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I know genestealers are generally disregarded. I'd like to see if there is any list that can prove viable in 7th with genestealers.

You could use large bare bones units anchored with broodlorda lead by a deathleaper? With infiltrate you should be on top of or near all objectives

 kaiservonhugal wrote:
I know genestealers are generally disregarded. I'd like to see if there is any list that can prove viable in 7th with genestealers.

You could use large bare bones units anchored with broodlorda lead by a deathleaper? With infiltrate you should be on top of or near all objectives

Over in army lists I have a 7th ed Skyblight list that has wandered over into a "Psycho" list library. Just today I posted "Psycho Stealer"

People are still stuck in a 6ed mindset. Stealers will be more of a viable option imo, based purely on the meta (expect MSU and mech to be much more prevalent) and missions (board control with an objective secured unit is gonna be gold).

What I am still working on is how best to leverage stealers. Big blocks worked well against mech spam in 5ed but there's so many changes since then that I am not sure its viable. I am thinking MSU-esque stealers might be best but 6 units of them just doesn't seem to cut it. Its too bad dual CAD is not going to be a thing cause I'd much prefer to have 12 troop slots to play around with.

20-40 Genestealers boxing in your deployment zone is just as good as it ever was or better (thanks Maelstrom!), even though no one actually played it.

Let's be honest, their job is to die. But they have to die first, or else they can sweep an army. So they die, giving you control of the rest of the board. Controlling the rest of the board will be early points, and easy assaults.

 winterman wrote:
People are still stuck in a 6ed mindset. Stealers will be more of a viable option imo, based purely on the meta (expect MSU and mech to be much more prevalent) and missions (board control with an objective secured unit is gonna be gold).

What I am still working on is how best to leverage stealers. Big blocks worked well against mech spam in 5ed but there's so many changes since then that I am not sure its viable. I am thinking MSU-esque stealers might be best but 6 units of them just doesn't seem to cut it. Its too bad dual CAD is not going to be a thing cause I'd much prefer to have 12 troop slots to play around with.

You can take as many CADs as you wish. Or are you talking about in a tournament setting?

Tournament legal pretty much anywhere.


2 kitted out flyrants:wings, double twinlinked brainleech, old adversary, electroshock grubs.
manufactorum genestealer brood all with broodlords/w scything talons
6 squads of genestealers all with broodlords/w scything talons
1 extra genestealer thrown in somewhere.

since your manufactorum broods are infiltrating 2" away your opponent wont have time to shoot at your flyrants or the other 6 squads running up the field.

Hard to kill 12 squads of genestealers with broodlords before they take out half your army. also having 17+ dice is good psychic defence when you consider your DtW rolls are 5+ or better on every unit you own.


I wanna play this list badly, but dont have access to any nid models.

The Manufactorum genestealers can't take Broodlords. They can't add any more stealers to their squads. I've heard the argument that they say Genestealers and he isn't specifically one, but given that the other stealer formation has access to 1 Broodlord and has inferior infiltrate rules I'm sure they meant that the 5 stealer limit for each Manufactorum unit includes him. Also, how are you giving Broodlords scytals?

Hmm...... not sure now that you mention it. Battlescribe lets me take the broodlords and its usually spot on with what you can take although not all the time.

I remember back in 5th people used to do null deployment nids where you would take stealers mawlock and other deep-strike/outflank options, and you would deploy nothing on turn one, come in later with reserves.

I haven't read the new nid book, so I don't know how viable that will be...seems like it might be good, 'specially if you get the right warlord trait. The problem with it in 5th was always that continual problem deep-strike armies have of "Oh, I got screwed over by reserve rolls...gg"

 Windir83 wrote:
how are you giving Broodlords scytals?

Any model may take scything talons...X points/model.

That being said, I do think that Genestealers are viable nowadays. The trick is threat overload, really. Ask your opponents this. Are you really going to waste your shooting on a simple 21 man unit of Tyranids that will ruin your day in close combat, or are you going to try and shoot the 90+ that are in front of them, running directly at your lines with easy chances of turn 2 assaults and just mass chaos and shooting?

As all Tyranid players should know, you have more bodies than your opponent has bullets. Use that to your advantage.

