Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

This is just a wild idea I was throwing around. Designed as a way to help gamers put in 'sensible' restrictions for what sort of game they want to play. Rather than restrict by points, this axis is intended to restrict on the power of units.

I'd love to hear opinions and thoughts.

Battle Tiers

Tier 1 - Skirmish
​In this sort of fight, small groups of infantry are battling against one another. Heavy support and heroic characters are generally unavailable. These sort of games are good for low point games.
- No vehicles
- No Monstrous Creatures
- No Lords of War
- Independent Characters Limited to 100 points or Less
- Limited to Str 6 Weapons or less
- Limited to Psychic Mastery Level 1

Tier 2 – Engaged
​In this sort of fight, heavier weapons and vehicles start to appear. Individual troops become less important as bigger and more powerful weapons appear on the battlefield.
- No Lords of War
- Vehicles limited to AV 12 or less
- Independent Characters Limited to 150 points or Less
- Limited to Str 8 Weapons or less
- Limited to Psychic Mastery Level 2


Tier 3 – Eternal War
​At this level almost anything goes. Common infantry weapons become near worthless as tank and army destroying weapons become common on the battlefield.
- No Lords of War

Tier 4 – Apocalypse
​In these scenarios, the whole world has gone to war. Every force imaginable has been brought into the battle. Common infantry are like ants amid the massive machines of war these sort of fights encompass.
- No Limitations.



Automatically Appended Next Post:
Just to clarify, an example use of the above would be:

"Let's play a 900 point battle-forged skirmish game"

You'd then have 900 points to build your army, requiring one HQ and 2 troop selections with the skirmish tier 1 restrictions.

I don't really see a lot of purpose in this. It needlessly punishes some armies and does nothing to other armies.

For example, Tier 1 makes it so that most armies have only one HQ option, if that. And certainly no ability to upgrade. Also, it forces armies like, say, tyranids, into a single playstyle. Why?

Google around for the old "40k in 40 minutes" rules, it was something like this.

Yes, skirmish does tend to limit armies to one (basic) HQ unit, but you can do some minor upgrades. It is also meant to affect playstyle somewhat.

Skirmish is for infantry-only games. Its purpose is to remove vehicles and heavy weapon carriers, making into more of a man-to-man combat. Possible good for people just starting the game or wanting to run something akin to kill teams. A skirmish level game will probably see lots of uses of "troops" and elites will most likely be the kings of the battlefield.

Not every tier will appeal to everyone, and I think that's fine. The main idea is to be able to customize what units are brought to the game. Want a footslogger's battle? run a skirmish game. Want to run a primarily infantry battle but allow for fast-moving transports, bikes and the like? Run an Engaged battle. Expecting tanks or want to run a "standard" 40K game? Use the eternal war game.

I sorta feel like points limits already do this. You can spend all of your points on one model in a 1000 point battle, but it's probably not a good plan.

These limits would enormously help some armies, hinder others, and throw balance out the window. Space Marines would own in the skirmish size, and AP3 and AP2 weapons are pretty much out the window with S6. IG and Tyranids would do awfully as Nids couldn't field synapse HQ, IG couldn't even field auto cannons or chimeras, no sentinels...yet SM could field terminators.

teir 1

HQ liby 100

Elits
3 sanguinary priests with jump packs
3 sanguinary priests with jump packs
Sanguinary guard

Troops
30x death comapny with jump packs and power weapons
10x assult squad with 2xflamer
10x assult squad with 2xflamer
10x assult squad with 2xflamer
10x assult squad with 2xflamer
10x assult squad with 2xflamer

heavy support
10x de squad 4x heavy bolters
10x de squad 4x heavy bolters
10x de squad 4x heavy bolters

good luck with that 30 man s5 a5 12" moving feeling no pain unit coming at your face

 TheSilo wrote:
I sorta feel like points limits already do this. You can spend all of your points on one model in a 1000 point battle, but it's probably not a good plan.

These limits would enormously help some armies, hinder others, and throw balance out the window. Space Marines would own in the skirmish size, and AP3 and AP2 weapons are pretty much out the window with S6. IG and Tyranids would do awfully as Nids couldn't field synapse HQ, IG couldn't even field auto cannons or chimeras, no sentinels...yet SM could field terminators.

Nids could use a tyranid prime (tyranid warrior HQ). I don't think you could field terminators in skirmish because a powerfist is Str 8.

Guard would still have mortars, heavy bolters and missile launchers (with frag only) for taking out troops. They might not be able to field chimeras or sentinels, but they wouldn't have to face rhinos or dreanoughts either (or wave serpents, or riptides ...) . They could, however, field rough riders for speed.

SM would be tough nuts to crack in skirmish due to the lack of many AP 3/2 weapons (there's some, like the hotshot lasgun), but hopefully the difference in numbers (10 basic tac marines @ 140 pts vs. ~20 imperial guard w/ 2 heavy bolters @ 120 pts or vs. 28 basic termagants @ 140 pts.) will help to balance things out.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

ChapertMasterRagnaValick wrote:
teir 1

HQ liby 100

Elits
3 sanguinary priests with jump packs
3 sanguinary priests with jump packs
Sanguinary guard

Troops
30x death comapny with jump packs and power weapons
10x assult squad with 2xflamer
10x assult squad with 2xflamer
10x assult squad with 2xflamer
10x assult squad with 2xflamer
10x assult squad with 2xflamer

heavy support
10x de squad 4x heavy bolters
10x de squad 4x heavy bolters
10x de squad 4x heavy bolters

good luck with that 30 man s5 a5 12" moving feeling no pain unit coming at your face

That's a damn chapter in of itself. How many point game are you talking here?


Automatically Appended Next Post:
let me ask another way - with that marine army, what would other armies (necron, tyranid, eldar, etc) bring to face that (at the same point level)?

Tier 1: Kill Team covers this pretty well already.

Tier 2: This in no way makes low point games more balanced.

I came up with my own solution that for low point games.

Games below 1000 points must use a Contingent Force Organisation Chart. Contingents may not take Allies.


Tier 3: I like this, although in no way is it original. GW shouldn't have added Lords of War in the First Place in my opinion.

Tier 4: Apocalypse, there done.

I think we can make this much more simple...

Kill Team

Restricted 40k: As BRB with No Super Heavy Vehicles or Gargantuan Creatures. Limited to 2 Detachments. Self Allying allowed. Formations count against number of Detachments.

Unrestricted: As BRB. Limited LoW list as BAO.

Apocalypse: Completely unrestricted. Full gambit of Apocalypse units, etc.


I think banning LoW is out as we are going to see some Special Characters like Ghazgul in the LoW slot. What needs to be restricted instead is SHs and GCs. I would like to see Tournaments be Restricted and that be the general rule for "average" games of 40k, with people making special exceptions when they are bringing out the Big guns etc. The arbitrary points, Strength, and AV restrictions reward certain armies and punish other as some just have better access to choices that follow those restrictions. I understand your goal, but your proposed restrictions just don't cut it and are too arbitrary. What happens when someone rolls Vortex or any of the other nasty Psychic Powers in Skirmish? Etc.