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It's been a wee while since I've done much with Games Workshop. Being a stockist and seeing some of the fun, exciting games they pulled really soured me on Games Workshop. To a point where I packed up my minis and haven't played since 5th. But I still have all those armies, neatly packed away, waiting...
I got pretty annoyed by a lot of things. The random fluff changes to the Necrons loosing FTL travel and the C'Tan becoming slaves, the Grey Knight codex (as a long time, hard core Grey Knight player with a 5000 point Grey Knight army, supported by modified Shrine Raider and Forge World Dreadnaughts) and Draigo the Grandmaster of Mary Sues broke my heart. I know some of that's been retconned a bit (the big C'tan are now large collections of Shards that have escaped and regained most of there personality) but Matt Ward still haunts my nightmares.
And then there was the suing. I half expected to get sued for owning Games Workshop models. Suing books that mention Space Marines, suing Chapterhouse, suing people that looked at them funny...
Of course, I assume the prices are still using an inflation system that only makes sense in an economy run purely by rocket fuel.
Still, I have a hankering to gather some friends, break out a table and start a game. The Forge World Mechanicus models make me drool, and some stuff looks fun. And honestly, I miss the game a bit, even if I don't miss the company at all.
So, what have Games Workshop been like the last couple of years? Have they started acting like sane people are involved in the company? Is the 'We aim to sell a single solid gold Space Marine for 3 million each year' policy still on the way? Is Matt Ward still rubbing his nuts on any fluff he can find until it makes me want to cry?
...should I consider getting, what, 7th Edition now? Man, I missed an entire edition purely on meh-dom.
WarOne wrote: Now you get a "basic" codex and then you have to buy supplements and DLCs to improve it.
What's sad is WarOne isn't being hyperbolic when he says 'DLC'. It actually is downloadable content. You pay for downloadable PDFs that add Apocalypse style Formations to your normal army.
I haven't kept up with 40k recently, but I wouldn't be surprised if there was 'day 1 DLC' for some books.
Odd is it may seem, the codex supplements don't bother me too much. I still have my Codex: Catachan and Codex: Craftworld Eldar books lying around somewhere. Using digital content to expand army lists actually appeals to me.
Unless they're cutting basic units and characters out of the Codex to create the supplements, like BioWare cutting the nearly story vital Leviathan DLC from Mass Effect 3, which is crappy. Which I'm guessing is what GW is doing?
Jon Garrett wrote: Odd is it may seem, the codex supplements don't bother me too much. I still have my Codex: Catachan and Codex: Craftworld Eldar books lying around somewhere. Using digital content to expand army lists actually appeals to me.
Yeah... these aren't those sort of expansions. We're talking full priced hardbacks with sometimes 2-3 pages of rules, and then lots of little "Dataslate" downloads that have a formation or two a piece.
It is worth remembering that Games Workshop is still suing Chapterhouse Studios. Games Workshop took that case all the way to trial, testified that it's copyright claims were "weak" and "crazy," admitted that the lawsuit itself mitigated any potential consumer confusion, lost 70% of the claims, and is still fighting Chapterhouse Studios.
Games Workshop has not changed one iota.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/06/28 10:50:57
Kirasu: Have we fallen so far that we are excited that GW is giving us the opportunity to spend 58$ for JUST the rules? Surprised it's not "Dataslate: Assault Phase"
AlexHolker: "The power loader is a forklift. The public doesn't complain about a forklift not having frontal armour protecting the crew compartment because the only enemy it is designed to face is the OHSA violation."
AlexHolker: "Allow me to put it this way: Paramount is Skynet, reboots are termination attempts, and your childhood is John Connor."
WarOne wrote: Now you get a "basic" codex and then you have to buy supplements and DLCs to improve it.
What's sad is WarOne isn't being hyperbolic when he says 'DLC'. It actually is downloadable content. You pay for downloadable PDFs that add Apocalypse style Formations to your normal army.
