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http://daemons40k.blogspot.com/2014/07/battle-report-yet-another-duel-with.html

These games are really hard to finish in a 2:45 time limit with 1850 points, lemme tell you whut. I haven't managed it yet!

Good stuff

Were you using Inq Coteaz btw? As far as I'm aware GK Coteaz cant roll on the Biomancy table.

Great game! Just getting the right psychic powers can be game-changing. Had Draigo not get Precognition, who knew how it would have turned out. But despite that, you would've won had the game not gone onto T7. That really highlights one of GK's biggest weaknesses - their relative lack of mobility (at least when compared to the faster armies like daemons, necrons and eldar).

I am also running a triple-grinder list, although I am thinking about changing up my core (Be'lakor, Fateweaver and LoC). My new Daemons list may look something like this:


Be'lakor
Fateweaver
2x Slaanesh Heralds (1 with the Grimoire)

4 units of Nurgling troops (or 3 nurglings and 1 cultists depending if self-allying is possible)

Seekers

3x Soulgrinders (same config as yours)

 WrentheFaceless wrote:
Good stuff

Were you using Inq Coteaz btw? As far as I'm aware GK Coteaz cant roll on the Biomancy table.

I think it was a GK Coteaz, but his powers had essentially no impact on the game. I was happy he didn't roll Divination. There's no reason it couldn't have been Inquisition Coteaz.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 jy2 wrote:
Great game! Just getting the right psychic powers can be game-changing. Had Draigo not get Precognition, who knew how it would have turned out. But despite that, you would've won had the game not gone onto T7. That really highlights one of GK's biggest weaknesses - their relative lack of mobility (at least when compared to the faster armies like daemons, necrons and eldar).

I am also running a triple-grinder list, although I am thinking about changing up my core (Be'lakor, Fateweaver and LoC). My new Daemons list may look something like this:


Be'lakor
Fateweaver
2x Slaanesh Heralds (1 with the Grimoire)

4 units of Nurgling troops (or 3 nurglings and 1 cultists depending if self-allying is possible)

Seekers

3x Soulgrinders (same config as yours)

I ran something not all that different against Allan a few matches ago and got crushed. You will find yourself short on offense. Psyker-light Daemons is vastly better in my experience.

Yea, perhaps having Coteaz roll on Sanctic trying to get Gate may have helped the mobility issues, but then they couldnt assault

But yea Lack of mobility hurts GKs bad

My list isn't so much psychic-spam as it is Invisibility-spam. Invisibility is such a game-changing power. Imagine the seeker-star, invisible and with 3++ also.

Thanks for nice battle report.

Speed is a issue. When playing games with scoring each turns, i have allied in some White scar objective secured bikes. They have worked great. Or you could ally in Tigurius or get the GK libby master level 3 (instead of Draigo) for fishing for gate.

Interceptors are fast of course, but they thend to die really fast.

 jy2 wrote:
My list isn't so much psychic-spam as it is Invisibility-spam. Invisibility is such a game-changing power. Imagine the seeker-star, invisible and with 3++ also.

I imagine I'll charge it with a Soul Grinder!


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Tyfus wrote:
Thanks for nice battle report.

Speed is a issue. When playing games with scoring each turns, i have allied in some White scar objective secured bikes. They have worked great. Or you could ally in Tigurius or get the GK libby master level 3 (instead of Draigo) for fishing for gate.

Interceptors are fast of course, but they thend to die really fast.

Blackmoor is a multi-GT finalist, so he knows what he's doing. His actual list will have Eldar allies, but he's playing with the models he has here in Arizona.

Interesting report. I've found the same problem in a lot of my games: completed within a time limit. Without taking a LoW, my model count is also fairly high (Eldar) and with the changes to shooting and psychics, I've had a lot of difficulty finishing a game in under 3 hours. I'll be very curious with how the BAO fares.

All in all, it was a good read. Thanks for sharing.

 jy2 wrote:
My list isn't so much psychic-spam as it is Invisibility-spam.

Invis = psychic power, spamming it = psychic spam lol


IMHO no GT should be at 1850 with a 2:45 time limit. It's idiotic how few games will reach T5 let alone a natural conclusion. I honestly think 1500 is the sweet spot now.

 Red Corsair wrote:

 jy2 wrote:
My list isn't so much psychic-spam as it is Invisibility-spam.

Invis = psychic power, spamming it = psychic spam lol


IMHO no GT should be at 1850 with a 2:45 time limit. It's idiotic how few games will reach T5 let alone a natural conclusion. I honestly think 1500 is the sweet spot now.

Hopefully they'll be keeping a close eye on and cracking down hard on Slow Play

slaede wrote:His actual list will have Eldar allies, but he's playing with the models he has here in Arizona.

Sounds interesting. Are we talking jetbikes/waveserpents for fast objective secured ? Or is he going to use GK henchmenspam as warp batteries for a eldar farseer to summon demons ?

Very exciting report ! Hilarious to see daemons finally get a taste of their own medicine !!

 WrentheFaceless wrote:

 Red Corsair wrote:

 jy2 wrote:
My list isn't so much psychic-spam as it is Invisibility-spam.

Invis = psychic power, spamming it = psychic spam lol


IMHO no GT should be at 1850 with a 2:45 time limit. It's idiotic how few games will reach T5 let alone a natural conclusion. I honestly think 1500 is the sweet spot now.

