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 Lennac wrote:
Just started collecting... picked Chaos Space Marines (lore and aesthetics).

Then I look at the results of this poll.

If you want results on the table there is time yet to paint them red, black and gold and run Demonkin.

Seriously though. Unless you're in a crazy competitive meta, you should be alright. Mines sorta competitive and I can run them just fine. I definitely understand the CSM players frustration, but the codex is more playable than bugs and Orks and arguably BA. Yea, there will be a learning curve, but it won't be as bad as the very loud dakka player base would have you believe

 happygolucky wrote:

 VictorVonTzeentch wrote:

 happygolucky wrote:

 Zaku212 wrote:

 Ashiraya wrote:

Lennac wrote:
Just started collecting... picked Chaos Space Marines (lore and aesthetics).

Then I look at the results of this poll.

Welcome to the club. :(

TFW you've collected chaos for the last 18 or so years so you got to watch the backslide of an army you've worked on for years...

It's not all Doom and Gloom though.. You can use IA: 13 supplied by FW which gives CSM a major facelift (compared with its current codex), but you need to make sure your area is comfortable with FW first

I wouldnt call it a major face lift, its a rather small one. It just gives you some good stuff that ultimately gets dragged down by the garbage.

Must be a difference in areas, as I've found CSM to really push up the ladder with FW in my area .

I've had a read of this since and while it's all good stuff, It's kinda an attempt in rolling a turd in glitter. I'd honestly prefer a functional main codex where I'm not feeling like I'm just writing a terrible and overpriced version of a vanilla marines list.

Like it's kinda upsetting that I've spent a great deal of time on them only to feel kind of stupid for ever thinking they'd be able to compete without being propped up with help from outside the codex. Like I remember it being great to finally get the plastic Zerkers when they were first out. I moved from collecting and painting to wanting to play with the 3rd ed 2nd codex(3.5 Ed I guess). It was a lot of fun to play with builds and everything seemed a bit more viable(may have been me being naive at the time though). But most importantly for me, the seemingly "good" choices were fun and let me play as I wanted to and still do ok.

I never consciously shelved the army, but once the following codex dropped the whole thing kinda lost any and all soul for me and I kinda drifted off.

Sorry for rambling but this thread has kinda touched a nerve I didn't know was there

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:Competitive CSM with FW can barely compete with casual Top 4 lists.

Then its a good thing I don't have a competitive meta I seem to do fine with Sicaran (Gotta love popping jetbikes and skimmers with no jink), (a few Dreadclaws sometimes) and a few Contemptors and a Decimator

Zaku212 wrote: *Snip*

That's ok, I think everyone wants a favorable codex where they get to play their codex and army, I still want my Night Lords to play like.. well Night Lords. I never played 3.5 (got started at the end of 4th ed.) but at the end of the day we all can wish for something to happen or make something happen and since GW isn't listening (Although they have just started I will give them credit for that) I would advise making use of what you can get. I have with FW and I'm never looking back. Although I'm not getting NL rules soon I can get close to their playstyle with Dreadclaw Alpha-Strike. I would advise looking into IA: 13 as you could get some of that flavour back for your WE, just look at Spartan tank, I reckon that would be a worthwhile investment to get your 'Zerks or Terminators into combat.

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
Competitive CSM with FW can barely compete with casual Top 4 lists.

They can't. My Eldar have a field day against competitive CSM. I even managed to win against them using Grey Knights which I find seriously underpowered at the moment.

So...

In light of TH not sucking, should we delete this thread and start anew?

 JimOnMars wrote:
So...

In light of TH not sucking, should we delete this thread and start anew?

Oh definitely. Here's to the competition just between Dark Eldar and Blood Angels!

DE are worse with the FAQs. We don't need to discuss it.

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:

 JimOnMars wrote:
So...

In light of TH not sucking, should we delete this thread and start anew?

Oh definitely. Here's to the competition just between Dark Eldar and Blood Angels!

We should wait for TH part II to come out, since it's going to give BA more Formations, relics & Decurions plus new wargear and updated Devs and Assault Marines.

Then it'll be a competition between BA and CSMs for second worse (but not really because Grav Cannons + the Formations will almost for sure trump anything CSMs have gotten).

