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Does anyone else have issues when trying to sculpt tiny things onto models?



I keep having problems with the entire piece coming free of the model when I'm trying to smooth the transitions or finish shaping. Only partial solution I've found atm was to superglue the starting blob onto the model and work from there.

Try adding more yellow to the mix to make it more sticky and make sure it isn't over lubricated. I've had Green Stuff slip and slide all over the place as if it were bathed in oil and it is very frustrating.

You could also try roughing up the plastic (in the case of the example you show) with a file or even notching it slightly with a blade to help key the surface and give the Green Stuff something to grip to.

A lot of people do the exact same thing - dab a little CA glue onto the starting blob to anchor it in place - so that part of your method isn't faulty. What are you using to sculpt, in terms of tools and lubrication? Gogsnik is right, in that your sculpting lubricant may be impeding adhesion. It's not just a matter of how much you use, though, but when you use it. Getting good adhesion around the entire base's edge before you start lubing up to refine the shape, add details, and smooth things out will keep your lube from creeping under the edges and impeding the bond. Once the GS is secure, you can dunk the whole model in Vaseline and it would do a thing to the join.

Agreed with both. I always rough or score the surface I'm trying to sculpt on, and I'm careful with lubrication when I stick the putty on. I normally use water, but too much water dripping off a soaked tool can wick right round to the other side of the lump of putty, and mess up your attempts to stick. I normally use a piece of damp blister sponge to get the tool moist, but not drenched.

Also, how are you sculpting? Lots of little light movements, or a lot of heavy pushing and dragging?

I'm using the new set of GW scuplting tools. The work in the pic was done with just the small end of their plastic tool (which is a very nice and versatile tool, IMHO).

I tend towards many light strokes, and I was getting the worst fall-off when trying to form that join against the model itself.

I've got some more pics in the gallery of other attempts.

Get yourself some small clay shapers. They are rubber ended tools used for smoothing down Kneadatite.

Another possibility could be a demoulding agent on the plastic. A quick wash with warm soapy water should remove that.

 Todosi wrote:
Get yourself some small clay shapers. They are rubber ended tools used for smoothing down Kneadatite.

I actually asked because I thought the OP might be using these, which I would recommend against, in this very specific case. Don't get me wrong, I think clay/color shapers are absolutely awesome GS sculpting tools - I use them for probably 80-90% of my putty work. What they don't do particularly well, though, is apply serious pressure. No matter how many passes I make over a GS-model seam, there is always a hairline step. For a solid join and seamless edge, I always revert back to metal tools. Firm pressure and a little scraping action at the end of the putty makes an invisible seam that no lubricant can creep under. I then clean up with the silicone tools afterward, if necessary, and move on to subsequent smoothing and shaping as usual.

There are a few things that might help you. Some of the more important ones are already mentioned. (Change the GS mixture, rubber tipped tools, lube your tools, ...)

Lubrication is importan so I'll mention it again. When you use water be very carefull to not use too much. Water (or your lube in general) might get between the model and the GS. For me this was the biggest struggle. I used a cloth to wipe most but not all of the water off my tools. But the best results I had was simply licking my tools. Saliva doesn't run as easily as water and it helped me quite a lot. (Just don't forget to clean your tools. )

Another factor can be your hands itself. If your hands are sweaty, you'll massasge the skin oil into the GS while mixing. This can reduce stickyness. Just wash your hands from time to time if you notice sweaty hands. (Can happen quite fast if you work directly underneath a desk lamp like I do.)

If GS is a bit cold it isn't only harder to mix but will also sticks less. You should already noticing to cold GS during mixing as it is tougher. It's the same as when GS has hardened for a bit. Especially if you mixed too much, the last bit of it might already be too hard to do finer work with.

If you can't avoid loss of stickyness (for whatever reason) you need to keep attention to the corners. If you pull the GS onto the surface, creating a larger area first helps. You can scrap the possible excess away with a wet knife after the basic shape sticks properly. This attention to the corners additionally helps to create a smoother transition between model and GS.

 LoH wrote:
I'm using the new set of GW scuplting tools. The work in the pic was done with just the small end of their plastic tool (which is a very nice and versatile tool, IMHO).

The plastic tool is probably the best out of the set because it has an actual edge, although I'd echo Oadie in that it might have a little too much give for pushing rapidly-congealing greenstuff, and the edge is a little too straight and square-cornered. (I have clay shapers meself, and like them, but mostly for the final polish on the surface once the metal tools are done.)

I was quite interested in the new GW sculpting tools, mostly due to the change in shape of one to something like a 'wax #5'; but I checked them out when they arrived in the local GW and was disappointed. They're an improvement in quality over the last tool because they have smooth edges, but the problem as I say, is they're still great, thick, chunky edges. Not a whole lot of good for exactly your problem: sculpting tiny things on 28mm models. Sometimes I wonder if they're like GW's version of safety scissors - can't let kids get injured on pointy ends or halfway-beveled edges - but then they sell clippers and hobby knives right alongside them. Baffling.
The great thing is you can buy dental quality sculpting tools, aka dental wax carvers, for less than the price of GW's metal tools. At least here in Britain you can easily find them on ebay or some webshops for £2-4, provided you know what you're looking for. In dental circles the 'wax #5' tool is more commonly known as a Zahle. The shape GW used for their last two tool versions is a Lecron. IIRC Ed at Troll Forged uses a Beale, and Andy at Heresy Miniatures uses a Vehe.

I used to use a Vehe from one of those cheap wax carver sets, for most of my sculpting, but eventually the edges on that weren't quite to taste. Which gives two reasons why I don't personally recommend the '12 carvers for pennies!' sets. They can useful to see which particular shape you get a feel for, but by that token you'll likely only use one or two of them before too long, and if you're gonna do that, you might as well use the same amount of dosh for top products. The most useful types, IMO, follow the general theme of those four examples: a wide, flat blade with a bit of a point, and a small, rounded end to act as a miniature 'fingertip'. (A wee bit of inversion with the Beale, obviously.)

I tend towards many light strokes, and I was getting the worst fall-off when trying to form that join against the model itself.

Ironically the point that you want to push hardest, although still, too much pressure then can cause the putty to stick to your finger or tool more than to the model. So yeah, all the suggestions for fixing the plastic surface.

Thanks for the advice, everyone.

I've got a few more models to try on later, I'll see what I can do.

I have a rubber shaper (labeled as a paint eraser) as well, but I haven't used it in a while and it needs cleaning.

The paint eraser is different than what I am talking about. For one thing, nothing sticks to clay shapers, so you should never need to "clean" them. Clay shapers are silicon tip tools used for smoothing putty and clay.

 Todosi wrote:
For one thing, nothing sticks to clay shapers, so you should never need to "clean" them.

You've never tried sculpting polymer clay with them, then?

Ah, fair enough then!

 Todosi wrote:
The paint eraser is different than what I am talking about. For one thing, nothing sticks to clay shapers, so you should never need to "clean" them. Clay shapers are silicon tip tools used for smoothing putty and clay.

What's stuck to it is dried Liquitex modeling paste (great stuff, just sticks to your tools like nothing else). I think that this paste will stick to silicone, tbh.

Try mixing your GS with Miliput it also helps with sculpting fine detail. GS on its own is a pain in the butt so mixing it with other media gets nice results.