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Hi everyone, I am an eldar player that is new to this vast hobbie, my main opponent is tau so I was wondering how to beat my friends favourite unit.... The TAU PIRHANA. I don't know much about it except it's for the greater good and is fast. I was wondering if someone knew more about and could shine light on how I could destroy it. It will be a problem he runs 2-3 in a 1000 point list!

Thank you!

The main trick to be would be massed mid strength weaponry or invest in some fire dragons for the melta bonus. Other units that may prove useful would be war walkers or vipers. In what manner does your opponent typically use them?

Chase them around the table with a Falcon. The Piranha can't hurt AV 12 with a S5 weapon and the Pulse Laser can ruin AV11 and 10 easily. Just don't let it get your back and that thing is a mouse being chased by a cat. And one of the reasons I keep Falcons. To bully the smaller vehicles.

I don't really see what the problem is. Yeah Piranha are good, but they have paper armor. Eldar have tons of S6+ weapons that can at least force them to Jink and reduce their usefulness.
The trick is to not over do it. Get the Piranha to jink, then move on to another unit. It's either going to do minimal damage the next turn shooting or it's going to soak up markerlights from other units. Put a decent number of hits on it and if he jinks then you can move on to the next target, if he doesn't then you could outright destroy it.

Warpspiders are S6 if I remember right, and should easily be able to get into an angle to shoot side armor.

Second savage. Piranhas are used as either suicide melta units or screening units. Either way, they are very flimsy and once you force a jink they will do next to nothing in the subsequent shooting phase.

Eldar can easily deal with Piranha by dumping S6 fire into the front and side armor. Serpent shields are S7 and will ignore jink, quickly taking out piranha. Any S8 lances, melta, d weapons, etc will also easily lay waste to these skimmers.

The main thing however is that Piranha's are not a major target, and you are probably wasting your time and fire on them. Once they jink/are dead, ignore them. Anything with a markerlight is far more dangerous, then riptides, broadsides and crisis suits will be large threats. If your bringing assault units, the piranha might be used to screen things like broadsides from assault, or provide mobile cover to crisis suits. With the burst cannon, they can't damage your tanks(except rear armor) and at best, kill 1-2 guardians/aspect warriors/etc. The fusion blaster varient will rush the closest tank and hope to take it out.

TL: DR. Don't worry about them. They are low priority distraction units that can be taken out with virtually everything in the dex. Shoot any markerlight or battlesuit first.

I don't know piranhas are a cheap source of drones they deliver the drones and scoot to the flank to force you to deal with them or allow them to nibble on your advancing units. claiming objectives and being a pain in the rear of your army.

a unit of dark reapers will make real short work of the squadrons especially if he is only running a couple of piranhas.

currently running five and moving that to 15 as money allows and they are a real pain that you will have to deal with. dark reapers have enough shots that even with jink you should kill off a couple from a small squad.

Piranha have a 3+ jink with a DPod; I run them up and use the fusion blaster (melta). If it needs to jink, a few markerlights get it up to a higher BS for high profile hard targets that really need to go away (i.e. land raiders, etc.)

As a tau player, making short work of phiranas is easy.

Not only they fall quickly to S6-7 shooting (eldar can get alot of it), but they are also range limited unit on their own right, so a fast moving unit (jump packs or bikes mostly) can assault them with ease if they got into range, and with mere 10 rear, everything S4 and above is a real threat in assault, things with grenades, actual assault weapons of the sorts even more so.

Trying to force a jink however won't get you too far, over half the firepower comes from the drones, who are unaffected, and if they dropped the drones, you probably have bigger worries than a bunch of burst cannons running around.

Remember the main job of the phirana is to distract, annoy and disturb the enemy, they are not the actual threat.
The actual threat comes in the form of crisis broadside and riptide class battlesuits, and is agumented by markerlights.

Markerlights first, treal threats later, bother with the piranhas only after the rest of the army is done for. they do nothing that the tau basic infantry don't already do, they just do it in a different approach.

That is the strength of the piranha, and the exact reason why i use them.

Theyre JUST durable enough to force you to dedicate something to kill them that either is fast as hell and can charge or shoot big guns at them. AV11 front makes them immune to S4 damage, and you can only glance with S5, so most infantry units cant even touch it.

Theyre a distraction unit, though. At 200pts for 5 of them, which comes with 10 drones as well, thats two walls of annoyance you HAVE to deal with. Unless you are playing super assaulty, you should just ignore them. even if they dont jink its only 20 shots at BS3 at uber close range. My piranha shock me when they actually cause damage, as i bring them expecting them to just die instead of my important things.

...they're open topped and one of the easier things to kill. more AP! More strength weapons in your army asap!

