'ed a game last night with this list:

Spoiler:

Purge Detachment:
-Maelific Sorc (bare bones)
-1x Nurgle Mutilators
-1x Nurgle Multilators
-2x Sicarian (bare bones)
-2x Mualerfiends
LOW: Typhon with Armour Ceremite

CSM CAD:
-Sorc (lvl2 w/ spell familiar)
-1x Cultist
-1x Cultist
-1x Baledrake
-2x Hellblade (rending upgrade)
-1x Plague Hulk
-1x Maulerfiend

From memory, my opponent had:

Spoiler:

-3 man conclave
-Sevrin Loth
-2or3 scout squads
-tactical squad /w meltas in drop pod
-Gravs-Centurons
-Melta Imperial Knight
-Flamestorm template Imperial Knight

So how did my lonely 2 Mutilators do?

1st one DS in turn 2 near his Melta IK. Did nothing and in my opponent's turn 2 shooting... ignored it (moved that IK towards my typhon). In my turn 3, I ended up assaulting that IK. We BOTH whiffed in two combat turns.

Mutie was a good speed bump for a turn. Worked out well as it essentially allowed me to move the typhon up to target his Gravs-Cent. (killed 3 cents in ensuing turn. )

The other Mutie dropped near the relic by turn 4 and my opponent just had to target from the lone Cent and conclave.

Conclusion... there's a place for the Mutilators against slow moving armies.

Cool! So, they payed off eventually. Were you inspired to try out muties for purge detachment by this thread? Or were they just the cheapest fillers?
Anywayz, i don't think they're as useful for eternal war as for maelstorm. Still performed fine, i see.

To be fair, the likelihood of an IK failing to kill a lone Mutilator in two rounds of combat is fairly small...

 Ashiraya wrote:
To be fair, the likelihood of an IK failing to kill a lone Mutilator in two rounds of combat is fairly small...

It won't have to every game. Thank goodness.

In another thread we had been discussing Blade storm vs CSM, and more specifically Mutilators.

Janocran, what are your thoughts about Mutilators in games against Guardians and Dire Avengers?

Bharring wrote:
In another thread we had been discussing Blade storm vs CSM, and more specifically Mutilators.

Janocran, what are your thoughts about Mutilators in games against Guardians and Dire Avengers?

To be honest, I have seen very few players using either. In fact it has been a WHILE since anyone but me has done it. Wave Spam is no longer a "thing" really and that was the primary motivator for taking them at all.

Having said all that: i think Mutilators would not like to face Guardians or Dire Avengers because of Blade Storm. It's way under rated of course like most things people dont normally take. But you can see what it does in other units, and its pretty clearly a good answer against Mutilators.

10 Guardians do 2.22 Rending wounds and 2.2 normal ones if all ten get to fire. So that's 1.85 wounds on the average? Not enough but daaaaaaarn close. Close enough that on any given roll, the odds could teeter in the Guardians favor. So yeah. Bladestorming Guardians have a shot at killing a Mutilator. IF ten of them get to shoot AND they get a little lucky.

Who underrates bladestorm?

Martel732 wrote:
Who underrates bladestorm?

Well obviously not you, right?

 Dtox wrote:
Building my chaos army and found some mutilators for a good deal, are they a good unit to add to my roster?

I'd rather have the Obliterators, to be honest. They have rarely failed me.

If you want to assault something, use a Flying Daemon Prince or 2.

 kronk wrote:

 Dtox wrote:
Building my chaos army and found some mutilators for a good deal, are they a good unit to add to my roster?

I'd rather have the Obliterators, to be honest. They have rarely failed me.

If you want to assault something, use a Flying Daemon Prince or 2.

well Obliterators first, certainly. But Mutilators are elites so once youre out of slots: Mutilators.

 Jancoran wrote:

Martel732 wrote:
Who underrates bladestorm?

Well obviously not you, right?

Ummm... nope. It's better than ATSKNF and grenades on tacs. Hell, bladestorm even works against the annointed GMCs, because rending was the one thing GW forgot to make GMCs completely immune to.

 Jancoran wrote:

Bharring wrote:
In another thread we had been discussing Blade storm vs CSM, and more specifically Mutilators.

Janocran, what are your thoughts about Mutilators in games against Guardians and Dire Avengers?

To be honest, I have seen very few players using either. In fact it has been a WHILE since anyone but me has done it. Wave Spam is no longer a "thing" really and that was the primary motivator for taking them at all.

Having said all that: i think Mutilators would not like to face Guardians or Dire Avengers because of Blade Storm. It's way under rated of course like most things people dont normally take. But you can see what it does in other units, and its pretty clearly a good answer against Mutilators.

10 Guardians do 2.22 Rending wounds and 2.2 normal ones if all ten get to fire. So that's 1.85 wounds on the average? Not enough but daaaaaaarn close. Close enough that on any given roll, the odds could teeter in the Guardians favor. So yeah. Bladestorming Guardians have a shot at killing a Mutilator.

I think I'm one of the few Eldar players who uses Guardians on a regular basis, and they do fairly well against my friend's Oblits and Mutilators. Battle Focus makes it so I can easily get into double tap range before backing off.

Martel732 wrote:

 Jancoran wrote:

Martel732 wrote:
Who underrates bladestorm?

Well obviously not you, right?

Ummm... nope. It's better than ATSKNF and grenades on tacs.

Sure. But then you think everything is better than Tactical Marines. So...

