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SemperMortis wrote:
The only reason I rate Orks as worse then Tyranids is that we have nothing nearly as good as a Flyrant. And Orks and nids both rely on model spam and neither is a very useful tactic in our current edition.

One model won't make the army, especially since Flyrants are more or less 2 or 3 wound MCs (they tend to fall from the sky pretty often.

I'm not saying Orks are better than bugs, because IMO Bugs are better at shooting but in my experience if bugs make it to assault, unless it's against fish people or guardsmen they don't hit hard enough or stay around long enough. Hitting everything on 4 and wounding most on 4 or higher isn't really great for longevity or CC success. You know gak is upside-down when bugs are run as shooting armies.

Orks on the other hand do work in CC. They have the bodies/means to get there and then drown you in wounds.

 Baldeagle91 wrote:

 Vash108 wrote:
So if we do see an updated CSM book this year, do you think it will just be more of a bridge between the 6th and 8th or will they just make it a straight up 7th update?

I would hate to think it is just a 7th update this late in the game.

Wouldn't be the first time it's happened.

Don't be so pessimistic! Surely GW see's the plight of the Chaos Space Marine players and will give them a wonderful 8th edition codex!

Dantes_Baals wrote:

SemperMortis wrote:
The only reason I rate Orks as worse then Tyranids is that we have nothing nearly as good as a Flyrant. And Orks and nids both rely on model spam and neither is a very useful tactic in our current edition.

One model won't make the army, especially since Flyrants are more or less 2 or 3 wound MCs (they tend to fall from the sky pretty often.

I'm not saying Orks are better than bugs, because IMO Bugs are better at shooting but in my experience if bugs make it to assault, unless it's against fish people or guardsmen they don't hit hard enough or stay around long enough. Hitting everything on 4 and wounding most on 4 or higher isn't really great for longevity or CC success. You know gak is upside-down when bugs are run as shooting armies.

Orks on the other hand do work in CC. They have the bodies/means to get there and then drown you in wounds.

Yeah it's the weird thing that Nids just can't really hack it in combat anymore. And even then they're more of a close-medium range shooty army. It's the main reason I find the Mawloc incredibly lack lustre, it just can't really hack it in combat. Many of their decent CC choices (for their cost) such as warriors and shrikes simply get shot to pieces and insta death'd incredibly easily.

Just lost to Orks actually. Brought a Sternhammer and got streamrolled by a tide of Nobs.

 Baldeagle91 wrote:

Dantes_Baals wrote:

SemperMortis wrote:
The only reason I rate Orks as worse then Tyranids is that we have nothing nearly as good as a Flyrant. And Orks and nids both rely on model spam and neither is a very useful tactic in our current edition.

One model won't make the army, especially since Flyrants are more or less 2 or 3 wound MCs (they tend to fall from the sky pretty often.

I'm not saying Orks are better than bugs, because IMO Bugs are better at shooting but in my experience if bugs make it to assault, unless it's against fish people or guardsmen they don't hit hard enough or stay around long enough. Hitting everything on 4 and wounding most on 4 or higher isn't really great for longevity or CC success. You know gak is upside-down when bugs are run as shooting armies.

Orks on the other hand do work in CC. They have the bodies/means to get there and then drown you in wounds.

Yeah it's the weird thing that Nids just can't really hack it in combat anymore. And even then they're more of a close-medium range shooty army. It's the main reason I find the Mawloc incredibly lack lustre, it just can't really hack it in combat. Many of their decent CC choices (for their cost) such as warriors and shrikes simply get shot to pieces and insta death'd incredibly easily.

When I played Nids a few weeks back they used some sort of formation to infiltrate some Genestealer models up very close and lock me down in Assault before I could do anything. I got off no shooting at all by the time the Flyant swooped in and massacred the rest.

Gree wrote:
Just lost to Orks actually. Brought a Sternhammer and got streamrolled by a tide of Nobs.

 Baldeagle91 wrote:

Dantes_Baals wrote:

SemperMortis wrote:
The only reason I rate Orks as worse then Tyranids is that we have nothing nearly as good as a Flyrant. And Orks and nids both rely on model spam and neither is a very useful tactic in our current edition.

