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I had a bit of a debate at the local club tonight about dreads sucking balls vs MC and now with the change to vehicle dmg table they are a bit more survivable but still pretty bad. The other guy said dreads are op and crush everything with their S10 attacks turning MCs to mush.

I remember reading somewhere that unless its a DCCW the dreadnought has the S listed in it's profile.

Example:
-SM
Ironclad
Dreadnought
Venerable Dreadnought

These are all S6 if using the Power fist they come with
-SW
Dreadnought
Venerable Dreadnought

These would be S10 because they come with Dreadnought Close Combat Weapons


I remember reading somewhere that unless it's a DCCW the model uses it's base S


When looking around it's hard to find Walkers that actually have DCCW nowdays. All new codicies use Power Fists if I'm not mistaken (except for the Soul Grinder which has Iron Claw which is pretty much a DCCW).

The only walkers in the game with DCCW that I can recall right now are the ones in SW, BA, Ork and Adepta Sororitas codicies. Maybe Orks will lose their DCCW in their next book, kinda funny how Killa Kans have DCCW but not SM Dreadnoughts. SW and BA will probably change to power fists, no idea what the Penitent Engines weapons would turn into, Power Saws? Chain Fists?


Was it in one of the old FAQ's that said dreads are base strength or am I completely lost?
Can someone point me to a rules page where it states how walkers handle close combat weapons. Are all weapons worn by a walker now counted as a DCCW? Even though power fist is listed on pretty much everything?
If they use the actual rules for power fists, does that mean they all strike at I1?

I did search and found a thread for 2011 that said Dreads use their base S unless they have a DCCW, it listed the page 73 of 5E which says:
"Walkers are often armed with huge close combat weapons - hammers, wrecking balls, claws, etc.
A Dreadnought close combat weapon is a power weapon and doubles the walker's Strength in close combat (up to a maximum of 10)."

7E Has this:
DCCW
Some troops are armed with huge close combat weapons - hammers, wrecking balls, claws and other crushing implements of death. S2x AP2 Melee

So is everything a walker is armed with a DCCW? If not, then what AP would the weapon be?

What is the Weapon profile of a Power Fist?

Dreadnoughts are Strength 6, CCW is x2 so max is S10 hits

All walker CCW are counted as power fists, which are Sx2 AP2, with their base of S6 they swing at S10 AP2. Small side note, I also believe they swing at their initiative as well. So yes they are monsters if they can assault and survive.

JinxDragon wrote:
What is the Weapon profile of a Power Fist?

Power Fist S2x Ap2 Melee, Specialist Weapon, Unwieldy

So would the dread be Initiative 1? I've seen no rule that says dreads attack at base Initiative regardless of weapon used.

So only difference between a DCCW and Power Fist is that the fist has Specialist Weapon and Unwieldy.

Walkers do actually have a Rule addressing which initiative they attack at with Unwieldy Weapons....
I think it is actually under the Unwieldy Special Rule itself as I have vague memories of it being somewhere strange.

JinxDragon wrote:
Walkers do actually have a Rule addressing which initiative they attack at with Unwieldy Weapons....
I think it is actually under the Unwieldy Special Rule itself as I have vague memories of it being somewhere strange.

Yes, check the Unwieldy USR to see how it interacts with Walkers and MC's

Unwieldy
A model attacking with this weapon Piles In and Fights at Initiative step 1, unless it is a MC or Walker.


So why did they change every single entry to power fist for walkers? Why not just list them as DCCW?

Without looking into the minds of the Author, sorry I am not telepathic, we will never know....

If I was to give them more credit then they deserve:
Probably so they can have vanilla Close Combat Weapon's on future Dreadnaught / Walker Models without someone trying to claim that it has to be a Dreadnaught Close Combat Weapon.

DCCWs are listed in the BRB and have their own stat line. They are neither unwieldy nor specialist.

so dread CCW's stack with other CCW's, like power scourge or some such. power fists are specialist and need other specialist weapons (because a lightning claw giving a powerfist another attack makes so much more sense than a normal weapon).

Base strength is used if you've replaced the dreads arms with guns and no longer have powerfists, and it's also used for hammer o' wrath hits.

I thought they were going to phase out DCCW's entirely and switch everything to Power fist, but clearly the DCCW is here to stay (For now anyway).

DCCW were a 5th Ed weapon, where the was no "Unwieldy" on melee profiles, no melee profiles period. Arming a Dreadnought with a PF in those days would have reduced them to Int 1.

With the arrival of 6th it was no longer an issue, and power fists would not have affected Walkers. The only difference is the specialist weapon rule, but most walkers couldn't take 2 DCCW to begin with, and those who could, well, just give them 2 power fists for example (BA Furioso Dread and its dual Bloodfists) and problem solved.