Congratz on not being one who underrates Guardians! perhaps they could be your next army? I ran a Guardian based army as a special request from a blog follower a long time ago. It was pretty fun.

http://40kunorthodoxy.blogspot.com/2011/12/army-of-common-man-guardian-army-battle.html

Oh no. GW gets no more currency from me. Maybe if they put in a unit for BA that's not useless. I'm not holding my breath.

I'm actually surprised. For threat saturation, my units have one turn to stop them or they lose the position (Reapers, for example, can't really get away from deep struck mutilators). And my DA squads cost twice a muti.

That said, I have little experience against them. Nurgle oblits have survived a lot, though.

Martel732 wrote:
Oh no. GW gets no more currency from me. Maybe if they put in a unit for BA that's not useless. I'm not holding my breath.

So... who sai anything about GW. We have EBAY!!!

 Jancoran wrote:

Martel732 wrote:
Oh no. GW gets no more currency from me. Maybe if they put in a unit for BA that's not useless. I'm not holding my breath.

So... who sai anything about GW. We have EBAY!!!

I guess that's true. The after market.

 War Kitten wrote:

I think I'm one of the few Eldar players who uses Guardians on a regular basis, and they do fairly well against my friend's Oblits and Mutilators. Battle Focus makes it so I can easily get into double tap range before backing off.

Don't tell anyone here or they will tell you your meta sucks and you're a bad player. Lol.

But seriously, I also have them in my army. I'm only using one unit and have been actually testing the army without them the last three games. However i do think the Guardians are extremely effective as close line defense much the same way the Tau Breachers are. Likewise they can be used in a somewhat similar role as Fish of Fury guys. So i can definitely see the usefulness. Battle Focus adds to their shininess.

I enjoyed the all Guardian army quite a bit.

I've typically used Guardians for mid/backfield. Potshot with Brightlance, and if something comes close, take a bite to help whatever else can engage it, but they haven't done well on the front line pushing. Boltguns and short range (d6 BF helps)...

Bharring wrote:
I've typically used Guardians for mid/backfield. Potshot with Brightlance, and if something comes close, take a bite to help whatever else can engage it, but they haven't done well on the front line pushing. Boltguns and short range (d6 BF helps)...

If you plan tyo bring them up, then you might want to consider Asurman as a leader. His multiple Waerlord traits really can be a HUGE deal when you combine them in a Guardian army. The Feast of Blades or whatever its called is REALLY nice in a Guardian heavy "fish of Fury" type approach. it does require some heavy duty weapons be plugging any artillery full of holes ahead of time of course but even then you can scatter with FLEET and Battle focus pretty darn well.

The bottom line to me is that nothing that is relying on toughness or an armor save (or both) to protect a rather limited amount of wounds wants to see bladestorm. Bladestorm is not super great against vanilla marines, but once you starting putting gear on them, the "6"s get very costly. It's even worse with MC/GMC. It seems to me that Nurgle mutilators fall into this category. The mutilators will soak way more fire from Fire Warriors or marines compared to Bladestorm units.

Yeah, my most common list has Asurmen bouncing between 2 10man DA squads. Backed up by one box of several other Aspects, its a hell of a fun time, for both me and my opponents usually. But Asurmen, even with Fates Messenger, doesn't seem to tank well.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Things that rely on t7 or lower don't have their toughness negated by Bladestorm (although armor is proportionally less effective as T goes up, even though overall survivability goes up) any more than Boltguns.

Bharring wrote:
Yeah, my most common list has Asurmen bouncing between 2 10man DA squads. Backed up by one box of several other Aspects, its a hell of a fun time, for both me and my opponents usually. But Asurmen, even with Fates Messenger, doesn't seem to tank well.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Things that rely on t7 or lower don't have their toughness negated by Bladestorm (although armor is proportionally less effective as T goes up, even though overall survivability goes up) any more than Boltguns.

So you discovered Asurman. good. He's... Really quite good. bad luck happens to all of us but more or less he's one of the biggest surprises when you actually use him in an Eldar list. I wrote a blog on his usefulness in 6E: http://40kunorthodoxy.blogspot.com/2013/07/6th-edition-eldar-hq-asurman.html

Even then I was liking him. A lot.

Bharring wrote:
Yeah, my most common list has Asurmen bouncing between 2 10man DA squads. Backed up by one box of several other Aspects, its a hell of a fun time, for both me and my opponents usually. But Asurmen, even with Fates Messenger, doesn't seem to tank well.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Things that rely on t7 or lower don't have their toughness negated by Bladestorm (although armor is proportionally less effective as T goes up, even though overall survivability goes up) any more than Boltguns.

But the armor gets ignored as well. And T8 is a VERY important data point. Ironic that Eldar are the only ones that can handle their own GMC. I've seen as many WK as all other MCs/GMCs combined.

He is a bucket of fun.

My favorite stories with him are:
-The time he charged a 5-man Sternie squad without combis, with Fates Messenger, and died (from full!) on overwatch
-He gets charged with a 10man DA squad. Does 0 wounds (saved or otherwise for two rounds). Then, on the second round of CC, PL/shield Exarch one rounds a Wraith on the second round, just to show him up.

In most games he does good work, but about what I paid for him. I have yet to have Soulcut do anything really nice, but he really mulches Marines.

My Eldar do well, I don't need them to do any better (in fact, the new dex has made my casual lists a bit too good for their purpose).