As above, the area denial strategy with Genestealers can throw an opponent off guard, because Genestealers do deserve their fearsome reputation for devouring other units quickly if they make it into assault.

A Manufactorum Genestealers Formation (5x5) is 25 of them all up in your enemy's grill, gives you 5 MSU (which can also be used for objective grabbing if you like) and sets you back a mere 350 points.

A Broodlord Hunting Pack has few units (but can have more models), comes with a Broodlord* (see below) and is more dangerous in many respects (PE vs a unit of your choice). They can be used in much the same way as the Manufactorum Genestealers to deny/threaten a flank.

A Broodlord costs a lot (74 points for a Toxin/Scything Broodlord), but it adds a lot of hitting power, threatens all vehicles, can challenge and has the added bonus of being able to use The Horror to force a Pinning Check. Now that Pinned units cannot Overwatch, this is actually pretty good. Depending on how your gaming circle runs the rules (while we wait for an FAQ), the Broodlord can also get access to Dominion, which opens up...

The Go To Ground/Get Off The Ground trick. Genestealers are best deployed in cover. GTG in Ruins will give you at least a 3+ cover save, making your Genestealers almost as resilient as Marines. A huge, terrifying horde of Genestealers with a 3+ cover save requires substantial investment to bring down. The Get Off The Ground (GOTG) part involves bringing a Synapse creature up into range (or having the Broodlord cast Dominion if you have no others nearby). Your Genestealers can then charge (or move if you brought another Synapse creature up rather than going with Dominion). This is a nasty surprise.



So yes, Genestealers aren't bad. They aren't a brainless place and pwn unit Riptides or Wraithknights or Imperial Knights. They aren't a melee deathstar like Beast/Screamerstar that couples melee power with ridiculous survivability. They are a terror weapon that you can use to drive the pace of the game, and if left unchecked can inflict a great deal of damage. They do require a lot of thought though, and there will be days when they accomplish nothing at all.

They are a good unit, needs a Living Artillery supplement to have multiple TL pinning blasts of different strengths, this is the only way to get their I6 in combat. Stealers are decent but suffer the problem of all non Monster-heavy builds - lack of anti tank.

I went with 3 eGrubs Tyrannofexes who double as 2+ screen for the Stealers, 1 Flyrant as well.

Broodlords suck.

Well, back in 5th, I ran two Broods of x10 Stealers. And Two Broods of Hormies. It's even kinda "fluffy" you can screen the Stealers with Hormies, then the Stealers join CC, no overwatch. Mix a Veno in, and your Stealers can have a mighty fine cover save. If you can generate additional threats, you should be able to arrive intact.

I think that a fair sized Brood makes for a good Outflanker, even without being able to charge. It puts a huge amount of pressure on the enemy to react.

I think the biggest problem with Genestealers is their cost. A bare bones brood of Stealers with a Broodlord is the same as 26 hormagaunts. Now if you are looking to put pressure on the enemy I think that 26 hormagaunts are going to do it better than 5 genestealers and a broodlord.

Genestealers viability is directly related to their point cost and that is the sole reason I can't see them being viable in 7th edition.

 kaiservonhugal wrote:
I know genestealers are generally disregarded. I'd like to see if there is any list that can prove viable in 7th with genestealers.

You could use large bare bones units anchored with broodlorda lead by a deathleaper? With infiltrate you should be on top of or near all objectives

They are really good when used right from my perspective, maybe they were bad before, but they're good now

Arbiter_Shade wrote:
I think the biggest problem with Genestealers is their cost. A bare bones brood of Stealers with a Broodlord is the same as 26 hormagaunts. Now if you are looking to put pressure on the enemy I think that 26 hormagaunts are going to do it better than 5 genestealers and a broodlord.

Genestealers viability is directly related to their point cost and that is the sole reason I can't see them being viable in 7th edition.

That's because Broodlords suck.

Genestealers out damage hormagants point per point, and although hormagants soak up a lot more gunfire, they don't have infiltrate either and can't glance AV10 rear armor (very relevant). Hormagants are terrible and Terms are better in every way

 SHUPPET wrote:

Arbiter_Shade wrote:
I think the biggest problem with Genestealers is their cost. A bare bones brood of Stealers with a Broodlord is the same as 26 hormagaunts. Now if you are looking to put pressure on the enemy I think that 26 hormagaunts are going to do it better than 5 genestealers and a broodlord.