One model won't make the army, especially since Flyrants are more or less 2 or 3 wound MCs (they tend to fall from the sky pretty often.

I'm not saying Orks are better than bugs, because IMO Bugs are better at shooting but in my experience if bugs make it to assault, unless it's against fish people or guardsmen they don't hit hard enough or stay around long enough. Hitting everything on 4 and wounding most on 4 or higher isn't really great for longevity or CC success. You know gak is upside-down when bugs are run as shooting armies.

Orks on the other hand do work in CC. They have the bodies/means to get there and then drown you in wounds.

Yeah it's the weird thing that Nids just can't really hack it in combat anymore. And even then they're more of a close-medium range shooty army. It's the main reason I find the Mawloc incredibly lack lustre, it just can't really hack it in combat. Many of their decent CC choices (for their cost) such as warriors and shrikes simply get shot to pieces and insta death'd incredibly easily.

When I played Nids a few weeks back they used some sort of formation to infiltrate some Genestealer models up very close and lock me down in Assault before I could do anything. I got off no shooting at all by the time the Flyant swooped in and massacred the rest.

How would that work? Seeing by that logic the flyrant wouldn't be able to shoot at anything either

 Baldeagle91 wrote:

Gree wrote:
Just lost to Orks actually. Brought a Sternhammer and got streamrolled by a tide of Nobs.

 Baldeagle91 wrote:

Dantes_Baals wrote:

SemperMortis wrote:
The only reason I rate Orks as worse then Tyranids is that we have nothing nearly as good as a Flyrant. And Orks and nids both rely on model spam and neither is a very useful tactic in our current edition.

One model won't make the army, especially since Flyrants are more or less 2 or 3 wound MCs (they tend to fall from the sky pretty often.

I'm not saying Orks are better than bugs, because IMO Bugs are better at shooting but in my experience if bugs make it to assault, unless it's against fish people or guardsmen they don't hit hard enough or stay around long enough. Hitting everything on 4 and wounding most on 4 or higher isn't really great for longevity or CC success. You know gak is upside-down when bugs are run as shooting armies.

Orks on the other hand do work in CC. They have the bodies/means to get there and then drown you in wounds.

Yeah it's the weird thing that Nids just can't really hack it in combat anymore. And even then they're more of a close-medium range shooty army. It's the main reason I find the Mawloc incredibly lack lustre, it just can't really hack it in combat. Many of their decent CC choices (for their cost) such as warriors and shrikes simply get shot to pieces and insta death'd incredibly easily.

When I played Nids a few weeks back they used some sort of formation to infiltrate some Genestealer models up very close and lock me down in Assault before I could do anything. I got off no shooting at all by the time the Flyant swooped in and massacred the rest.

How would that work? Seeing by that logic the flyrant wouldn't be able to shoot at anything either

The Flyrant did't shoot at anything. He just charged into close combat the turn he was able to and I couldn't do anything because the Genestealers where locked in combat with my main shooty units. The Flyrant proceeded to slaughter my Centurions.

Well unless there is a formation I'm missing, you can't assault the turn you infiltrate. So you should have had at least a turn to dakka down some of the stealers.

Dantes_Baals wrote:
Well unless there is a formation I'm missing, you can't assault the turn you infiltrate. So you should have had at least a turn to dakka down some of the stealers.

He was using the Ghosar Broodkin Formation to Turn One assault with the Genestealers.

Gree wrote:

Dantes_Baals wrote:
Well unless there is a formation I'm missing, you can't assault the turn you infiltrate. So you should have had at least a turn to dakka down some of the stealers.

He was using the Ghosar Broodkin Formation to Turn One assault with the Genestealers.

Sure wish Orks could do that, formation or no.

When Genestealer Cult gets an actual codex, we can start using those rules with our Ork miniatures. I'd wager it would improve their effectiveness.

My Gensteal..er... Storm Kommandos infiltrate 1" away from that Tau Ethereal.

Just started collecting... picked Chaos Space Marines (lore and aesthetics).

Then I look at the results of this poll.

Lennac wrote:
Just started collecting... picked Chaos Space Marines (lore and aesthetics).