Sounds like the job my for crimson hunter.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Vineheart01 wrote:
That is the strength of the piranha, and the exact reason why i use them.

Theyre JUST durable enough to force you to dedicate something to kill them that either is fast as hell and can charge or shoot big guns at them. AV11 front makes them immune to S4 damage, and you can only glance with S5, so most infantry units cant even touch it.

Theyre a distraction unit, though. At 200pts for 5 of them, which comes with 10 drones as well, thats two walls of annoyance you HAVE to deal with. Unless you are playing super assaulty, you should just ignore them. even if they dont jink its only 20 shots at BS3 at uber close range. My piranha shock me when they actually cause damage, as i bring them expecting them to just die instead of my important things.

so there distractions... Thank you!


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 BoomWolf wrote:
As a tau player, making short work of phiranas is easy.

Not only they fall quickly to S6-7 shooting (eldar can get alot of it), but they are also range limited unit on their own right, so a fast moving unit (jump packs or bikes mostly) can assault them with ease if they got into range, and with mere 10 rear, everything S4 and above is a real threat in assault, things with grenades, actual assault weapons of the sorts even more so.

Trying to force a jink however won't get you too far, over half the firepower comes from the drones, who are unaffected, and if they dropped the drones, you probably have bigger worries than a bunch of burst cannons running around.

Remember the main job of the phirana is to distract, annoy and disturb the enemy, they are not the actual threat.
The actual threat comes in the form of crisis broadside and riptide class battlesuits, and is agumented by markerlights.

Markerlights first, treal threats later, bother with the piranhas only after the rest of the army is done for. they do nothing that the tau basic infantry don't already do, they just do it in a different approach.

his fast attack slots are all pirhanas his not using marker lights this is very handy then.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Thanks everyone for the advice, I'm a lot let scared now!

I would save the Crimson Hunter for other tagets, like suits and Broadsides. After all, the Piranha have no reliable way of actually hurting flyers.

Wait hes actually spamming piranha?

Interesting....

I retract my statement to revamp it slightly.


If piranhas are using burst cannons, they are a distraction. If they have Fusions or d-pods or both upgrades, theyre trying to do a specific purpose and need to be removed before that fast fusion finds a juicy target. Thats why i refuse to pay the points to upgrade them, theyre too easy to pop when they actually have value to be worth popping. I like'm cheap and annoying as gak lol.

Tau have other ways to get markerlights outside the FA slots, its just the go-to since pathfinders. Ive actually gone away from that, since they have the same issue as my lootas (worse actually, shorter range) being any ignores cover weapons will clear them off the board instantly and they cant move.

 Rpant wrote:
I don't know piranhas are a cheap source of drones they deliver the drones and scoot to the flank to force you to deal with them or allow them to nibble on your advancing units. claiming objectives and being a pain in the rear of your army.

I hope you mean the Piranha's, as Drones cant claim or contest objectives when the unit is only drones.

Slap a commander to them now they score

Actually im known to do that if i dont have a real use for my 2nd HQ. I'll slap a random dronecontroller commander with two bursts to my 10 drones my piranhas dumped and it turns them into a VERY nasty squad.

He's running 3 single unit pirhanas... I'm confused why not have I unit of 3 and no markerlights?!

Honestly yes, I do not understand what the tau player is planning there.

Can you show us an example of his usual list so we could get a proper perspective? he might be up to something.

3 single piranhas....wat....

i smell shenanigans here. Much as i hate to admit it since im a tau player, tau players tend to do some shady crap with their codex since its so funky compared to others.

3 single piranhas should not even remotely be a threat. A single piranha dies way too easy to be a fusion strike force, and doesnt have the footprint or HP to be a cockblock. The hell is he using 3 solos for?

3 solo is MSU on steroids. If any of the piranhas or drones are shot at firepower is wasted on overkill. It's a lot of fast attack for scouring, but also a lot of KP

Except the drones are worth no KP on their own right, so its only 3 kp for these 6 units.

Its more of a MTU (multi tiny units) over MSU here, but for what purpose?

Trust me, I agree with Vine as a tau here-we do the the nastiest, shadiest, dirtiest tricks possible within the rules and we find every chance to abuse things, its a bad habit that remains from the days of the old codex where it was required in order to have a fighting chance.

ow yea only 3 KP. I take that back and am starting to think they are a solid unit.

They can move and flat out 12" to snag an objective. That's huge in maelstrom missions especially when combined with how expendable they are with their low cost of 16 points after you subtract the value of the drones.

The drones can actually make a decent assault unit. Remember they don't have to win to win. They could for example assault 10 tac marines and an IC or 30 boys and a warboss if the squad is spread out. If they assault the fringe of the squad so that only 2 or 3 models get swings in they will survive 1 round of combat, waste the squads entire next turn, and conveniently die a horrible death on your opponent's turn once the entire squad gets swings in. It will also force the squad to move 9" towards the drones if they survive 1 round of combat.

