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With the changes to wounds and weapon range, I wonder if squads with multiple templates are now wasting that potential. Can you still stack enough wounds on a target AND have enough potential casualties in range?

If they have the same name and you weren't relying on other weapons in the squad to extend their range, then they still work mostly the same. If the two template weapons are different, then expect a rules argument.

no argument at all. you shoot all template weapons with name XX, resolve wounds, remove models and then move on to the next template weapon. if template weapon YY doesn't have anything close enough cover with it's template, well that's just too bad. the rules are pretty clear on how that works now.

Mavnas wrote:If they have the same name and you weren't relying on other weapons in the squad to extend their range, then they still work mostly the same. If the two template weapons are different, then expect a rules argument.

varl wrote:no argument at all. you shoot all template weapons with name XX, resolve wounds, remove models and then move on to the next template weapon. if template weapon YY doesn't have anything close enough cover with it's template, well that's just too bad. the rules are pretty clear on how that works now.

I believe this is incorrect.

7th rulebook wrote:Multiple Templates
If a unit is firing more than one shot with the Template type, resolve each shot, one at a time, as described above, determining and recording how many hits are scored by each template. Once the number of hits from all templates has been determined, roll To Wound as normal.

autopilot wrote:

Mavnas wrote:If they have the same name and you weren't relying on other weapons in the squad to extend their range, then they still work mostly the same. If the two template weapons are different, then expect a rules argument.

varl wrote:no argument at all. you shoot all template weapons with name XX, resolve wounds, remove models and then move on to the next template weapon. if template weapon YY doesn't have anything close enough cover with it's template, well that's just too bad. the rules are pretty clear on how that works now.

I believe this is incorrect.

7th rulebook wrote:Multiple Templates
If a unit is firing more than one shot with the Template type, resolve each shot, one at a time, as described above, determining and recording how many hits are scored by each template. Once the number of hits from all templates has been determined, roll To Wound as normal.

This assuming the template weapons share the same Name/Profile (like Pyrovores). If you have different template weapons then you have to resolve each group one at time

I think the rules are unclear, I would play 'all template weapons with the same name fire together' just to err on the side of caution, but there's definitely an argument for 'all template weapons' regardless of name firing together...

To answer the question, I don't think mixed templates are worthwhile, I was running flamer/heavy flamer in my battle sister squads, but I think I will change to melta/heavy flamer, maybe a combo flamer on the superior which I'd save for a round of overwatch.

D

 evildrcheese wrote:
I think the rules are unclear, I would play 'all template weapons with the same name fire together' just to err on the side of caution, but there's definitely an argument for 'all template weapons' regardless of name firing together...

To answer the question, I don't think mixed templates are worthwhile, I was running flamer/heavy flamer in my battle sister squads, but I think I will change to melta/heavy flamer, maybe a combo flamer on the superior which I'd save for a round of overwatch.

D

You can't really mix and match different template weapons since you would have to create a single To Hit Heap without knowing what Template weapon are you wounding with

The rules are incredibly clear.

If you have a Heavy Flamer and a Flamer in the same IG Veterans squad when you fire you will only be making 1 shot with a template weapon at a time. First 1 with the Flamer, then 1 with the Heavy flamer; both fully resolved.

If you take the same veterans squad and give them 3 flamers, then you will be making 3 shots with template weapons at the same time, so you place all 3 templates and determine the number of hits, then continue to resolve those hits.

The third example with the Vets are 2 Flamers and a Heavy flamer; you make 2 shots with the flamer then 1 shot with the Heavy Flamer.

No issues, no need for arguments.

In all cases the range is that of the template, 1 for the heavy flamer, and any of the 1-3 for the flamers depending on the number of flamers of course.

For the purpose of counting as the same weapon, are twin linked versions resolved with their non twin linked types?

As you can see, the rules aren't perfectly clear, otherwise every thread that mentions mixing and matching templates wouldn't have this same discussion.

I definitely fall on the side of all templates with the same weapon name fire at once. Different named templates fire after.

 Kommissar Kel wrote:
The rules are incredibly clear.

If you have a Heavy Flamer and a Flamer in the same IG Veterans squad when you fire you will only be making 1 shot with a template weapon at a time. First 1 with the Flamer, then 1 with the Heavy flamer; both fully resolved.

If you take the same veterans squad and give them 3 flamers, then you will be making 3 shots with template weapons at the same time, so you place all 3 templates and determine the number of hits, then continue to resolve those hits.

The third example with the Vets are 2 Flamers and a Heavy flamer; you make 2 shots with the flamer then 1 shot with the Heavy Flamer.

No issues, no need for arguments.

In all cases the range is that of the template, 1 for the heavy flamer, and any of the 1-3 for the flamers depending on the number of flamers of course.

Well the rules obviously aren't that clear because people are having different interpretations. I agree with the above assessment and that is the way I would play it, but I wouldn't be surprised if you encountered people who tried to argue it the other way.

In regard to the TL question I would say they are still resolved with other weapons with the same name, but you would need different dice/roll them separately to know which you're getting re-rolls to wound on, but they all go into the same 'wound pool' for when saves need to be taken.

D

Where the hell does it say anything about them having to be the same name? That's a pretty big assumption, it just says "templates". If it was for the ones with the same name it would have to say so. Where on earth are we getting this same name thing from?

Shuppet, start of the shootign section (page 82 I think?) says that you fire weapons with different names at different times. The confusion arises from where the two rules (differently named weapons fire separately and templates fire together) conflict.

Oh I see now. Well yeah that is really debatable. I looked at it for a bit and I would probably play it that all wound resolving happens after the templates hit, as that's how it works with everything else, and the shooting phase specifically tells you to roll all your to hits before rolling wounds.

On top of that, if there is any conflict I believe its safe to say the multiple template rules override it.

TYhat's my interpretation.

Multiple templates yes. Just spread them through out the unit instead of being next to each other to increase the threat range of the flamers.

In 7th you fully resolve one type of weapon's shooting before moving on to the next.

This means for example, if you have plasma weapons, you can fire all the others first then decide not to risk the Gets Hot! Or fire all your assault weapons, then decide not to fire things that would prevent you from charging.

Rig gardens of how you split it up, you still can't kill models further from the firing unit than the length of the template, making things like Burnas, quad HF Rets, and anything else that relied on 4+ templates to pound wounds out essentially worthless.

Not really, just spread out the flame templates around the unit as best you can. Now if they were all bunched up at the front then yea but that is just poor placement. Hell, tankshock into the middle of his unit and then use the flamers.

Options, there are plenty.

DaddyWarcrimes wrote:
Rig gardens of how you split it up, you still can't kill models further from the firing unit than the length of the template, making things like Burnas, quad HF Rets, and anything else that relied on 4+ templates to pound wounds out essentially worthless.

Unless they had Torrent. (I'm thinking about Crisis Suits and Promethium Pipes.)