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Fellow member, I played a game against an Eldar army the other day which fielded a wraithknight with a TL Scatterlaser, a Suncannon (TLed with the SL), and a 5+ invul (a Shimmershield I believe?) (I played Space Marines). As it was a 1250 point game this was his biggest unit in the game. I decided to go all out in an effort to wipe it from the table (a meltagun, a TL Lascannon, a Lascannon, and 4 Missile Launchers) in doing so I was able to bring it down to one wound by the end of the game (meaning ALL of those shots the whole game were worthless)!

My question is should I have tried to kill it (regardless of the fact that I was unsucessful) or should I have ignored it, and tried to kill of his other units? His other units included a 5 main Wraithguard unit in a Wave Serpent, a 2 War Walker squad with 2 Scatter Lasers (this one wiped my Vanguard Veterans and Chapter Master!), a 10 Man Guardian Squad and a 10 Man Dire Avengers Squad (sitting on objectives).

I am not saying the Wraithknight is overpowered, it is my belief that many people consider any unit 'overpowerd' when it is used correctly against oposition that isn't utilized correctly.

I don't mean to sound cold but, without knowing what units -You- had, it is tough for us to suggest a change in tactics.

As an Eldar player I can tell you that Thunderfire Cannons will ruin Avengers and Guardians. Drop Pod Melta is High-Risk High-Reward against the Serpent; 50/50 on that idea. His 2 War Walkers can wipe a unit a turn but, are total 4HP AV10 remeber, even Bolters can strip HP off of them. The best Space Marine unit that I know of for WKs is Grav-Gun Bikes. Even that's rough because WKs can dance just 6in out of range. You say you got Missles and Lascannons? Use those against the War Walkers first! WKs may be a defensive powerhouse but, again Walkers put units back in carrying cases each turn.

Well, to start, your army doesn't seem to have much AT firepower. Thats probably why you found it difficult. For an 1250 list you should have at least 10 sources of S7+ firepower. If you dont have that many, ignore the wraithknight. Locking it in melee is another option. Even with generic squads marines can last a long time vs a wraithknight. Being WS4 with low attack count it will take many rounds to get through even a generic tac squad. If you have a CC HQ with a fist, throw him in there after the WK is locked.

With a mostly low str firepower list, you want to focus on the rest of his army. The suncannon is really only good against clustered marines who arent in cover. Lock it if you can while wiping the rest of his army.

The Wraithknight can get twin linked scatter lasers and not just two normal ones? Been a bit since I looked at the entry because I prefer the base one.

At 1250 its definitely tough to kill for anyone.

SMs best options are running Grav, or an Eternal Shield Chapter Master. Or better yet, Captain America with a unit of Grav Bikes. Pretty much puts Wraithknights back in their case, even better if you can get the Infiltrate 3+ Warlord Trait.

Wraithknights are tough to kill, it takes 18 Missile Launcher Hits to kill one with a Shield on average, 12 Missile Launcher Hits to take out a stock one.

If you didn't have the hard counters, best bet was to just lick it in combat. Marines will do just fine, with four attacks the WK only kills 1.666 Marines per turn, a single 10 man squad can hold it up T2/3-4/5 no problem and is a net win for the Marines player. 140pts to tie up 300pts in a win.


Edit: No, the WK can only take up to two normal Scatter Lasers, but they Twinlink the Suncannon.

One squad of Tactical marines can hold a Wraithknight in a useless assault for the majority of a game.

You don't have to kill it; making it do nothing is the same.

Agree with the above advice. Either ignore it or lock it in CC. If you are going to try and shoot the thing down, you really have to focus, which eats the AT you needed against the walkers. Rancid is right to use your AT against the walkers first, as they do the most damage and are easy kills. Then stop the serpent; the dakka from the serpent is bad and you don't want the wraithguard anywhere near the marines, doubly so if they have d scythes. Once they are on foot they are slow enough you can grind them down with small arms.

Since you are running them, vanguard vets are a decent way to tie up the knight. They give you 2-3 assault phases unless your opponent rolls hot. Even naked, they can at least threaten the knight with krak grenades. If you are feeling sporty, take a fist or 2, maybe some storm shields to all but ensure it stays stuck. If your chapter master is joining the VV and has the shield eternal+fist, you should beat the knight dead to rights.

Yeah, if you already have an assault character, just go kill the Wraithknight with him. They can't use challenges to fight back.

DropPod with 10 man Sternguard. Use the hellfire rounds (poison 2+) and laugh about T8. Thats 20 shots in rapid fire range which will give you on verage 3.7 unsaved wounds. Take a Triple-Las Pred or anything else to finish him off.

EDIT: Sternguard might be expensive, but they can handle nearly everything with their Special ammo.

MasterOfGaunts wrote:
DropPod with 10 man Sternguard. Use the hellfire rounds (poison 2+) and laugh about T8. Thats 20 shots in rapid fire range which will give you on verage 3.7 unsaved wounds. Take a Triple-Las Pred or anything else to finish him off.

EDIT: Sternguard might be expensive, but they can handle nearly everything with their Special ammo.

I usually run a few wraithknights, and the only things I really fear are instant death weapons, and sternguard hellfire shots. lol I have had a storm raven trim down a knight, and of course massed AT firepower, but that usually plays right into my hand because those shots are not as efficient against a knight. My buddy has dropped a unit of 8 sternguard on me and just shredded a knight with the rapid fire hellfire madness.

Aside from this, just tactically outplay it. Especially in 1250. Throw a few wounds on it here or there (AT fire, sternguard, scouts, etc...) and then tie it up with speed bump units. The Wraithknight is much more menacing when it can get the assault because it will choose softer units (vehicles, combat squads, etc...), but if you are choosing to assault him, he won't get HoW, or the bonus attack for charging, so then a 5 man combat squad will hold him up for a turn or two, and you'll hopefully get one or two melta-bomb (or powerfist) wounds on the knight per turn.