Overall it's a good amount of dakka for the cost of 40 points.

I can see how spreading them out would be annoying. Three units of 2 drones zipping around with 4 shots per unit. Good case to spread out pinning checks.

It's tough to really see them as that big of a threat though. I'd have to see the OP's list because it sounds like it's an issue of not enough units to spread around fire or target priority issues.

Theyre faster than that actually. Fast skimmers flat out 18" not 12" like normal Fast do.

For that reason alone i can see them being viable, as thats 3 targets for wasting shots and near-table-long objective snagging. OP gave the impression they were giving him hell though, not just holding objectives, which makes me think the tau player is doing something fishy. Three solo piranha should never be a threat.

I haven't played him yet but I used to watch him play.

His list is something like this, I don't know all upgrades though.

Battlesuit comander
Cadre fireblade

Troops

Idk what the squads are but it equals to 26 FWs

Elite
Riptide- heavy burst cannon
3 crisis- fusion blaster and flamer
2 crisis(bodyguards for commander)

Heavy support
Hammerhead rail gun

Fast attack
3 single units of pirhanas 2 with fusion blaster and 1 with burst cannon, all with 2 seeker missiles.

 Savageconvoy wrote:
I can see how spreading them out would be annoying. Three units of 2 drones zipping around with 4 shots per unit. Good case to spread out pinning checks.

It's tough to really see them as that big of a threat though. I'd have to see the OP's list because it sounds like it's an issue of not enough units to spread around fire or target priority issues.

Depends. Look at BAO style maelstrom missions.

http://www.frontlinegaming.org/community/bay-area-open-2014/bao-tournament-format/

The table has been reduced to 1d6 and changes on every mission.

It's usually hold an objective, have a unit in the enemy deployment zone, have 3 units in your deployment zone and no enemies in it, or destroy a unit.

They piranha and drones are a liability if your opponent gets destroy a unit but allow Tau players to score by moving into the enemy deployment zone and shut down the enemy player when he gets hold his own deployment zone. The trick to avoid giving away destroy enemy unit is to hide out of LOS on turns your opponent rolls those objectives.

Any suggestions on why he is doing it?

Eldarplayer wrote:
Any suggestions on why he is doing it?

maybe support the riptide if its a forwards unit.... and with 26 firewarriors kicking back with the hammerhead, it seems like everything is moving forward. They are still vehicles, so getting a hit on them is tougher than the riptide, and with missile pods they can be annoying as feth. If he's leading with them infront of the crisis and riptide then thats just nasty and i quit. wait for the pirrahnas to die before even touching the flame throwers to clean up the mess they've caused. and then the rip tide just walks on them, while the firewarriors pin 'kick me' signs to his back in boredom.

It seems like the phirannas are there for objective snagging.
They just don't serve as a legit threat in this setup, and even when it comes to just throwing more shots, he has an hysterical number of them anyway.
poolatka-phiranas cant have missile pods, only burst cannons or expensive fusion blasters. the forgeworld ones can have more guns (even rail rifles), but cost a hell lot in comparison.


The fire warriors probably have a 12 man team with the fireblade, and the other 14 split into two groups somehow (8 and 6 probably, MAYBE two 7)
The number 26 is odd, I'd say that.


The crisis suits "bodyguards" and commander, really need to know their loadouts in order to make sense of them, as crisis suits are probably the most versatile unit in the game.


The railgun, depending on upgrades, is either a minor issue or a major threat, I'd need to know your army to tell you have to properly deal with it (assuming you are a power armor army, you'll be fine as long you don't have low AV tanks around, at least no important ones. however as your title is an eldar one...if he has submmunitions, he will HURT your troops.)


Riptide I'd assume he took an SMS and the VT to have him serve as his primary anti-air unit, in any case, he is an attention hog, but proper plasma/melta squads can do a decent number on him. take advantage of the fact HBC is really dependent on setting off its NOVA, meaning it takes less firepower than it appears to take it down-it will do some of the work itself


Overall his list seems to have issues with proper 2+ armor save units (codex terminators are NOT proper ones, chaos/SW/GK terminators are.) and high AV values will cause a bit of trouble, but AV10-11 will be a deathtrap.

Refer to this thread I made, it has the lists that I will play with they are all similar but some tweaks: http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/605122.page . The riptide I believe has the 2 plasma rifles on his shoulders.

barnowl I hope you mean the Piranha's, as Drones cant claim or contest objectives when the unit is only drones.

yes the piranhas are playing the game drones are just another distraction that cant really be ignored or properly targeted with good placement and movement.