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After doing some googling, I found the odd fact that the UK still plays 40K and fantasy using inches, and that such measurements are more common than people would think.

In Europe, such as Spain or France, many measurements are converted to metric.

Here in the US, it's all inches, but that's our standard anyway.

To the point though, is there any real backlash against games that use centimeters over inches? I ask this of people of all countries, including USA and places where centimeters are the standard already.

Here in the US, I can see using cm being a problem only in that we're "MURICA!" and we use inches. And also our inexperience with that measurement leading to bad estimations. Then there's the availability of metric tape measures and the like.

It really depends on the game.

40K and Fantasy use Imperial measurements simply because they scale out better for miniatures that size. Epic and BFG used metric, for the same reason.

If you don't want to use inches, convert 1" to 2 or 3 cm and it'll be close enough.

As long as everything stays in scale, the 'size' of one game inch really doesn't matter.

In my experience British rules use inches for 25mm scale and centimetres for 15mm and smaller scales. Like Insaniak said, the dimensions fit well with the model scale.

Some games use "base widths" from the standard width of a unit rather than inches or cm.

I haven't heard much about "backlash" regarding inches or cm. That said, most games here in the USA seem to use inches. We've used a few rulesets that measure in cm, but those are few and far between. The only cm-based game that we regularly play that I can think off offhand is SBH, but that's simply the length of the measuring sticks the game uses. After they are made, no one thinks of them in terms of cm or inches.

Even games in smaller scales such as Mech Attack, Alpha Strike, Panzer 8, and Full Thrust, use inches. IIRC, Future War Commander (a game from the UK we used to play) is a 6-15mm scale game that does use CM.

As for the availability of measurement tools, I've personally had no difficulty finding metric rulers and tape measures, even if I rarely have use for them.

I don't know of any real issues with using inches vs. centimeters. Back when Battlefleet Gothic came out, I just picked up a tape measure that had both on it and I've been good ever since. That tape measure still works, amazingly enough, for being $2 at Home Depot.

It may matter more in games like Warhammer Fantasy and Warhammer 40K - using an unfamiliar measuring system diddles with folks ability to estimate distances for thing like range and charges.

This can be frustrating.

On the other hand, when I played Battlefleet Gothic... my memories of using the optics bench at school kicked in - so I was able to 'guess' to withing a centimeter or less, and ringed his bases on a regular basis - which was fun for me, and not fun for him.

The Auld Grump

In the UK, most of us are familiar with both Imperial and Metric system. This is mainly because, although we officially switched to Metric during the seventies, the older generation didn't really change. My parents (in their 60s now) still use Imperial, and can't really use Metric.

This was a more prominent in the 80s, when Warhammer was being devised. I'd imagine that all the games developers at GW in the 80s would have been raised at home to use inches and then taught cm at school. Certainly the generation of historical war gamers before them in the 70s would have been a lot more comfortable with inches.

The Space Marine / EPIC game system was released a bit later than 40k, and the switch to cm could have happened merely because inches was found to be a bit too unwieldy for that scale.

 Vertrucio wrote:
After doing some googling, I found the odd fact that the UK still plays 40K and fantasy using inches, and that such measurements are more common than people would think.

In Europe, such as Spain or France, many measurements are converted to metric.

It depends. Sometimes it's in centimeters, sometimes in "paces", with "1 pace = 25mm".

Dear rules writer, if everything has to be in multiples of 25mm, feel free to use inches. Dealing with movement rates of 12.5cm and ranges of 17.5cm is a pain in the bottom.

The only big problem with inches is how to find adequate rulers, since most european countries have adopted the metric system for more than a century now...

I end up using Inches for pretty much everything but most of the rules iv'e bought recently have distances listed in both metric and imperial so as long as the conversions are accurate it really doesn't matter

 TheAuldGrump wrote:
It may matter more in games like Warhammer Fantasy and Warhammer 40K - using an unfamiliar measuring system diddles with folks ability to estimate distances for thing like range and charges.

Less so these days when you can measure whenever you like.