Genestealers viability is directly related to their point cost and that is the sole reason I can't see them being viable in 7th edition.

That's because Broodlords suck.

Genestealers out damage hormagants point per point, and although hormagants soak up a lot more gunfire, they don't have infiltrate either and can't glance AV10 rear armor (very relevant). Hormagants are terrible and Terms are better in every way

That's why you use Swarmlord alongside 'em

Use possibly the worst model in the codex alongside a unit completely outclassed by Termagants a point cheaper ? Not sure I understand the logic there but no thx I don't actually hate winning

 Windir83 wrote:
The Manufactorum genestealers can't take Broodlords. They can't add any more stealers to their squads. I've heard the argument that they say Genestealers and he isn't specifically one, but given that the other stealer formation has access to 1 Broodlord and has inferior infiltrate rules I'm sure they meant that the 5 stealer limit for each Manufactorum unit includes him. Also, how are you giving Broodlords scytals?

Still 25 stealers in your face in 2+/3+ cover is really hard to shift.

Arbiter_Shade wrote:
I think the biggest problem with Genestealers is their cost. A bare bones brood of Stealers with a Broodlord is the same as 26 hormagaunts. Now if you are looking to put pressure on the enemy I think that 26 hormagaunts are going to do it better than 5 genestealers and a broodlord.

Genestealers viability is directly related to their point cost and that is the sole reason I can't see them being viable in 7th edition.

I think there is some truth to this. If Stealers were say 11 per, I'd expect to start seeing them in play. That's about where Demonettes are, and Stealers are a lot like them in use.

Yeah, they are definitely over costed, but we can only work with what we're given. Pretty much every troop choice in our codec is bad. I simply feel that Genestealers + Broodlord are our most flexible option.

I feel that Broodlords are very viable and they don't suck contrary to SHUPPETT's opinion, however it is simply just my opinion versus his. I think that they are as valuable as 4 Genestealers and light years better than the rest of our other troops.

I would like to challenge SHUPPETT to answer WHY Broodlords suck. I know several reasons why I might not say that they are as OP as a wave serpent or a Riptide. Otoh nothing in the Tyranid codex matches those units (maybe except a Flyrant).

@pinecone: There is very little truth in both the statement you made and the one you quoted. Every hundred points of Stealers out damage 100 pts of Daemonettes by 150% even just against standard GEQ. Against TEQ it's more like 250%.

There is a lot of misconceptions and uneducated opinions about Stealers. They aren't what you'd call OP, but they are our best dedicated assault infantry unit and one of the better ones in the game. Hormagants however are absolute trash.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
@roxor: Broodlords suck because they are the price of 4 more Genestealers with points to spare. They do nothing but water down your survivability which is already Stealers' Achilles, and damage output. I don't know why people still take him tbh lol, feel free to share what is so great about him

Well for starters, a Broodlord is everything a Warrior should've except perhaps cost. His WS will allow him to hit everything on 3+, S and T 5, yet 3 W and a 4+ save just like a Warrior. I7 ensures you are going before any other unit except banshees and will probably have the Broodlord going first in challenges. I am going to ignore BS for now because there isn't a comparison.

I think I've shown in another thread that a Broodlord can statistically weather 27 Bolter shots before perishing. That T5 is a huge deal. He can't be ID'd except against S10, which let's be honest you probably should be going after with your MCs.

With Scything talons, a Broodlord gets 6 attacks on the charge. Rending and S5 should be putting 3-4 wounds on any T4 unit. Include Toxin sacs and you're gonna get another rending attack against the same unit.

But IMO the most value from a Broodlord comes from the utility it brings outside of his stats. The synergy between SitW and The Horror against Psyker units can be very detrimental to most Psyker units. Additionally, being able to cast Dominion now, thanks to Psychic focus, adds flexibility to the unit. Gonna lose combat against a better unit? Cast Dominion, and now your fearless. You've gone to ground to claim an objective (because you're Objective Secured) to take it from your opponent but can't commit another synapse creature to bring theme back to the fight? Cast Dominion and now you are back in action.