I haven't kept up with 40k recently, but I wouldn't be surprised if there was 'day 1 DLC' for some books.
They just did it with the Ork Codex. They have a separate supplement either special edition orderable now and on preorder at the same time as the release of the Ork codex.
And the Looted Wagon rules in the WD Weekly were like sneak peak exclusive rules.
I'm fine with supplements and add ons, but the price is too rich for my blood and there is just way too much stuff flooding the market in one go (not just the codex release speed which is actually fine) as they are literally pushing rebundles, new models, and additional DLCs and WD Weekly down our throat.
I'll pick and choose what I want, but it's getting silly.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/06/28 10:58:35
The one thing that hasn't changed about GW is the price complaints.
To be fair, the cost of codexes doubled from 5th to 6th edition even if you ignore the add-on dataslates and mini-dexes so I think there is a reason for that.
The only thing I can't completely confirm is whether certain aspects regarding the stats and comparable value of the specific units you mention have been affected by 7th edition or not as I have decided not to buy 7th edition.
As to whether you shouldn't buy 7th, it's a good bed that based on what you've said, you probably shouldn't. However, I encourage you to play a game or two with the edition you have if you can find a couple of buddies who are willing. If you find that you really missed the game, and are willing to spend at least $180 on two new Codices and the Rulebook (assuming you can get buy without any of the sub-codifies), then maybe you should get 7th. You've already got the minis after all.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/06/28 11:16:59
If you want a laugh go to BOLS where most articles about new things is "Look at how awesome this new thing is! Go buy it now!!"
They are still a bad company. Prices are still high, quality is still low. It's even more obvious than ever before that selling models is all that matters. Players are no longer "gamers" but "hobbyists". Your army is now your "collection" and with Unbound you can field whatever you have in said "collection".
Their head of IP described Games Day, in court no less, as "a place where GW customers can participate in their favourite part of the hobby, buying things from Games Workshop."
I wish I was kidding, I really do, but it's right there worded like that in a transcript of the Chapterhouse trial. Do you need to know anything more about GW?
Oh, actually, if you do they are no longer running Games Days after the last ones were by all accounts crappy and mostly just a giant store.
Fafnir wrote: Oh, I certainly vote with my dollar, but the problem is that that is not enough. The problem with the 'vote with your dollar' response is that it doesn't take into account why we're not buying the product. I want to enjoy 40k enough to buy back in. It was my introduction to traditional games, and there was a time when I enjoyed it very much. I want to buy 40k, but Gamesworkshop is doing their very best to push me away, and simply not buying their product won't tell them that.
If you're not so attached to the GW fluff that you wouldn't consider anything else, try and give some of the other big games in your local scene a go, you can probably get up and running with them (rules + starter set) for less than the cost of the 7th Ed book.
A lot of people still enjoy playing 40k, but if GWs shenanigans turned you off in the past, they're worse now. They've really ramped up the reduction in value with halving the models in some boxes without reducing the price, $37 for single plastic models, rules being cut out from codices to sell to you piecemeal and so on. They are extremely anti-customer lately, with the only positive move I can credit them for really being the introduction of large bundles like the SM Strike Force which has a 30% discount\ built in, resulting in for example $24 for 10 tactical marines. They have some good products still of course but their actions... yes they have changed - for the worse.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/06/28 15:06:44
WarOne wrote: Now you get a "basic" codex and then you have to buy supplements and DLCs to improve it.
What's sad is WarOne isn't being hyperbolic when he says 'DLC'. It actually is downloadable content. You pay for downloadable PDFs that add Apocalypse style Formations to your normal army.
I haven't kept up with 40k recently, but I wouldn't be surprised if there was 'day 1 DLC' for some books.
Actually we're even getting pre-release DLC, with the rules for the Looted Battlewagon being released in White Dwarf before the Codex itself as I understand it.
I do consider Warmachine and Hordes from tie to time, but the lack of local players and my fondness for the (pre-Ward) 40k and Fantasy makes it awkward. Which doesn't mean too much - unlike when I played 40k I have actual cash these days, and could probably simply start off buying a couple of small armies and tricking friends into it.
