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Hi guys,

How does the Ork Waaagh! special rule affect bikes? I am not disputing anything, just looking for clarifications on this.

Waaagh rule.
"...Models with the 'Ere We Go!' Special rule (bikes have this) may charge in the Assault phase even if they made a Run move in the same turn."

Bike unit type rule.
"Bikes and jet bikes can not run, but can make a special turbo boost move instead of firing in their shooting phase."

So I suppose my actual question is - although turbo boost is not a run, is it a 'Run' move?

I am currently assuming that because turbo boosts is not a run a bike can not assault after turbo-boosting even during a 'Waaagh!'?

This of course means that infantry can potential move as fast as a bike during a 'Waaagh!' and Stormboyz will move faster.

Infantry 6 + D6 + 2D6
Stormboyz 12 + D6 + 2D6
Bike 12 + N/A + 2D6

That behavior does seem a bit odd and it is really the only thing making me wonder about the definition of a 'Run' move. It is also entirely possible I have overlooked something obvious. Please help.

Thanks!

You haven't overlooked anything. You cannot assault after a turbo, even with waaaaagh

I think the rules interaction is clear, though possibly unintended. Bikes can't run, so they don't get any benefit from the Waaagh! rule.


As for me, personally, I think that's odd and counter-intuitive (bikers seem to sum up some of the essence of the Waaagh!) and I think that they should be able to turboboost and then assault during a Waaagh! However, that's not the rule, and it's not clear that it is the intention. There are a lot of things that operate contrary to what I would think the intention of a rule would be, so I can't say much more about that. In any case, where a rule is unclear, you might be able to argue from intent, but this one is a pretty clear rule, just one that conflicts with our expectations.

For another example, the Ghaz supplement has a rule that gives +2 to rolls on the Mob Rule table. This rule is both counter-intuitive, and vague. It's vague because you can now roll a 7 or 8 on the table, and the table only has results of 1-6 (and no 5-6+) entry. That's a contradictory or vague rule, and we could go from perceived intent and assume that the designers intended a roll of greater than 6 to be treated as 6.

It's also counter-intuitive, because it means that the result that you WANT in close combat, Born to Fight, is never available to Ghazghull's orks (or orks using a Ghaz detachment). The most common result (2-6) is that the unit takes hits and passes the test, unless they are under 10 models. Thus, the Ghazghull supplement, reflecting a Waaagh with many violent, hardened nobs keeping control, has LESS reliable small units than a regular ork warband. Units of Nobs and Meganobs are MORE flighty and prone to fail morale checks and pinning checks in Ghazghkull's armies. That makes no sense whatsoever, but it's the clear operation of the rules. The Breaking Heads result, which would seem to be the kind of thing that Ghaz and his lieutenants are famous for, is half as common as in normal ork Warbands.

I wouldn't think that the designers intended to make Ghaz's Nobs and Meganobs more panicky than normal orks, but it's what they did.

Da Butcha wrote:
I think that's odd and counter-intuitive

Even my opponent agreed with this statement, which I why I brought it here

Da Butcha wrote:
the result that you WANT in close combat, Born to Fight, is never available to Ghazghull's orks

I agree, and I thought it was odd that they put the best result on a 1 when i read the table.

Thank you both for the clarification. I am fairly new to the game so it is appreciated.

Their bikes engines are too loud to hear the boss call the WAAAAGH.

but yeah turboboost =/= run.

blaktoof wrote:
Their bikes engines are too loud to hear the boss call the WAAAAGH.

That's actually quite a nice way to look at it. Unfortunately my boss is the one on the bike!!! hahaha

However, it appears that If i join an independent character with a bike to an infantry unit before the end of the movement phase, it can run with the unit, and therefor can benefit from the Waaagh!

Independent Character Rule
"While an Independent Character is part of a unit, he counts as part of the unit for all rules purposes."

 NightWolf83 wrote:

blaktoof wrote:
Their bikes engines are too loud to hear the boss call the WAAAAGH.

That's actually quite a nice way to look at it. Unfortunately my boss is the one on the bike!!! hahaha

However, it appears that If i join an independent character with a bike to an infantry unit before the end of the movement phase, it can run with the unit, and therefor can benefit from the Waaagh!

Independent Character Rule
"While an Independent Character is part of a unit, he counts as part of the unit for all rules purposes."

While ICs on bikes can join normal infantry squads (and vise versa), that does not mean they can do something their unit type cannot. If you join a bike to deffkoptas, they both flat out but the bike can't flat out the same 18" so the rest of the unit has to slow down to make sure coherency works. If you join a foot IC to bikes, same happens. Joining a bike to infantry though, the bike flats out while the rest of the unit runs; however, since you cannot flat out and charge, the unit cannot charge (as it is comprised of a model that had flatted out in the shooting phase).