For a relatively small investment, 134 points, to gain all of this flexibility is, IMO, extremely valuable. Couple this with a super tough list, you force the opponent to think very hard about target priority and will definitely force bad decisions. Especially with 2 Flyrants, 2 Harpies, a Crone, a couple Carnifexen, and 3 units of re spawning Gargoyles....would you target that Genestealer unit in ruins 15" from your front lines?

Again, just my opinion, and yes, 64 points is a large investment, for a single model but MAKE it worth it.

 Unyielding Hunger wrote:

 Windir83 wrote:
how are you giving Broodlords scytals?

Any model may take scything talons...X points/model.

That being said, I do think that Genestealers are viable nowadays. The trick is threat overload, really. Ask your opponents this. Are you really going to waste your shooting on a simple 21 man unit of Tyranids that will ruin your day in close combat, or are you going to try and shoot the 90+ that are in front of them, running directly at your lines with easy chances of turn 2 assaults and just mass chaos and shooting?

As all Tyranid players should know, you have more bodies than your opponent has bullets. Use that to your advantage.

Oh, you're right, it does say model. feth yeah! Thanks man, that's one of very few deals in this damn codex, so that's a nice find.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 SHUPPET wrote:
@pinecone: There is very little truth in both the statement you made and the one you quoted. Every hundred points of Stealers out damage 100 pts of Daemonettes by 150% even just against standard GEQ. Against TEQ it's more like 250%.

There is a lot of misconceptions and uneducated opinions about Stealers. They aren't what you'd call OP, but they are our best dedicated assault infantry unit and one of the better ones in the game. Hormagants however are absolute trash.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
@roxor: Broodlords suck because they are the price of 4 more Genestealers with points to spare. They do nothing but water down your survivability which is already Stealers' Achilles, and damage output. I don't know why people still take him tbh lol, feel free to share what is so great about him

Differences between Stealers and Daemonettes are huge as they are 5pts cheaper, have way better synergy with the rest of the codex, they're faster and they can be made damn near invulnerable with the Grimoire and/or Invis. Not to mention Heralds with Greater Etherblades that can choose to challenge-assassinate whoever they wish with the right Locus...so Stealers are nowhere near as good as any Daemons dedicated assault unit. IF they had been 4-5 pts cheaper OR were given special permission to assault from reserves/after Infiltrating I'd agree that they would be decent or maybe even good.

To me the Broodlord is what makes Genestealers somewhat "appealing", it's a really good fighter for its cost (WS 7, I7, 6 attacks on the Charge with Rending, S/T 5 etc), is a great area denial, adds +1 to your Warp Pool and can effectively pin units

 SHUPPET wrote:
@pinecone: There is very little truth in both the statement you made and the one you quoted. Every hundred points of Stealers out damage 100 pts of Daemonettes by 150% even just against standard GEQ. Against TEQ it's more like 250%.

There is a lot of misconceptions and uneducated opinions about Stealers. They aren't what you'd call OP, but they are our best dedicated assault infantry unit and one of the better ones in the game. Hormagants however are absolute trash.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
@roxor: Broodlords suck because they are the price of 4 more Genestealers with points to spare. They do nothing but water down your survivability which is already Stealers' Achilles, and damage output. I don't know why people still take him tbh lol, feel free to share what is so great about him

I think we talking about differant comparisons...I said Usage, you're talking Function. They are not the same, in my mind anyway.

I look at Deamonettes and see a dedicated assault unit, with high performance. And that is what Stealers are, but due to cost, they see little to no play. That's not something that can be argued into changing. If a unit does not get taken, then in all likelyhood, something is wrong with it. IMHO it's price, they are not worth the points they cost.

A Broodlord is a simular issue, is it worth it's cost in Function...no, not really, but it's use is to get some psycher mojo going,(and tear the throat out of Chaos Champions ) and it does that just fine. And it gives a high S, and T for dealing with some targets. So...go out and buy some? No, but if you have some, use them by all means.