Although we progressive Euros have converted to Metric system long ago we still know what inches are, so it is not a problem at all. Up until recently, inches were industry standard in construction and most tape measures sold had both inches and cm's, some still do. Alas, infamous GW red whippy sticks don't have real inches, but bizarre "metric inches" (25mm) which makes them somewhat shorter than real inches...

Yes, huge backlash! By using the wrong unit of measurement you will be blackballed and ostracized by gamers the world over.. Driven from town to town by mobs with pitchforks and torches, pelting you with handfuls of misshapen dice. You will find no rest, respite, or comfort. There is no chance for redemption.

Of course it only depends on what the rules call for as to the unit of measure you use.

Flames of War allows players to use either Imperial or Metric measurements.

Litcheur wrote:
The only big problem with inches is how to find adequate rulers, since most european countries have adopted the metric system for more than a century now...

More than a century?...

I haven't seen it as an issue though, living in Australia where I get the feeling we are more metric than anywhere else in the world (the only times I've seen imperial units used is old timers measuring a persons height/weight of a baby) every tape measure and ruler I've come across has both metric and imperial units on them. Although we typicaly still use calories not joules when measuring energy but you'll never see calories printed on food packaging dietary information.

As has already been mentioned I think it's simply that Imperial measurements were in use when the scales of minatures first started becoming standard so it just works to keep it that way. My limited experience in role playing games typicaly newer/non-american ones use metres not feet to measure spells and affects.

I had little experience with inches (beyond Subway) until I got into 40k. Now, I dare say I'm better at judging short distances in inches than I am in centimetres!

xraytango wrote:
Yes, huge backlash! By using the wrong unit of measurement you will be blackballed and ostracized by gamers the world over.. Driven from town to town by mobs with pitchforks and torches, pelting you with handfuls of misshapen dice. You will find no rest, respite, or comfort. There is no chance for redemption.

Shhhh! He isn't supposed to know about that until it's too late!

Of course it only depends on what the rules call for as to the unit of measure you use.

That's better.

The Auld Grump

 Madcat87 wrote:

More than a century?...

I haven't seen it as an issue though, living in Australia where I get the feeling we are more metric than anywhere else in the world (the only times I've seen imperial units used is old timers measuring a persons height/weight of a baby) every tape measure and ruler I've come across has both metric and imperial units on them. Although we typicaly still use calories not joules when measuring energy but you'll never see calories printed on food packaging dietary information.

Up here, people are familiar with inch and maybe nautical mile, and that's pretty much it for Imperial units...even inches have began to disappear, construction uses millimetres nowadays, and most tape measures are all-metric. However, inches aren't THAT foreign that people won't recognize them. Finland of course never really used Imperial units anyway, our domestic non-metric measurements have almost entirely disappeared long ago.

In aviation we went 'backwards', it used to be Metric but converted to Imperial some time ago...

I've killed a man for using centimeters.

Actually, its no problem save for finding measuring tapes that have metric on them here in the US.

 Madcat87 wrote:
More than a century?...

Yup.

France and Portugal for more than 2 centuries, actually.

More than 1 century : Austria, Belgium, Denmark, Germany, Finland, Italy, Hungary, Netherlands, Norway, Romania, Serbia, Spain, Turkey (and numerous south american states as well).

Both measuring tapes and five out of the six rulers sitting in this room have both inch and cm increments... and I didn't specifically search them out. I would never have considered the ability to find them a potential problem, but maybe that was just dumb luck.

Having been raised 'Murikan, I can only "think" in inches and feet, but I regularly switch between systems when measuring for practical applications (cutting small parts for model builds, etc.) - just as with gaming, sometimes one system fits the scale better. So long as I don't have to guess ranges (I prefer pre-measure systems, anyway), I'd have no issue using metric measurement. Might actually welcome it as a chance to increase my familiarity therewith.

 Vertrucio wrote:


Here in the US, I can see using cm being a problem only in that we're "MURICA!" and we use inches. And also our inexperience with that measurement leading to bad estimations. Then there's the availability of metric tape measures and the like.

That's why you best fake it.

X-Wing uses cm, but simply doesn't tell you it does. (e.g. 10 cm = "Range 1", 20 cm = "Range 2", etc....).

