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So do you need to pay for the Shoota on the rokkit Boyz and the nob? It's only the difference of 4 points, but curious if the mob is 245 or 241 ( nob has big choppa, Shoota and boss pole)

Maybe. If you take the list to be the order you buy upgrades, then yes, as you would upgrade the boyz to be shoota boyz, and then buy the rokkit launchas.

If not, then they do not have sluggas to swap out for shootas.

That said, GW is somewhat inconsistent with their rulings on this.

Agree. Most opponents agreed with me that you don't have to pay for a swap your aren't making when I explained the issue to them.

The entry reads: 'The entire mob may replace their sluggas with shootas', it doesn't say 'any model may replace...' so if you want any of them to have shootas you have to pay for all of them to have one. Then you may swap that ranged weapon for a big shoota/rokkit launcha.

Even if you don't take the order the upgrades are written in as the order to follow you would have a problem. You could swap a slugga for a big shoota and then buy shootas for the squad but as you have to buy the WHOLE unit (not ANY model) a shoota you would not be able to, as the boyz with a special weapon don't have a slugga to swap for a shoota.

Basically, yes I believe you have to pay for the shootas and then the big shoota/rokkit launcha as well.

I agree with Duke.
First you upgrade the boyz from slugga to shoota at +1 pt per model, after this you apply the next upgrades either the Boss Nob or big shoota/rokkit

If they don't have sluggas then wouldn't that mean they are not required to replace? The upgrade specifies only those with sluggas have to upgrade.

 TheCustomLime wrote:
If they don't have sluggas then wouldn't that mean they are not required to replace? The upgrade specifies only those with sluggas have to upgrade.

True, but the upgrade is for the entire mob and you pay 1 point per model.
Not 1 point per model that receives the upgrade.

That's how I read it.

Depends on order of operation.

the two important things are:

The entire mob may replace their sluggas with shootas…1 pt/model

and

For every ten models in the unit, one Ork Boy may replace their ranged weapon with one of
the following:

so it comes down to, are you allowed to replace your slugga before you upgrade the sluggas in the unit to shootas.

Or do you have to upgrade all the sluggas in a unit to shootas, then replace to rokkit/big shoota.

since it says for every ten model sin the unit one ork boy may replace their ranged weapon with one of the following, we know its not required that its the shoota that is replace. since slugga boys can also upgrade a boy to a heavy weapon.

if we look at:

11. Options: This section lists all of the upgrades you may add to the unit if you wish to do
so, alongside the associated points cost for each. Where an option states that you may
exchange one weapon ‘and/or’ another, you may replace either or both, provided you pay the
points cost for each. The abbreviation ‘pts’ stands for ‘points’ and ‘pts/model’ stands for
‘points per model’. Where applicable, this section also refers to any Transports the unit may
take. These have their own datasheets. Dedicated Transports do not use up any slots on a
Force Organisation Chart, but otherwise function as separate units. The Detachments
section of Warhammer 40,000: The Rules explains how Dedicated Transports work.

we see there is no requirement in regards to what order we choose to follow the list of upgrades.

so Yes you may replace sluggas with heavy weapons and they upgrade the remaining sluggas to shootas, as it currently stands RAW.

You must upgrade to shootas first.

The reason is that the entire mob must have the sluggas still to exchange for shootas when you purchase that upgrade. If you swap to a rokkit first, that model doesn't have a slugga to exchange, which is required for the mob to exchange for shootas.

Back in the old codex* it was faqed that models didnt have to pay for an upgrade they wouldnt use, like the shoota special weapon thing.
I presume the new faq will rule it that way too.
Therefore I say "no, youdont need to pay for a shoota you dont have"


*that was the faq ruling on the 4th ed codex. the faq ruling in the 3rd ed codex was that the flashgitz had to pay for gun upgrades on their shootas even if they exchanged them for special weapons.

Dracos knows.

 Dracos wrote:
You must upgrade to shootas first.

The reason is that the entire mob must have the sluggas still to exchange for shootas when you purchase that upgrade. If you swap to a rokkit first, that model doesn't have a slugga to exchange, which is required for the mob to exchange for shootas.

It doesn't say that. It says that the entire mob may replace their sluggas with shootas. If they don't have a slugga then they don't have to replace it. It doesn't say that every model has to do it. It just says to get rid of the sluggas and replace them with shootas.

 TheCustomLime wrote:

 Dracos wrote:
You must upgrade to shootas first.

The reason is that the entire mob must have the sluggas still to exchange for shootas when you purchase that upgrade. If you swap to a rokkit first, that model doesn't have a slugga to exchange, which is required for the mob to exchange for shootas.

It doesn't say that. It says that the entire mob may replace their sluggas with shootas. If they don't have a slugga then they don't have to replace it. It doesn't say that every model has to do it. It just says to get rid of the sluggas and replace them with shootas.

It also says that it costs 1 pt/model (for "the entire mob") to do so, not 1 pt/model that benefits from this exchange.

The devil lies in the details. If the rule states that they can replace their sluggas with shootas with no stipulation that they have to perform this upgrade first and some boys have no sluggas to trade in then I would imagine that they don't have to pay since they aren't upgrading. I don't know the exact wording of the option entry so I can't say for sure if my reading of the entry is correct but I am sure that they wouldn't make players pay for upgrades they aren't taking.

The interesting thing is that Gee Dubs has had Codices with a "Order of Operations" so to speak when it comes to upgrades. The 5e Guard Codex only allowed upgrades to be taken in a certain order when it came to their infantry squads. Why they didn't have that here is beyond me given the myriad of upgrades Orks can take.

At least my Codex points out that certain Models might not be able to take Options, and are therefore are not included when calculating these costs.

Please give pg# Jinx

whichever order you take the rules in, the result is the same.

a mob of 30 boys has 30 models.

so you either replace every slugga in the unit with a shoota for and pay 1 point per model for 30 points, then upgrade to heavy weapons, or you first upgrade to heavy weapons, then upgrade all remaining sluggas to shootas, and pay 1 point per model (not per model with a slugga), for 30 points.

Not sure if the nob can take a killsaw and powerklaw, or replace his slugga with something, but you'd still pay for him even if he doesn't get a shoota.

Pay for the shoota. Keep point costs even!

One thing I hate is putting a Warboss in 'Eavy armor and not having the final costs divisible by 5.

SkrawnyNob,
Sorry I was not more detailed in my comment, as I am a Tau player and that was the Codex I was referencing.
Tau have access to a few Models which can not purchase options with the rest of their Unit, and contains instructions not to include them in the Points/Model calculations.