I guess, based on your statements, that you use big Broods of Stealers all the time. If so, how do they do? To me, its kinda like me saying that a Ferrari is over priced, get a Shelby Cobra instead. And you pointing out that the Ferrari is faster, corners better etc... Sure, all true. But the usage of a fancy sports car is to look good, and go fast. And the Shelby costs a fraction of what the ferrari does...(Both are danged expensive, it's all relative. )

Late entry: I know for myself, if they ran 11 per, I'd be taking them pretty regular. If I start taking them in preference to any other, they are under priced. Currently I don't take them, that tells me that they are over priced.

roxor08 wrote:
Well for starters, a Broodlord is everything a Warrior should've except perhaps cost. His WS will allow him to hit everything on 3+, S and T 5, yet 3 W and a 4+ save just like a Warrior. I7 ensures you are going before any other unit except banshees and will probably have the Broodlord going first in challenges. I am going to ignore BS for now because there isn't a comparison.

I think I've shown in another thread that a Broodlord can statistically weather 27 Bolter shots before perishing. That T5 is a huge deal. He can't be ID'd except against S10, which let's be honest you probably should be going after with your MCs.

With Scything talons, a Broodlord gets 6 attacks on the charge. Rending and S5 should be putting 3-4 wounds on any T4 unit. Include Toxin sacs and you're gonna get another rending attack against the same unit.

But IMO the most value from a Broodlord comes from the utility it brings outside of his stats. The synergy between SitW and The Horror against Psyker units can be very detrimental to most Psyker units. Additionally, being able to cast Dominion now, thanks to Psychic focus, adds flexibility to the unit. Gonna lose combat against a better unit? Cast Dominion, and now your fearless. You've gone to ground to claim an objective (because you're Objective Secured) to take it from your opponent but can't commit another synapse creature to bring theme back to the fight? Cast Dominion and now you are back in action.

For a relatively small investment, 134 points, to gain all of this flexibility is, IMO, extremely valuable. Couple this with a super tough list, you force the opponent to think very hard about target priority and will definitely force bad decisions. Especially with 2 Flyrants, 2 Harpies, a Crone, a couple Carnifexen, and 3 units of re spawning Gargoyles....would you target that Genestealer unit in ruins 15" from your front lines?

Again, just my opinion, and yes, 64 points is a large investment, for a single model but MAKE it worth it.

This is where the logic is bad.... Even with all the 1 point stat increases, you still lose out on durability and damage. You really can't list it as a bonus as its just a reason why Broodlords are a bad option lol.

The Horror is literally the least reliable spell in the codex. When it's relevant it will go through as often as a Warp Lance. The fact that you need to cast dominion first and for your target to be a Psyker for it to be of any real use is just the icing on top.

With the changes to the Psychic phase, not only DtW on Dominion making it easy to Deny an entire unit of Stealers for another turn having them open themselves up to another round of fire, but also happens after the move phase meaning you miss out on a critical 6". A squad of Shrikes for 100 pts matches the amount of attacks put out by a Broolord and 2 stealers for the same price, provides a far more reliable Synapse + SitW bubble that ALSO allows you to move out of afterwards if you need to GTG in the subsequent turn, is much more durable than BL + 2 Stealers, and even comes with a pinning weapon of its own. One that doesn't eat three WC, cause perils or get denied I might add. Oh and have guns, 12" movespeed and a bunch of useful upgrades

Sorry, but I'm still seeing no point to taking a Broodlord. He does nothing but water down the army. If everything he did wasn't completely and easily outclassed, his roles might make him considerable. Fortunately, as it stands other options are far stronger AND more reliable for the same price.

Broodlords suck. It's not an opinion lol. Taking him is just one of the more foolish ways to spend points.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Also, correct me if I'm wrong here but I thought toxin sacs no longer give re-rolls (more a nerf to Stealers in general but it does make the upgrade especially worse on Broodlord).

Also worth pointing out that the 5 broodlords you would take to be the helmsmen of your Stealer units is the points equivalent of 6 lictors. The lictors are going to hit ALOT harder if you really want higher strength CC attacks in volume. Better models in general. Broodlords points are just better spent elsewhere.