Regular ship-bases are 4 cm. Thus a "1 forward" is moving 8cm for a regular ship (4 cm move + 4 cm base). A "2 forward" is a 12 cm for a regular ship, etc..

All the benefits of the metric systems while avoiding the "emotional" backlash against "non-inches".

On the downside, many X-Wing players struggle to accept it when you show up with a regular ol' tape-measure instead of all the fancy FFG-cardboard.

 insaniak wrote:
It really depends on the game.

40K and Fantasy use Imperial measurements simply because they scale out better for miniatures that size. Epic and BFG used metric, for the same reason.

I loved the use of metric for BFG! But I do feel the unit of measurement (cm) is too small for ease of use in a 28mm game, where inches just "feels right".

I especially loved trying to guess range with a Nova cannon in centimeters in BFG. Definitely gave the feel of a massive distance when guessing 150cm for range

 oadie wrote:
Both measuring tapes and five out of the six rulers sitting in this room have both inch and cm increments... and I didn't specifically search them out. I would never have considered the ability to find them a potential problem, but maybe that was just dumb luck.

Having been raised 'Murikan, I can only "think" in inches and feet, but I regularly switch between systems when measuring for practical applications (cutting small parts for model builds, etc.) - just as with gaming, sometimes one system fits the scale better. So long as I don't have to guess ranges (I prefer pre-measure systems, anyway), I'd have no issue using metric measurement. Might actually welcome it as a chance to increase my familiarity therewith.

Same here, as a fellow Murikan!, i find it nearly impossible to estimate cm on the tabletop, so games using metric are far less appealing to me.

The original Dark Age was a really fun game. Metric killed it for me. I got so f'ing sick and tired of missing ranges by just a couple CM.

(Fair warning: I'm also a construction estimator / project manager, so ... yeah... getting me to not think in imperial is pretty much f'ing impossible).

Both metric and imperial have their merits and uses, and both ought to be taught in schools (in my school we only,ever used metric).

I prefer to wargame in Imperial, but I only play games in the relatively large scale of 28mm. All my tape measures have been dual imperial/metric. Imperial is more suited to everyday tasks, such as speed limits, food weights, beer and milk pints etc. It's easier to visualize a measurement when the scale of units is larger and the number smaller e.g. 12 stone vs 300 kg, 80mph vs 120kph, 1 pint vs 798 ml. (And yes I know those numbers aren't eq.)

Whereas Metric is more suited to technical tasks e.g. science, mathematics.

And I'm 23, it's got nothing to do with age.

In most wargames rules you don't need to estimate, so the practical problem is the availability of tape measures with the units marked on them for local users.

As a Brit I have been used all my life to buying rulers and measures that have inches and cm on them. I suffered culture shock when living in Japan I went to buy a tape measure and found it had cm and cm. Not an inch to be found!

Here in the UK I think those of us in a certain age bracket, i.e. 35+ years old, are used to working in both units - Imperial and Metric - as our parents will invariably talk in imperial but we will have been taught in metric.

Of course, we still use a lot of imperial measurements over here; miles per hour, miles per gallon (our gallon, not the American gallon) miles in distance, clothes & shoes. Being an engineer I work in millimetres, metres, kilograms and tons, but I couldn't tell you how many kilometres it is from home to work.

To be honest, I always thought that it was down to tradition,

everything started in inches, it worked well, so no-ones bothered to try and change that, the longer it stays tradition, the more ingrained it becomes.

Eventually, perhaps the only place where the imperial system will remain is in wargaming

The only pain in the backside it causes is in terrain building, particularly for non-heroic-scaled games like Infinity. One of the things holding me back on my infinity terrian is that every time I go to make templates, I try to base things off 1" increments (the smallest infinity base diameter) and all my graph paper is in metric, so lots awkward decimals involved...

Just use either 25mm increments, which will match the base size, or use 30mm to give you some more leeway.

I was playing Malifaux on some terrain built for 25mm, which meant by 30mm bases didn't quite fit anywhere resulting in some awkward placement.

Inches are the only measuring system
All others are heresy