Then I look at the results of this poll.

Welcome to the club. :(

 Ashiraya wrote:

Lennac wrote:
Just started collecting... picked Chaos Space Marines (lore and aesthetics).

Then I look at the results of this poll.

Welcome to the club. :(

Any word on an update to the Codex or any changes for the army in the near future? Honestly, it's not a huge deal for me because I'm just starting out and assembling/painting my army - also learning the rules, so I haven't even played yet. But still, just curious about the future of this army that I have committed my time (and money) to.

We are getting some minor things, like a new Kharn and a campaign book.

Otherwise, there is no concrete evidence of any major changes. The Imperial Guard also got a campaign book and it did not make any remarkable impact either.

Are you CSM players using FW?

 Ashiraya wrote:

Lennac wrote:
Just started collecting... picked Chaos Space Marines (lore and aesthetics).

Then I look at the results of this poll.

Welcome to the club. :(

TFW you've collected chaos for the last 18 or so years so you got to watch the backslide of an army you've worked on for years...

 Zaku212 wrote:

 Ashiraya wrote:

Lennac wrote:
Just started collecting... picked Chaos Space Marines (lore and aesthetics).

Then I look at the results of this poll.

Welcome to the club. :(

TFW you've collected chaos for the last 18 or so years so you got to watch the backslide of an army you've worked on for years...

It's not all Doom and Gloom though.. You can use IA: 13 supplied by FW which gives CSM a major facelift (compared with its current codex), but you need to make sure your area is comfortable with FW first

Gree wrote:


The Flyrant did't shoot at anything. He just charged into close combat the turn he was able to and I couldn't do anything because the Genestealers where locked in combat with my main shooty units. The Flyrant proceeded to slaughter my Centurions.

If you're loosing to an army with genestealers and a CC flyrant.... yeah, not really an army problem is it? There's a reason I presumed he had a dakka flyrant.

Gree wrote:
He was using the Ghosar Broodkin Formation to Turn One assault with the Genestealers.

Well that answers it... they're not part of the Tyranid codex, they're genestealer cult, which are allies of convenience... so the brood can use it, but not your normal codex variant genestealers.

 Baldeagle91 wrote:

If you're loosing to an army with genestealers and a CC flyrant.... yeah, not really an army problem is it? There's a reason I presumed he had a dakka flyrant.

I was more responding to the idea that Tyranids are bad at CC. My own experiences sharply differ from what people on the internet say. I've had Tyranid Monstrous Creatures rip apart my squads on more than one occasion.

Nor do I consider there to be a problem with myself.

 Baldeagle91 wrote:

Well that answers it... they're not part of the Tyranid codex, they're genestealer cult, which are allies of convenience... so the brood can use it, but not your normal codex variant genestealers.

Same difference as far as I'm concerned.

But it matters for how formations interact. Genestealers from C: Tyranids can't benefit from that formation.

Martel732 wrote:
But it matters for how formations interact. Genestealers from C: Tyranids can't benefit from that formation.

Again, same difference as far as I'm concerned. It's all bugs to me.

 happygolucky wrote:

 Zaku212 wrote:

 Ashiraya wrote:

Lennac wrote:
Just started collecting... picked Chaos Space Marines (lore and aesthetics).

Then I look at the results of this poll.

Welcome to the club. :(

TFW you've collected chaos for the last 18 or so years so you got to watch the backslide of an army you've worked on for years...

It's not all Doom and Gloom though.. You can use IA: 13 supplied by FW which gives CSM a major facelift (compared with its current codex), but you need to make sure your area is comfortable with FW first

I wouldnt call it a major face lift, its a rather small one. It just gives you some good stuff that ultimately gets dragged down by the garbage.

Gree wrote:

Martel732 wrote:
But it matters for how formations interact. Genestealers from C: Tyranids can't benefit from that formation.

Again, same difference as far as I'm concerned. It's all bugs to me.

But that makes the situations not comparable, because I wouldn't let this person bend the rules in this way. You agreed to make the Tyranids more powerful than they actually are.