 SHUPPET wrote:

Spoiler:

roxor08 wrote:
Well for starters, a Broodlord is everything a Warrior should've except perhaps cost. His WS will allow him to hit everything on 3+, S and T 5, yet 3 W and a 4+ save just like a Warrior. I7 ensures you are going before any other unit except banshees and will probably have the Broodlord going first in challenges. I am going to ignore BS for now because there isn't a comparison.

I think I've shown in another thread that a Broodlord can statistically weather 27 Bolter shots before perishing. That T5 is a huge deal. He can't be ID'd except against S10, which let's be honest you probably should be going after with your MCs.

With Scything talons, a Broodlord gets 6 attacks on the charge. Rending and S5 should be putting 3-4 wounds on any T4 unit. Include Toxin sacs and you're gonna get another rending attack against the same unit.

But IMO the most value from a Broodlord comes from the utility it brings outside of his stats. The synergy between SitW and The Horror against Psyker units can be very detrimental to most Psyker units. Additionally, being able to cast Dominion now, thanks to Psychic focus, adds flexibility to the unit. Gonna lose combat against a better unit? Cast Dominion, and now your fearless. You've gone to ground to claim an objective (because you're Objective Secured) to take it from your opponent but can't commit another synapse creature to bring theme back to the fight? Cast Dominion and now you are back in action.

For a relatively small investment, 134 points, to gain all of this flexibility is, IMO, extremely valuable. Couple this with a super tough list, you force the opponent to think very hard about target priority and will definitely force bad decisions. Especially with 2 Flyrants, 2 Harpies, a Crone, a couple Carnifexen, and 3 units of re spawning Gargoyles....would you target that Genestealer unit in ruins 15" from your front lines?

Again, just my opinion, and yes, 64 points is a large investment, for a single model but MAKE it worth it.

This is where the logic is bad.... Even with all the 1 point stat increases, you still lose out on durability and damage. You really can't list it as a bonus as its just a reason why Broodlords are a bad option lol.

The Horror is literally the least reliable spell in the codex. When it's relevant it will go through as often as a Warp Lance. The fact that you need to cast dominion first and for your target to be a Psyker for it to be of any real use is just the icing on top.

With the changes to the Psychic phase, not only DtW on Dominion making it easy to Deny an entire unit of Stealers for another turn having them open themselves up to another round of fire, but also happens after the move phase meaning you miss out on a critical 6". A squad of Shrikes for 100 pts matches the amount of attacks put out by a Broolord and 2 stealers for the same price, provides a far more reliable Synapse + SitW bubble that ALSO allows you to move out of afterwards if you need to GTG in the subsequent turn, is much more durable than BL + 2 Stealers, and even comes with a pinning weapon of its own. One that doesn't eat three WC, cause perils or get denied I might add. Oh and have guns, 12" movespeed and a bunch of useful upgrades

Sorry, but I'm still seeing no point to taking a Broodlord. He does nothing but water down the army. If everything he did wasn't completely and easily outclassed, his roles might make him considerable. Fortunately, as it stands other options are far stronger AND more reliable for the same price.

Broodlords suck. It's not an opinion lol. Taking him is just one of the more foolish ways to spend points.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Also, correct me if I'm wrong here but I thought toxin sacs no longer give re-rolls (more a nerf to Stealers in general but it does make the upgrade especially worse on Broodlord).

Also worth pointing out that the 5 broodlords you would take to be the helmsmen of your Stealer units is the points equivalent of 6 lictors. The lictors are going to hit ALOT harder if you really want higher strength CC attacks in volume. Better models in general. Broodlords points are just better spent elsewhere.

I'm not sure I agree with your "logic" either. We're you referring to Shrikes going to ground in your post? They can't, ever, they're fearless due to Synapse. Yes hey bring things that the Broodlord doesn't such as SitW, but Shrikes can, and will be ID'd. Since the proliferation of high S weapons resulting from the change in the vehicle damage chart what else does a high S weapon do? Tyranids don't bring tanks so where will those weapons be pointed? Idk abou you, but if can't damage the FMCS reliably, I would be shooting at models that I'll kill the most points per shot. That firepower will go at Warriors, Zoanthrope, Shrikes, and Raveners. Especially in a tournament setting.