That is my understanding anyways.

Smegging rulez!! Does not sound like my biker boss has much hope of creating any synergy with the the rest of my list :(

What you say makes sense, but this does suggests an IC effectively moves separately to the rest of the unit (because its movement is constrained to its own rules), which would mean it is really only required to keep coherency with the unit until the end of the turn.

So here we go last try...

If the IC joins the squad and does not move in the shooting phase, yet keeps coherency while the squad runs, it should then at least still be able to charge with it when the 'Waaagh!' is called?

I hope this stands up because it would mean even though a biker boss can not benefit from its own Waaagh! it will at least not deny it from the squad it joins.

Correct,
As none of the Models have taken any action that prevents charging in the following Assault Phase, the Unit can Charge after running thanks to Waaaaaaaaaaaagh... I forget how many A's are in there, but I hear more is better then less.

Three A's for usual spelling, two for lazy people like me

 Jidmah wrote:
Three A's for usual spelling, two for lazy people like me

Sorry, two 'a's is insufficiently orky, and can only be considered a Waaagh by weedy grots. Three is the minimum. An ork has to have his standards.

Hmmm.... Lets see....

Waaagh rule.
"Once per game, at the start of any of your turns after the first, a model with this special rule can, if he is your Warloard, call a Waaagh! On the turn he does so, all friendly units made up of entirely of models with the 'Ere We Go!' special rule may charge in the assult phase even if they made a Run move in the same turn."

Infantry Move 6
Run + D6
"Waaagh"
Has rule,"Ere We Go!"
Can charge + 2D6



Bike unit type rule.
"Bikes and jet bikes can not run, but can make a special turbo boost move instead of firing in their shooting phase."

Move 12
Can not run...But Turbo Boosts instead.
"Waaagh"
Has rule,"Ere We Go!"
Can charge + 2D6

You don't need shoot your self in the foot to add something to the rules that isn't there because it dosn't need to be. The Waaagh rule says nothing of "Turbo Boost " But you don't need to add it in either. It says...

All friendly units made up of entirely of models with the 'Ere We Go!' special rule may charge in the assult phase...

 Denua wrote:
You don't need shoot your self in the foot to add something to the rules that isn't there because it dosn't need to be. The Waaagh rule says nothing of "Turbo Boost " But you don't need to add it in either. It says...

All friendly units made up of entirely of models with the 'Ere We Go!' special rule may charge in the assult phase...

I see you stopped quoting before the relevant portion of the rule. Let me finish it for you.
" even if they made a Run move in the same turn."
Gee, do bikes make Run moves? Ever?

It doesn't matter if it said that they crawled, flew, skipped, ran, or turbo boosted. The fact is that it says If they have the "Ere We Go!" special rule they can charge.

 Denua wrote:
It doesn't matter if it said that they crawled, flew, skipped, ran, or turbo boosted. The fact is that it says If they have the "Ere We Go!" special rule they can charge.

Yes it does matter, nothing overrides the turbo-boost restriction on charging.

Those rules override the run restriction, so you can run then charge, but you still can not turbo-boost then charge.

 Denua wrote:
It doesn't matter if it said that they crawled, flew, skipped, ran, or turbo boosted. The fact is that it says If they have the "Ere We Go!" special rule they can charge.

Why are you deliberately misquoting the rule?
They can charge even if they Run.
A Turbo-boositng bike can't charge. Using the rule it can charge even if it runs, but since it didn't run the TB restriction is still there.

I actually think it makes sense to exclude bikes. Infantry only move a total of 6+3d6" when following a run with a charge, while bikes would move 12+12+2d6" I can see why they wouldn't want to let a unit assault something that it was halfway across the board from at the start of the turn.

Not saying I wouldn't love to be able to make such an insane charge move, but I'm not sure it's a good idea from a game balance perspective.

Not relevant to OP, but don't forget that Stormboyz can now Run 2D6 (taking Dangerous Terrain tests) even if they jetpacked in movement AND still charge on a Waaagh turn.

That's:
12" Move
+2D6" Run(-a wound or two)
+2D6" Charge, rerolling one due to 'Ere We Go rule
=anywhere from 16-36!

So yeah, Stormboyz are almost faster than bikes in some cases.

And for the record, I have been playing bikes so far as they don't charge after turbo-boosting. Hopefully this is just an oversight and a FAQ can address it at some point. I would play it either way, but I seem to recall the wording in this codex to be an almost word-for-word repasting of the last codex.