Gotta admit, I'm not surprised GW hasn't changed much. Sorta hoped, since they still haven't sued The Lord Inquisitor (but then, they waited until the last moment to screw over Damnatus...) but it's not a shock. It would be nice to think that GW could remember that creating customer loyalty through good customer service meant people kept buying things, but hey, I'm sure they're fine with the probably four figure sum I would have spent going to other things instead.
No, the CHS case has reached a verdict, and, by almost any measure, GW lost, and handily.
But there are appeals to be worked through. The fact that yet another legal firm, with one of the best reputations for IP-related law, has come in, for free, to help Chapterhouse with the appeal does not bode well for GW.
The Lord Inquisitor seems to have tacit approval, Aaron Dembski Bowden is even on board as some sort of writer/script editor, and he's hitherto been an exclusively BL author.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/06/28 19:00:30
We find comfort among those who agree with us - growth among those who don't. - Frank Howard Clark
The wise man doubts often, and changes his mind; the fool is obstinate, and doubts not; he knows all things but his own ignorance.
The correct statement of individual rights is that everyone has the right to an opinion, but crucially, that opinion can be roundly ignored and even made fun of, particularly if it is demonstrably nonsense!” Professor Brian Cox
Well, to be fair, a discussion of their financial situation and their future isn't exactly the same as how they are as a company to deal with. They are connected, but not exactly the same topic.
Balance in pick up games? Two people, each with their own goals for the game, design half a board game on their own without knowing the layout of the board and hope it all works out. Good luck with that. The faster you can find like minded individuals who want the same things from the game as you, the better.
get your models, and your old rules and play some fifth edition.
Or as other have suggested try out games like Warmachine and Hordes, that is both cheaper to get in to and has a tighter rule set.
See I enjoyed 6th edition with the 5th edition and the first couple of 6th edition books. It was when they started doing the usual GW thing and getting mid edition cray cray and went overboard with the DLC that 6th edition bit the dust.
If you need a dose of grimdark without feeling GWs clammy hands touching you directly, try Forge World's 30k Horus Heresy stuff. Prices are comparable to GW but the quality is well above GW (with some minor exceptions).
I wonder if GW cares enough to look at these forums and actually start to wonder "Wow, if people want to play 5th and 6th, should we also release a Legacy Edition and milk this too?"
From the chapterhouse case we know they are aware of us here on dakka, but we also know they do no market research so no, they wouldn't get ideas from here.
Fafnir wrote: Oh, I certainly vote with my dollar, but the problem is that that is not enough. The problem with the 'vote with your dollar' response is that it doesn't take into account why we're not buying the product. I want to enjoy 40k enough to buy back in. It was my introduction to traditional games, and there was a time when I enjoyed it very much. I want to buy 40k, but Gamesworkshop is doing their very best to push me away, and simply not buying their product won't tell them that.
If you want a breakdown that's going to catch you up quickly, I suggest you gird your loins and go headfirst into this 14 part saga about the current state of GW. I am providing you to the link of Part 14 as it has the links at the bottom for all parts, which makes navigation easier. The gentleman who writes it is extremely qualified to do so and has won awards for this narrative he's forged.
The TL; DR: You're probably looking at the next TSR. The next financial report drops in about two weeks or so and the prospects are on a spectrum of grim to tepid, at best.
I strongly suggest you invest minimally if you get back into it.
Oh, my favorite part is the man behind the Creature Caster Kickstarter, someone well versed the manufacturing and distribution of minis from his UltraForge days, calling GW's plastic kits highway robbery. With little hyperbole implied. I would suggest you take this as the perfect example of the "New & Improved" Games Workshop:
Spoiler:
Box of Dire Avengers, Pre-2013 Eldar Codex Release, $33~ USD
Box of Dire Avengers, Post-2013 Eldar Codex Release, $35 USD
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/07/02 02:41:37
