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So I have a TIE phantom on the way and have been putting some thought to a Loadout!!

I was thinking of going for:

Echo
-Advanced Cloaking Device
-Fire Control System
-Tactician
-Push the Limit

-41-

The way I see it, the Fire a Control Sytem and the Tactician give the Phantom some decent offensive capability on top of the four shot standard, and provides a free Target Lock.

The combination of Push the Limit and ACD then give me the option to do up to four actions in a turn (Action in Action phase, followed by PTL action, then Cloak Action from the ACD followed by another PTL action. Obviously this would give you two stress tokens.

So unless I'm mistaken on being able to use the free cloak action despite the stress token, I feel this could be quite a fun Loadout to use!!

Please correct me if I'm wrong!!

I think you are going to basically always want advanced sensors rather than FCS on echo. The amount of maneuverability it provides is ridiculous.

Intelligence agent is also extremely great with this combination. Tactician is not extremely synergistic.

Push the limit is great. You can push the limit with your advanced sensors, do a green maneuver, and end up with no stress and recloaked at the end of your turn. That's some hard stuff to deal with.

NathanD298 wrote:

So unless I'm mistaken on being able to use the free cloak action despite the stress token, I feel this could be quite a fun Loadout to use!!

Please correct me if I'm wrong!!

You're mistaken, ships can't perform any action (including free ones) while stressed. It's in the Rulebook section on Stress (page 17). Push the Limit is also once per round anyway, so your original example wouldn't net you a PTL action after the cloak even if you could.

Now that doesn't mean that your Echo load out is bad, but with as much maneuverability as Echo has, you're looking at having to choose between using Tactician (which means staying at Range 2), or closing in for that extra attack dice (4 dice is good, 5 dice is better). Intelligence Agent is the better choice, like ph34r pointed out, especially with Echo. You look at any ship in range 1-2 (generally the one you're wanting to attack, or avoid being in it's arc) and you know at least two things, the first one being where that ship is headed, and the second being how you need to decloak to accomplish your goal of either getting it in/keeping it in your arc, or getting you out of it. With the combination of Decloak and barrel roll (with Advanced Sensors), that is a ton of maneuvering you can do before you even reveal your dial. Now, I will say that because I think Hard 1 is probably the best move on the Phantom dial, it leads me into not liking PTL with them, because that shoes me into 2 or 3 straight, or 2 Banks if I would want to clear the stress before attacking so that I can use my ACD. That is my personal preference, but something to keep in mind.

Okay so maybe going for:

-Advanced Sensors
-Intel agent
-ACD
-PTL

That way I could do the two actions (ie barrel roll in to a good position, and then focus/evade/barrel roll) before executing a green manoeuvre to relieve the stress, then attack for the free cloak?

And that way when Echo is on his last legs I can go all out on his last turn, do PTL after the cloak and be stressed for the next turn?

Another option that I like is:

- Recon Specialist
- Veteran Instincts
- ACD

This way you can grab two focus per turn and dedicate one for attack and have one to help with the evades. Obviously VI helps you move (and thus react) after most ships, to get the positioning needed.

I really don't like PTL on Phantoms. Stress is the last thing they want since it denies the free cloak action from ACD and they have a very limited number of green moves. I'd almost always go for Vet Instincts to get that cloak back up ASAP.

 Chumbalaya wrote:
I really don't like PTL on Phantoms. Stress is the last thing they want since it denies the free cloak action from ACD and they have a very limited number of green moves. I'd almost always go for Vet Instincts to get that cloak back up ASAP.

I agree with this so much I am pretty much considering stapling VI to Echo.

 dup3 wrote:

 Chumbalaya wrote:
I really don't like PTL on Phantoms. Stress is the last thing they want since it denies the free cloak action from ACD and they have a very limited number of green moves. I'd almost always go for Vet Instincts to get that cloak back up ASAP.

I agree with this so much I am pretty much considering stapling VI to Echo.

Okay, mayb I should completely revise my original Loadout Is Echo/the Phantom actually worth taking? I ordered it simply because the added movement from cloak looked fun!!

NathanD298 wrote:


Okay, mayb I should completely revise my original Loadout Is Echo/the Phantom actually worth taking? I ordered it simply because the added movement from cloak looked fun!!