Gree wrote:

 Baldeagle91 wrote:

If you're loosing to an army with genestealers and a CC flyrant.... yeah, not really an army problem is it? There's a reason I presumed he had a dakka flyrant.

I was more responding to the idea that Tyranids are bad at CC. My own experiences sharply differ from what people on the internet say. I've had Tyranid Monstrous Creatures rip apart my squads on more than one occasion.

Nor do I consider there to be a problem with myself.

 Baldeagle91 wrote:

Well that answers it... they're not part of the Tyranid codex, they're genestealer cult, which are allies of convenience... so the brood can use it, but not your normal codex variant genestealers.

Same difference as far as I'm concerned.

Fottslogging MC's, especially nid's CC footslogging MC's are pretty weak in the current meta, if you're struggling against them you can't really complain.

Gree wrote:

Martel732 wrote:
But it matters for how formations interact. Genestealers from C: Tyranids can't benefit from that formation.

Again, same difference as far as I'm concerned. It's all bugs to me.

Are you being fething serious or trying to troll people here?

'well chaos space marines aren't weak because normal space marines do fine'
'but they're different codexes'
*Shrugs* 'They're all Astartes to me'

 Baldeagle91 wrote:

Gree wrote:

Martel732 wrote:
But it matters for how formations interact. Genestealers from C: Tyranids can't benefit from that formation.

Again, same difference as far as I'm concerned. It's all bugs to me.

Are you being fething serious or trying to troll people here?

'well chaos space marines aren't weak because normal space marines do fine'
'but they're different codexes'
*Shrugs* 'They're all Astartes to me'

Don't worry, Dakka is 1/3rd trolls, 1/3rd people who don't know what they're on about, 1/3rd aged vets who don't like anything anymore, and 3/3rds not gonna agree on anything.

Martel732 wrote:


But that makes the situations not comparable, because I wouldn't let this person bend the rules in this way. You agreed to make the Tyranids more powerful than they actually are.

How was he bending the rules? It was only the forces from the Deathwatch Overkill that did that infiltration. What's the issue here? Did you think I meant that Genestealers from Codex Tyranids where using those rules?

 Baldeagle91 wrote:

Fottslogging MC's, especially nid's CC footslogging MC's are pretty weak in the current meta, if you're struggling against them you can't really complain.

I'm not complaining. I'm just commenting on my personal experiences. I find what people say on the internet to rarely match up in reality when I play games.

And what I actually have a problem with is the CC Flyrant who is the primary threat in tearing apart my formations. Footslogging MC's are a secondary threat compared to him.

 Baldeagle91 wrote:

Are you being fething serious or trying to troll people here?

'well chaos space marines aren't weak because normal space marines do fine'
'but they're different codexes'
*Shrugs* 'They're all Astartes to me'

.

I know more about Astartes than I do Xenos, hence my answer. To me it's just a bunch of new bugs across the table, even if ruleswise they're just allies. No trolling. I'm quite serious.

I'm not certain what the issue is here. Unless people plan to drive over to my gaming store and play in my local meta, what exactly is the problem?

" Did you think I meant that Genestealers from Codex Tyranids where using those rules? "

Yes.

Martel732 wrote:
" Did you think I meant that Genestealers from Codex Tyranids where using those rules? "

Yes.

Ah, I see now. My apologies then for the confusion. I probably should have been clearer.

 VictorVonTzeentch wrote:

 happygolucky wrote:

 Zaku212 wrote:

 Ashiraya wrote:

Lennac wrote:
Just started collecting... picked Chaos Space Marines (lore and aesthetics).

Then I look at the results of this poll.

Welcome to the club. :(

TFW you've collected chaos for the last 18 or so years so you got to watch the backslide of an army you've worked on for years...

It's not all Doom and Gloom though.. You can use IA: 13 supplied by FW which gives CSM a major facelift (compared with its current codex), but you need to make sure your area is comfortable with FW first

I wouldnt call it a major face lift, its a rather small one. It just gives you some good stuff that ultimately gets dragged down by the garbage.

Must be a difference in areas, as I've found CSM to really push up the ladder with FW in my area .

Competitive CSM with FW can barely compete with casual Top 4 lists.