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Hi guys,

I was just reading the Ork rumours thread, and the new Killchoppa close combat weapon caught my eye. It seems to me that the Warboss now has a viable alternative to the power klaw for close combat.

It seems to me that, with rending, +2 strength and instant death on rolls of 6 to wound, you are still going to be cracking heads, insta-killing MEQ characters and even posing a threat to vehicles.

On top of this, the Warboss is the only Ork character/unit that really stands a chance of striking first in close combat, thus saving a few of the boyz supporting him.

Any thoughts?

I'm kind of struggling to figure out what targets the killchoppa would actually be better against... monstrous creatures maybe? Put him in a small biker unit, add a biker painboy and a boss nob with a power klaw, hunt down riptides and wraithknights.

The problem as I see it is that most things which can kill a warboss on a bike outright are things which strike at Initiative 5 or better. A sergeant with a power fist wasn't going to stop you anyway, while a chapter master with lightning claws will still kill you before you hit back.

 Perfect Organism wrote:
I'm kind of struggling to figure out what targets the killchoppa would actually be better against... monstrous creatures maybe? Put him in a small biker unit, add a biker painboy and a boss nob with a power klaw, hunt down riptides and wraithknights.

The problem as I see it is that most things which can kill a warboss on a bike outright are things which strike at Initiative 5 or better. A sergeant with a power fist wasn't going to stop you anyway, while a chapter master with lightning claws will still kill you before you hit back.

I reckon the benefit of one or the other would depend greatly on the meta you play in.

You mention that a chapter master with lightning claws would strike first and kill warby before he got to strike, which is a very fair point. In my meta however, I haven't seen a space marine HQ without either a thunder hammer or power first for a very long time.

So, enabling warby to strike before the master, and instagib him on any 6 (also instant deathing on the charge) sounds like a pretty fair deal, for (IIRC) 20pts or so.


New point not related to the above discussion
I think it's important to note that it's pretty irrelevant to say "Chapter Master on bike w. eternal shield + thunder hammer will kill him", since, well, that chapter master build kills almost everything. Plus, taking a klaw or the choppa won't change anything. So for anyone reading this and feeling like you'll mention it: we all already know, there's no point in raising it as an issue.

the problem is the AP. killchoppa is AP4 I believe, and powerklaws are now either AP1 or 2. S10 AP2 is better than S7 AP4 and ID on 6's.

If it's AP3 though, count me in. I wants to ID a wraithknight! though I have found 2-3 powerklaws do make short work of them, and are better against vehicles and anything T5 or less.

taking the killchoppa and using a weirdboy to cast hammer hand would make it beastly, though. but again, it all comes down to the AP.

To be clear, I am not thinking in terms of pure killiness in 1v1 fights against enemy characters. I am thinking about using the boss in more of a support role - using his (relatively) high initiative value to get some kills in first.

Say your unit of slugga boyz charges a marine squad.

Usually, in this scenario, the boyz will win but take some casualties due to the marines striking first.

If the warboss has the killchoppa as opposed to a power klaw, he can use his (relatively) high initiative value to take some marines out first, thus sparing a few boyz.

 some bloke wrote:
the problem is the AP. killchoppa is AP4 I believe, and powerklaws are now either AP1 or 2. S10 AP2 is better than S7 AP4 and ID on 6's.

If it's AP3 though, count me in. I wants to ID a wraithknight! though I have found 2-3 powerklaws do make short work of them, and are better against vehicles and anything T5 or less.

Rending makes it AP2 on 6's.

 Krusha wrote:
To be clear, I am not thinking in terms of pure killiness in 1v1 fights against enemy characters. I am thinking about using the boss in more of a support role - using his (relatively) high initiative value to get some kills in first.

Say your unit of slugga boyz charges a marine squad.

Usually, in this scenario, the boyz will win but take some casualties due to the marines striking first.

