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Made in nz
Fresh-Faced New User




H-town, Waikato, NZ

Here's a question. If an Eldar Guardian's plasma grenade is resolved in combat, why is it resolved at S:3 with no armour piercing? Refined Eldar plasma should yield a S:6 AP:2 hit with a S:4 AP:5 blast marker around it.
I dislike what they have done with grenades (ie. nerfed them). I have been toying with the idea of grenade tokens to go along with various ammo packs and weapon enhancements (range-boosts, enhanced ammo, fruity flavours). Units could have grenadiers added to them, like any other specialists. Certain armies could have whole units of grenadiers (Marines, Kabalite Warriors, Imp. G. Hardened Vets) or grenade specialists (Swooping Hawks, Stikkbommas).
The biggest problem is finding some way to restrict the possibilities because you should not be able to just kit your whole army out with range, strength and shooting boosts (except Tau, who come with that built in, giving them the stats they have now). Being able to make one of your units suddenly unleash an extra-powerful turn of shooting would be cool and may add some tactical elements to the game. That is: some aces up sleeves. As it is now I usually find that the army whose stats are mostly fours and has a really good armour tend to win (Marines, Chaos, Lizardmen in Fantasy). Lighter units wind up being useless because 'they can't compete with Marines". Of course they can't compete with Marines! Marines are elite, not the lowest common denominator of the game. A guardsman unit all of a sudden unleashing radiation or virus bombs against the oncoming Chaos Terminators would be good way for a game to turn around really quickly. The same if those Terminators had just blitzed a Baneblade with a gravity bomb or some kind of warp rune in the preceding turn.
One more question to close out: who would throw an explosive hand grenade "to force their opponent to keep their head down in cover" and then run toward the thing? Casualties from delayed explosions would be significant, and again, not resolved at the stats of the attacker.
   
Made in us
Gore-Soaked Lunatic Witchhunter







I'm confused as to the question. You're worried grenades have been nerfed so you want Eldar plasma grenades to have the same effect as a krak grenade and as a frag grenade at the same time plus AP2?

"The army whose stats are mostly fours and has a really good armour tend to win" is patently wrong; most Space Marine books and Chaos Marines are markedly inferior to Eldar, Tau, and Daemons under the current rules. "Lighter units end up being useless because 'they can't compete with Marines'" is a logical fallacy that assumes more expensive troops are better. Giving ancient relics of the Great Crusade that are rare and restricted in 30k lists to Guardsmen as a way to allow five-point Guardsmen to compete with forty-point Chaos Terminators doesn't make sense from either a lore or balance perspective.

As to your closing question grenades are an Assault weapon that can be used in the Shooting phase. Throw grenade, charge, the enemy takes casualties from the grenade at the grenade's profile in that turn.

The fundamental question of whether grenadiers with a variety of grenades as specialists would be interesting is not a bad one, but your reasoning is full of holes.

Balanced Game: Noun. A game in which all options and choices are worth using.
Homebrew oldhammer project: https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/790996.page#10896267
Meridian: Necromunda-based 40k skirmish: https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/795374.page 
   
Made in gb
Longtime Dakkanaut






I would have liked grenades to be in lieu of overwatch. great, now those plague marines are firing their boltguns, getting out their plague swords and throwing grenades to give me less attacks... ...in a couple of seconds whilst I charge... ...right...

plasma grenades that are overpowered? nah, sounds overpowered (I paraphrased your rules)

complaining that the eldar (ballistic skill 4 with 2 shot S4 guns that are AP2 on 6's can't cope with T4 units with 3+ saves? what are you doing wrong? are you just throwing grenades, 'cos that won't do it.

grenades are severely underused and GW seems to misunderstand what they really do...

they should have had:

Flashbangs: no overwatch if hit in preceding shooting phase, blind
assault grenades: enemies attack at I1 if you're charging them through terrain (like the old editions, where throwing a grenade doesn't magically make you charge through cover easier).
Defensive Grenades: S3, used as overwatch, if they hit then the opponent has -1 attack.


12,300 points of Orks
9th W/D/L with Orks, 4/0/2
I am Thoruk, the Barbarian, Slayer of Ducks, and This is my blog!

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