Your point about "watering down" the army is strange because you need to bring troops. Do you want to brig 40 point, 10 man termagant unit. It'll do literally nothing for you except die. At least a Genestealer unit with a Broodlord with be on the threat list.

I have more thoughts, but no time...I wish I could discuss this further!

roxor08 wrote:
I'm not sure I agree with your "logic" either. We're you referring to Shrikes going to ground in your post? They can't, ever, they're fearless due to Synapse. Yes hey bring things that the Broodlord doesn't such as SitW, but Shrikes can, and will be ID'd. Since the proliferation of high S weapons resulting from the change in the vehicle damage chart what else does a high S weapon do? Tyranids don't bring tanks so where will those weapons be pointed? Idk abou you, but if can't damage the FMCS reliably, I would be shooting at models that I'll kill the most points per shot. That firepower will go at Warriors, Zoanthrope, Shrikes, and Raveners. Especially in a tournament setting.

No I was saying how much better 3 Shrikes with a Cannon is at getting up a unit of Stealers from GtG instead of Synapse. It does it far more reliably, brings a more reliable pinning weapon (only just), tanks better, is more mobile, and matches the amount of CC attacks that a Broodlord + 2 Genestealers do for just about the same price. Am I saying that Shrikes are completely better than Genestealers anywhere there? They are only better in CC because you took a Broodlord (thus watering down your strength), if you had just taken 6 Genestealers instead of a Broodlord the stats would be back that way. The Shrikes do Broodlords role far better than it, the fact that they get ID'd by S8 is a bit of a moot point here, as you are taking 3 Shrikes instead of a BL and 2 stealers. The same S8 shots are acing the 2 stealers in 1 volley as well. The Brood CAN be tucked into a squad... but the trade off for not being able to shoot him is that A. His Synapse is unreliable + can cause perils + can be denied, and B. it happens AFTER the movement phase so it doesn't even do it's job properly. You are much better off with Shrikes, who CAN be killed but can also be hidden easy, can sit just below 24" behind the Stealers, avoiding all but the longest range S8 if the need be, and actually get the Stealers up off the ground reliably and properly, as well as still pinning properly with 36" range, and flapping up the board to get into combat and support afterwards. And that's if they have enough S8 to stop the Shrikes being hyper-aggressive which they also can do. The whole "well what else is the S8 being used for" doesn't work here. We are playing Tyranids, every wound taken off a Warrior is one that could have been spent taking a wound off, for example, a TL pinning BS4 Exocrine.

roxor08 wrote:
Your point about "watering down" the army is strange because you need to bring troops. Do you want to brig 40 point, 10 man termagant unit. It'll do literally nothing for you except die. At least a Genestealer unit with a Broodlord with be on the threat list.

(Stupid broken quote....)

Wow, I am beginning to think that tact isn't one of your strong suits....I responded initially to your extremist statement that "Broodlords suck" and said something to the effect of, "Yes they aren't the best thing in the world, but they aren't as good as Riptides or Wraithknights" because as Tyrnaid players we should stop expecting that well EVER get something like them. I never said that you were making this comparison. This was simply a statement.

Additionally, yes, I maybe had incorrectly inferred that your disgust with the Broodlord overflows onto Genestealers. Maybe it doesn't. But Jesus man. Get a grip. As far as I'm concerned they are probably one of the better troop choices we have.

You made a statement "Broodlords suck". I have never have thought that, and so defended them, but conceded that they cost too many points..

Fething Internet personalities needing to be so fething extreme. Sh!t doesn't have to be so black and white. On top of it all, you come off really level headed (sarcasm) when you make accusatory remarks "and the fact that your logic is so bad that you need to rely on putting words in my mouth is maybe an indicator that you need to reconsider your overall standpoint on the matter". You don't know me, you don't know my logic, and you sure as hell don't seem like the person that is willing to hear a reasonable argument that differs from your own to compromise on the issue.

I said that I don't know if I agree with your logic. Logic is in quotes because the definition is: reasoning conducted or assessed according to strict principles of validity. The principles we are talking about here are not validated in any way. These are opinions, backed up by different, circumstantial bases, that can and will end in different results.

Stop being so inflammatory.