In my opinion yes! He is the most fun ship to pilot and he has pretty much won me games alone, mind you there were the other ships causing distractions and Echo takes a bit of practice to get the hang of. But Echo with Veteran Instincts and Advanced Cloaking Device is totally recommended. I've used the other pilots but they just aren't the same as Echo. Sometimes I put Navigator on him for a little extra fun.

>>>"Echo"
-->Sensor Jammer
-->Veteran Instincts
-->Advanced Cloaking Device
-->Navigator
=== 42pts

My version. Much less glass to her cannon. This plus mini swarm is fun. I mix it up a bit.

I could not imagine using Echo without the navigator. I always pick a hard turn 2. Knowing that I can change it if I need to. Then I take outflank to get the extra attack die if I'm not in the arc of my target, which I am usually not. Of course the Advance Cloak is required. It comes in at a cool 40 points. Which I then fill the other 60 with 3 Interceptors (dropping Outflank), or 4 Black Sq Ties with Vet Inst, or 5 Acad pilots. It just depends on how many ships I want.

The guy I play against mostly, switches between 3 named units, wedge, luke and Biggs (I hate Biggs), or 4 to 5 lower skilled pilots in different ships. But Echo always scares him. He says it is simply because he doesn't know where to expect him to pop up.

I love it!

^ Outflank?

Do you mean opportunist (extra attack die) or outmaneuver (-1 to agility of target when you're out of arc)?

I've been having fun with whisper, fire control system, and advanced cloaking device. Plenty maneuverable for me, and a free focus and target lock with every attack.

I meant outmaneuver. It can hurt an X-wing pretty quick.

I meant outmaneuver. It can hurt an X-wing pretty quick

Okay, yeah. As good as that is, I think having VI is more important to ensure maneuvers are effective and to be able to shoot first and get the free cloak.

Echo and Whisper should never ever hit the field without both Veteran Instincts and the ACD.

I liked Echo so much that I almost got a second Phantom... until I realized that I liked ECHO for Echo's ability. Not sure I would like a regular decloak after being spoiled for so long.

I like playing to strengths and keeping Echo as maneuverable as possible, so I typically upgrade with that in mind. It is almost to the point where you need a turret to have a chance to hit, and even ion isn't that scary since it only affects base movement and you can work around that with decloak.

Phantom sounds fun...guess I'm going to the FLGS tonight. Is it pretty much an 'only need one' type ship? Sounds like it gets pretty pricey and wouldn't leave room for a second in an effective 100 point list.

 wikkedj wrote:
Phantom sounds fun...guess I'm going to the FLGS tonight. Is it pretty much an 'only need one' type ship? Sounds like it gets pretty pricey and wouldn't leave room for a second in an effective 100 point list.

I could see some people making an effective double-phantom list, but I typically pair it with a pair of interceptors for my favorite list. As above, I am so addicted to Echo's de-cloak movement that I would have a hard time with the standard Phantom movement.

I've got a list I want to try with both Echo and Whisper pairing with Captain Yorr. You would be surprised how many points you can leave over after the two Phantoms.

As I play the phantom more and play against it more I am disinclined to agree to the 'auto-take' nature of Veteran Instincts and Advanced Cloaking Device. I'm really liking Stygium Particle Accelerator and just being aware that I'm midrange Pilot Skill on them and how I use the cloak for positioning and an extra action the turn it matters.

KnuckleWolf wrote:
As I play the phantom more and play against it more I am disinclined to agree to the 'auto-take' nature of Veteran Instincts and Advanced Cloaking Device. I'm really liking Stygium Particle Accelerator and just being aware that I'm midrange Pilot Skill on them and how I use the cloak for positioning and an extra action the turn it matters.

I simply don't believe there is such a thing as "auto-take," if only because most auto-include cards and models only reflect the current trend, either started because something is simply obvious, or because a well-known player makes something work and everyone band-wagons. I say this as a player who always takes advanced cloak and vet instincts on my Echo; I don't claim to be creative, I simply did that once early on when I got the ship and tend to change slowly. The same can be said for eating at restaurants... my wife knows exactly what I want no matter where we go Just how I am I guess, lol.

I leave the innovation and high-end wins to other pilots.