Hopefully they'll be keeping a close eye on and cracking down hard on Slow Play

While I would love for that to be possible you know deep down it isn't. By the time judges get around to games with slow play rearing its head the impact is usually had. One 30 minute turn early on and the game isn't going to finish on time. The events are getting too large to police all of it as well, but mainly it is because in most cases it's innocent and unavoidable. Lists have SO much book keeping these days with all the random tables that it is not intentional alot of the time. With 1850 it's crazy how slow initial set up and first turns turn out being, especially when your playing someone you met at the table. Sure against my brother who I've played the last 20 years I can get to turn 5 in around three hours, now try it against a player you just met.

I mean even the BAO missions force more thoughtful play, even more so with random objectives altering your game plan each turn. Expect the average game to be 3-4 turns. this is what makes scoring objectives second so broken IMO.

Actually it would be a worthy endeavor for front-line gaming to have each game turn in its Turn cap with its score sheet. It would help figure out how long the average turn took.

It is worth noting that BAO went with what the voters picked. I myself voted for 1850. But we did so in ignorance. I think 1650-1700 is probably the cap for a typical time limit at a GT.

The fact is, I'm getting pretty used to the new rules and I still can't finish a game quickly. Plus you have to stop every turn and roll your secondaries, and record them, then record what you got at the end of every turn.

2:45 at 1850 points sounds optimistic. At ETC this year it's 4 1/2 hours for each game of 1850 points. 2 games each day for 3 days.

 WrentheFaceless wrote:
Yea, perhaps having Coteaz roll on Sanctic trying to get Gate may have helped the mobility issues, but then they couldnt assault

But yea Lack of mobility hurts GKs bad

You think my army is slow?

Tyfus wrote:
Thanks for nice battle report.

Speed is a issue. When playing games with scoring each turns, i have allied in some White scar objective secured bikes. They have worked great. Or you could ally in Tigurius or get the GK libby master level 3 (instead of Draigo) for fishing for gate.

Interceptors are fast of course, but they thend to die really fast.

I like the Interceptors, but the rest of the army is slow and does not compliment them. That is why I am reducing the amount of other Grey Knights because they are so slow and I am looking at Bike Marines and Eldar as allies so they can keep up.

 WrentheFaceless wrote:


Hopefully they'll be keeping a close eye on and cracking down hard on Slow Play

It is not really "slow play" (intentional stalling), it is just that we have a new edition and it just takes a little longer to play. The book keeping, and the amount of missions is labor intensive. As a side note, my army is pretty small and normally does not take long to play, but we are still struggling to play a quick game.

Tyfus wrote:

slaede wrote:His actual list will have Eldar allies, but he's playing with the models he has here in Arizona.

Sounds interesting. Are we talking jetbikes/waveserpents for fast objective secured ? Or is he going to use GK henchmenspam as warp batteries for a eldar farseer to summon demons ?

3 Dreadknights and a Wraithknight!

 Blackmoor wrote:

 WrentheFaceless wrote:
Yea, perhaps having Coteaz roll on Sanctic trying to get Gate may have helped the mobility issues, but then they couldnt assault

But yea Lack of mobility hurts GKs bad

You think my army is slow?

Well like someone else mentioned, other than interceptors its pretty slow. Which is GK for you haha

 Blackmoor wrote:

 WrentheFaceless wrote:


Hopefully they'll be keeping a close eye on and cracking down hard on Slow Play

It is not really "slow play" (intentional stalling), it is just that we have a new edition and it just takes a little longer to play. The book keeping, and the amount of missions is labor intensive. As a side note, my army is pretty small and normally does not take long to play, but we are still struggling to play a quick game.

Oh yea your game seemed fine, was just commenting on BAO in general

slaede wrote:

 jy2 wrote:
My list isn't so much psychic-spam as it is Invisibility-spam. Invisibility is such a game-changing power. Imagine the seeker-star, invisible and with 3++ also.

I imagine I'll charge it with a Soul Grinder!

The list that I am thinking of isn't perfect. Without Hit-&-Run, walkers can neutralize it by tying it up. However, it is all about positioning. Most likely enemy walkers will have to deal with my (possibly Invisible) walkers and/or Be'lakor before they get a chance to tie up the seekerstar.

 Red Corsair wrote:

 jy2 wrote:
My list isn't so much psychic-spam as it is Invisibility-spam.

Invis = psychic power, spamming it = psychic spam lol


IMHO no GT should be at 1850 with a 2:45 time limit. It's idiotic how few games will reach T5 let alone a natural conclusion. I honestly think 1500 is the sweet spot now.

No, I don't consider it to be psyker-spam unless I add another Herald and run pink horror troops.

Yeah, a lot of games aren't going to finish in time.

 WrentheFaceless wrote:

 Red Corsair wrote:

 jy2 wrote:
My list isn't so much psychic-spam as it is Invisibility-spam.

Invis = psychic power, spamming it = psychic spam lol


IMHO no GT should be at 1850 with a 2:45 time limit. It's idiotic how few games will reach T5 let alone a natural conclusion. I honestly think 1500 is the sweet spot now.

Hopefully they'll be keeping a close eye on and cracking down hard on Slow Play

It's not so much intentional slow-playing (although that could occur as well) as it is the game just takes longer to play nowadays. You've got an entirely new phase - the Psychic phase - as well as a lot more bookkeeping and strategizing to do due to the new Maelstrom missions. And then you've got everything else along with the unfamiliarity with the rules that always come with a new edition.

 Red Corsair wrote:

Actually it would be a worthy endeavor for front-line gaming to have each game turn in its Turn cap with its score sheet. It would help figure out how long the average turn took.

That is actually a very good idea. I'll bring it up to Reece the next time I see him.

 Blackmoor wrote:

3 Dreadknights and a Wraithknight!

You mean like this?


2000-pts Jy2's NEW MTO Greyzilla Army vs GTKA666's I.A.C. System Eldar

Nice report! See you all at the BAO!