 JimOnMars wrote:
So...

In light of TH not sucking, should we delete this thread and start anew?

Yeep.

 Matt.Kingsley wrote:

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:

 JimOnMars wrote:
So...

In light of TH not sucking, should we delete this thread and start anew?

Oh definitely. Here's to the competition just between Dark Eldar and Blood Angels!

We should wait for TH part II to come out, since it's going to give BA more Formations, relics & Decurions plus new wargear and updated Devs and Assault Marines.

Then it'll be a competition between BA and CSMs for second worse (but not really because Grav Cannons + the Formations will almost for sure trump anything CSMs have gotten).

Blood Angels don't have Grav Cannons.

So with the new TH being released, Orks are #1 for worst army?

SemperMortis wrote:
So with the new TH being released, Orks are #1 for worst army?

It is Dark Eldar or Blood Angels right now for sure.

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:

SemperMortis wrote:
So with the new TH being released, Orks are #1 for worst army?

It is Dark Eldar or Blood Angels right now for sure.

Blood Angels 6% [ 96 ]
Dark Eldar 8% [ 138 ]
Orks 18% [ 306 ]

The numbers would beg to differ from that opinion.

Blood Angels aren't as good as SMs. That is a fact; but they still benefit from a lot of USRs and other things that make them a lot better then Orks. DE, well they have a tough learning curve but not nearly as bad as Orks. It would be nice if my army could spam S8 AP2 lances all over the place Poison is not to be laughed at either.

ORKS WIN !!!! at being the worst.....

Seriously, I would pay good money for the Ork Book with formations that grant:

Grot squads come back on a 4+, with outflank

Storm Boyz can assault on the turn they DS

Lootaz Shoot Twice per turn

I wish Krieg had good formations too.

At least the Scions can bring back a single squad every turns if its wiped out.

Somehow I wasn't expecting DE to get fewer votes than CSM.

 AnomanderRake wrote:
Somehow I wasn't expecting DE to get fewer votes than CSM.

I imagine there are fewer DE players

DE is now the weakest faction by far. Poor poor DE. Even HC can't match the formations CSM just got. IG are second worst now.

 Gamgee wrote:
DE is now the weakest faction by far. Poor poor DE. Even HC can't match the formations CSM just got. IG are second worst now.

something something
Dark Eldar 8% [ 138 ] + Astra Militarum 7% [ 111 ] = Less votes then Orks got.

Orks 18% [ 306 ]

Okay we get it, Martel 2.0

 Bobthehero wrote:
Okay we get it, Martel 2.0

I apologize bob, I have this tendency to use facts and statistics whenever possible. I apologize for pointing out someone making a statement that flew in the face of this poll.

 Gamgee wrote:
DE is now the weakest faction by far. Poor poor DE. Even HC can't match the formations CSM just got. IG are second worst now.

Except venom span evaporates orks like water, along with splinter rack raiders. When either side gets a charge off, Dark Eldar always goes first. Always. Have you ever tried to fight close combat at initiative 2? Believe me, it isn't fun. Yes, lack of assault grenades hurts you if the orks hunker down in a bush, but that leaves the rest of the table for you. And those orks you can just shoot anyway.

Don't even get me started on 48" objective secured movement.

Switch armies next time you play orks and see if you like basically the same army, but much, much slower, with worse weapons, worse leadership and worse ballistic skill. Yes, we get T4...but poison allows your base troops to wound on 4+ anyway, so it doesn't help us much.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
In addition, Coven > Ghaz.

SemperMortis wrote:

 Bobthehero wrote:
Okay we get it, Martel 2.0

I apologize bob, I have this tendency to use facts and statistics whenever possible. I apologize for pointing out someone making a statement that flew in the face of this poll.

You've been hamering the point more like.

 Bobthehero wrote:

SemperMortis wrote:

 Bobthehero wrote:
Okay we get it, Martel 2.0

I apologize bob, I have this tendency to use facts and statistics whenever possible. I apologize for pointing out someone making a statement that flew in the face of this poll.

You've been hamering the point more like.