If the warboss has the killchoppa as opposed to a power klaw, he can use his (relatively) high initiative value to take some marines out first, thus sparing a few boyz.

He's still only Initiative 4. The marines still get to strike. Doesn't save any boys.

Ah damn. I am not up to date. I thought he had higher initiative. Well, never mind then.

Hang on a minute - isn't he I5 on the charge due to furious charge?

No more Initiative bonus from Furious Charge since 2 editions

Damn!

i dont wanna make a new thread, so i'll necro this one...


i had the exact same thought a coulpe of days ago... and give it some thinking.

first off what gear does a warboss with killchoppa need?

since he will be a specialized hunter with specific targets, that will be hopping around the table i would recommend a warbike. next a attack squig could be a good addition to get those 6's...

as far as warlord traits go, the ork table sounds quite promising... rerolls are good for those 6's and even the dreaded +1 strenght would be beneficial for upping his strengh to a basic 8 (9 on the charge)


what models are worth taking out?

cleary against any models with ini5 or higher the killchoppa is kinda useless... anything you do can be done with a powerclaw more reliable (with the exeption of t6 models)

what about ini 4 models? well, i count em in as viable targets. cause if they are a thread in the first place, they will have the potential to kill a warboss. so getting to strike simutanously, is a good thing.

in general i see two major roles for a killchoppa:
1. support the unit by taking out powerfist and other high strength low ini models
2. activly hunt big targets like wrathknights, monstrous creatures and independant characters

as far as the 1st point goes... even without the rending, chances are that u'll get that many attacks through, so the enemy will fail a save anyway.

to the 2nd... this job fits a warboss on bike perfectly as he has the toughness to withstand such an assault and the number of attacks (coupled with WS 5) to get a 6 when needed. (about 50% oft he time)
on top of that, his strength is high enough to ID t4 models due to doubeling out their toughness without the need of a 6...

so is it useful?

idk... a warboss sitting on a bike is pretty durable... anything but highly specialized CC-monsters (...and the wraithknight) will have a hard time killing it in one turn, especially if supported by an dok. so this questions the value of the killchoppa... on the other hand, exactly this durability is in favor of the killchoppa, because even if the warboss were to strike last, chances are he will survive and maybe get an autokill in the process...

BUT ull loose some strenght 10 attacks... normally a warboss with powerclaw means death to any vehicle in CC... not so much with the killchoppa....


so any ideas? is it worth taking?

I think it's to expencive and unreliable , you still die to stuff that could kill you before but you losing chances to kill stuff you did reliably kill before , I like concept of a warboss with a huge choppa but not yet :( dead shiny shoota is awesome little thing for 5 points to play with , but 20 points for choppa no sry ! I wish it be something like axe of blind fury nou that be fun

Why not have the killchoppa and a power klaw on a bike. You can have the best of both worlds. Just switch off depending on what your fighting.

But than comes the question: why not dfk or dls.

 koooaei wrote:
But than comes the question: why not dfk or dls.

I think that's the real problem. Da Lukky Stikk is so powerful (arguably OP) that there is very little point taking anything else for a Warboss.

 Krusha wrote:

 koooaei wrote:
But than comes the question: why not dfk or dls.

I think that's the real problem. Da Lukky Stikk is so powerful (arguably OP) that there is very little point taking anything else for a Warboss.

It's the combination of many factors. If it's intended to be a character killer - you're still striking at ini4 which ain't that great vs real beatsticks and also run into a problem of killing eternal warriors.
Furthermore, it's not a guarantee that you'll be able roll a 6 and without a 6 it doesn't go through any real armor while the PK is plain more reliable.
It's not a fearsome vehicle-wrecker. If you could be dangerous to imperial knights with a pk - forget bout it with this axe.
No other relics.

So, it's a bit more complex than just DLS is that good! Even without DLS the killchoppa is not an even choice over a klaw. And other relics are just a final nail. Yes, instant death at ini sounds appealing. But generally not worth it.