Offensively, the suncannon can be amazing, I can't even tell you how many Centurion stars I have erased (or broadsides), with the thing... it is utterly beautiful, but if you can keep these units spaced out (use the full 2" coherency), or hidden from the big Oaf, then you are making the knight player waste his 300 point investment, as he tries to get good LOS on you.

Essentially make sure you are using enough terrain on the table, and you are exploiting it to the best of your ability.

Most often the knight doesn't need to die, he just needs to be mitigated. Don't let him get good LOS and good targets or else he can wipe out units, especially elite infantry.

Bring your own Imperial Knight!
Shoot/charge/chainblade/stomp

A lucky roll on the stomp table will take him right off the board.

Ignore them until there's no more War Walkers or Wave Serpents to shoot.

In small games, ignore it if it has wraith canons, tar pit it if it has a sun cannon. In larger games, sternguard are a good solution for killing it, though missile dev squads aren't wasting shots at it if you plan on killing it.

It's easy. Just use gravgunz.

Fight cheeze with cheeze and everyone's gona be happy! Just kiddin' it's gona be a boring game but that's eldar with their wraithknights and serpents, what else would you expect?

One unit or grav centurions. Make use of cover or a tanking IC.

Invisibility

But really ether ignore it while being spread out, lock it in combat with something fearless for a few turns, or blow it up with something that ignores T like snipers or grav cents.

I'll follow up with grav guns. they're almost custom designed to ruin the big "super MCs" days

 koooaei wrote:
It's easy. Just use gravgunz.

Pretty much the answer. A 3 man bike squadron with two gravs and a combigrav strips off 4 wounds on average. Two of these squads can reliably kill one in a single volley.

If you don't have the firepower to reliably bring it down in one or two turns, ignore and/or tarpit it. It's not worth shooting at if you can't bring it down in a couple turns - it will just make it's points back from shooting.

Try using grav centurions in a storm raven.

I might discourage Centurions, in this particular case. A WK fires 2 shots that can bypass the save -and- ID Centurions from superior range. WKs are jump with 36in weapons, Cents are not and their weapons are 24in.

Much better to use Bikes, IF Grav weaponry is your plan. Of course, like Gaunts said, Drop Pod Sternguard kill just about anything. You'll still want them War Walkers out the way first as they can still drown Sternguard in Scatter Laser or Bright Lance shots.

Is there anything in the Dark Angel codex that can reliably kill a Wraithknight? Even a bike Librarian with Force seems like a long-shot. Deathwing Knights can't hope to catch it. Maybe the best I can do is charge it with one of my 4-man Ravenwing squads to tie it up for a couple turns?

Poison, krak missiles. Pretty much anything that can wound it will kills it reasonably quickly because of 3+ armor.

Wraithknights are tough targets, and a lot of the time other targets on the field are of higher priority.

With that said they are great bully units and can be difficult for some armies to deal with.

For SM you have some great options though.

Gravgun bikes and gravcenturions are by far the best options.

Sternguard are also capable here, but personally in a tac list I'd go with grav weapons as they are more potent against other high toughness targets in the game like riptides and dreadknights.

Remember that with ATSKNF the knight will have to punch through literally every marine in a squad to remove them, which can potentially take a long time, and that krak grenades at least allow the marines the slight chance doing some damage back.

You know Dark Angels don't have Gravguns, Centurions, or Sternguard. I think tying them up with a tactilol or bike squad is my best bet since the Wraithknight only removes roughly two marines each turn in close combat. They still gotta reach them tho without it jumping away.

Or maybe ally in an Imperial Knight?

Them plasma bikes would do it. I cant remember the unit name but they come with twin linked plas guns on there bikes. Those things are utterly killer against anything.

Skullhammer wrote:
Them plasma bikes would do it. I cant remember the unit name but they come with twin linked plas guns on there bikes. Those things are utterly killer against anything.

From experience they aren't great at getting rid of wraithknights.

Their low range makes rapid firing difficult. Even if they do get there they will need to put 18 (12 with -1T grenade) plasma hits on a stock wraith knight to bring it down. That's at least 400 points of black knights.

If they don't kill it then it is a case of charge or be charged. They have rending in cc, but the wraithknight goes first and ignores armour and any FNP save they have, making cc a costly option.

That said, DA have limited options, and black knights and deathwing knights are the best choices for the job imo.

Personally I found DA to be too lacking in the current edition of giant MCs and walkers, and swapped to SM bikes instead. Haven't looked back since.

Dark angel solution...Salvo banner and misfortune for the lolz.

 schadenfreude wrote:
Dark angel solution...Salvo banner and misfortune for the lolz.

that's ... not such a bad idea. With the banner, the bolters of six bikers or one Land Raider Crusader yield ~3.5 rending wounds at 24". Add in another power to re-roll wounds, and you average a dead Wraithknight. But that's after spending lots of points and warp charge. Nevertheless, this is better than most other options in the codex.

Mass S5, my Fire Warriors demonstrate how fallible that 3+ save is every time I play one.

My Solitaire killed one as well although it did take most of the game. The knight was hitting it on 5s.

axisofentropy wrote:
You know Dark Angels don't have Gravguns, Centurions, or Sternguard. I think tying them up with a tactilol or bike squad is my best bet since the Wraithknight only removes roughly two marines each turn in close combat. They still gotta reach them tho without it jumping away.

Or maybe ally in an Imperial Knight?

Just when I thought BA had it hard...