So because I defend my point with statistics im "Hamering the point home". I guess I should just say something one time and ignore everything else forever because otherwise I will be "hamering the point home"

I am sorry you feel the need to attack me for pointing out the massive deficiencies in the army I chose to play but it doesn't really add much to this discussion, can we advance past this and continue?

 JimOnMars wrote:

 Gamgee wrote:
DE is now the weakest faction by far. Poor poor DE. Even HC can't match the formations CSM just got. IG are second worst now.

Except venom span evaporates orks like water, along with splinter rack raiders. When either side gets a charge off, Dark Eldar always goes first. Always. Have you ever tried to fight close combat at initiative 2? Believe me, it isn't fun. Yes, lack of assault grenades hurts you if the orks hunker down in a bush, but that leaves the rest of the table for you. And those orks you can just shoot anyway.

Don't even get me started on 48" objective secured movement.

Switch armies next time you play orks and see if you like basically the same army, but much, much slower, with worse weapons, worse leadership and worse ballistic skill. Yes, we get T4...but poison allows your base troops to wound on 4+ anyway, so it doesn't help us much.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
In addition, Coven > Ghaz.

Orks can get cheap stompa upgrade. Their big thing from FW.

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:

 Matt.Kingsley wrote:

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:

 JimOnMars wrote:
So...

In light of TH not sucking, should we delete this thread and start anew?

Oh definitely. Here's to the competition just between Dark Eldar and Blood Angels!

We should wait for TH part II to come out, since it's going to give BA more Formations, relics & Decurions plus new wargear and updated Devs and Assault Marines.

Then it'll be a competition between BA and CSMs for second worse (but not really because Grav Cannons + the Formations will almost for sure trump anything CSMs have gotten).

Blood Angels don't have Grav Cannons.

They almost for sure will once TH II comes out, since as I said it updates the wargear list and Devastor Squad entry.
Which is what my post was about... TH II BA.

 Gamgee wrote:

 JimOnMars wrote:

 Gamgee wrote:
DE is now the weakest faction by far. Poor poor DE. Even HC can't match the formations CSM just got. IG are second worst now.

Except venom span evaporates orks like water, along with splinter rack raiders. When either side gets a charge off, Dark Eldar always goes first. Always. Have you ever tried to fight close combat at initiative 2? Believe me, it isn't fun. Yes, lack of assault grenades hurts you if the orks hunker down in a bush, but that leaves the rest of the table for you. And those orks you can just shoot anyway.

Don't even get me started on 48" objective secured movement.

Switch armies next time you play orks and see if you like basically the same army, but much, much slower, with worse weapons, worse leadership and worse ballistic skill. Yes, we get T4...but poison allows your base troops to wound on 4+ anyway, so it doesn't help us much.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
In addition, Coven > Ghaz.

Orks can get cheap stompa upgrade. Their big thing from FW.

It's pretty sad when your armies "big thing" is a misprint. Forgeworld has confirmed that the value is not correct. Anyone who would try to take this in a game (at the incorrect point value) is a serious dick, and ITC only allowed it as a joke.

You wanted something I gave it to you. Don't get pissed off at me for something the ITC allows and is happy orks have. They didn't do it as a joke and I also voted on that poll and knew orks needed the boost.

 Matt.Kingsley wrote:

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:

 Matt.Kingsley wrote:

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:

 JimOnMars wrote:
So...

In light of TH not sucking, should we delete this thread and start anew?

Oh definitely. Here's to the competition just between Dark Eldar and Blood Angels!

We should wait for TH part II to come out, since it's going to give BA more Formations, relics & Decurions plus new wargear and updated Devs and Assault Marines.

Then it'll be a competition between BA and CSMs for second worse (but not really because Grav Cannons + the Formations will almost for sure trump anything CSMs have gotten).

Blood Angels don't have Grav Cannons.

They almost for sure will once TH II comes out, since as I said it updates the wargear list and Devastor Squad entry.
Which is what my post was about... TH II BA.

And they'll still be worse off than the vanilla variant of they do receive it. Just having the item doesn't mean they have an effective way to use it.

I never said they'd be better than Vanilla Marines, so I'm not sure why you're bringing that up. I'm comparing them to CSMs, an army without them that is made of some of the best targets: expensive MEQ/TEQ.