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I currently run a couple dev squads, but my PC always seems to get blown away before doing anything, is always out of range, or can't fire because I have to move missile launchers seem better in every way i.e. range, blast, and snapshot, and lascannons seem superior for popping heavy vehicles. How do you guys use them effectively?

Yes, lascannons are better than plasma cannons. Which is generally why they're more expensive. Small blast doesn't make up for the inability to shoot at fliers, the inability to ID T4, and the -2 very critical S against vehicles and MCs, and no chance to fry yourself.

Why are missile launchers better, though? They both have small blast, but the plasma cannon's is actually good, unlike a frag missile, which isn't. Meanwhile, the +1S of the krak rocket isn't a straight win over the -1 Ap of the plasma cannon, especially because Ap3 is in the same group as Ap4-6, while Ap2 is in that magic group with Ap1.

And in any case, they all suffer from the problems of being made much worse by movement, and possibly getting killed before the rest of the squad. There's nothing special about plasma cannons here.

As for how to use them, you use them like any other heavy weapon - sit there, point at the juiciest target, and open fire. In this case, a plasma cannon is a cheap knock-off of the lascannon, except that it can also hit clusters of infantry, which makes it a slightly more versatile weapon.

 Ailaros wrote:
Yes, lascannons are better than plasma cannons. Which is generally why they're more expensive. Small blast doesn't make up for the inability to shoot at fliers, the inability to ID T4, and the -2 very critical S against vehicles and MCs, and no chance to fry yourself.

Why are missile launchers better, though? They both have small blast, but the plasma cannon's is actually good, unlike a frag missile, which isn't. Meanwhile, the +1S of the krak rocket isn't a straight win over the -1 Ap of the plasma cannon, especially because Ap3 is in the same group as Ap4-6, while Ap2 is in that magic group with Ap1.

And in any case, they all suffer from the problems of being made much worse by movement, and possibly getting killed before the rest of the squad. There's nothing special about plasma cannons here.

As for how to use them, you use them like any other heavy weapon - sit there, point at the juiciest target, and open fire. In this case, a plasma cannon is a cheap knock-off of the lascannon, except that it can also hit clusters of infantry, which makes it a slightly more versatile weapon.

I guess I should have specified. The missile launchers just seem better due to being able to snapshot. I know that isnt a huge thing, but I feel like my tac troops should have at least a little force to em yet still be able to move. My dev squad I may keep my PC in, I just hate that short 36" range!

I suppose its more ranting, as I'm starting to end up with models that I've come to realize are useless. In the rush of purchasing things I thought would work, I'm realizing that they either don't fit or aren't quite up to snuff when it comes to killing my opponents.

I've always found that plasma cannons work best in a devastator squad, namely two plasma cannons and two heavy bolters (to help with the squad cost, as the HB is the cheapest option for a devastator squad).

My reason for this is it gives the squad the ability to put six fairly solid anti-infantry shots downrange to decent distance, coupled with two small blasts that make *any* infantry worried, regardless of their armor save, at the same range.

You want to fire the plasma cannons first, going for the most coverage over multiple targets, then finish off with the pair of heavy bolters to keep thinning the squad out after the plasma cannons make any holes in the front rank.

That's the best way I've found to run plasma cannons toted by power armored marines.

For tactical squads, I'd avoid putting a plasma cannon in there if you can help it unless you plan on breaking a 10 man tactical squad into combat squads and leaving the plasma cannon stationary on an objective and allowing it to fire.

For my money, my tactical squads get either a Missile Launcher for versatility, or a Lascannon for dedicated anti-armor operations. Both weapons can snap fire if need be on the move, which you noted, and give you better squad versatility overall with the high strength shot. You've got bolters to deal with infantry in a tactical squad, let the heavy weapon be an anti-armor/high toughness weapon such as a Missile Launcher or Lascannon.

Just my opinion on that. I've had a devastator squad with two plasma cannons and two heavy bolters preform quite admirably over several games and pick up a good number of models thanks to the combined high strength, low AP of the plasma cannon blasts coupled with the shot volume of a pair of heavy bolters backing them up.

Hope that helps. Take it easy for now.

-Red__Thirst-

Plasma cannons have been relegated to 2 situations were they are useful.

A. Ultramarines with calgar can make good use of em. You buy a 10 man dev squad and a rhino, put the 2 plasma cannons in the rhino tac'd up and the other 2 heavy weapons (lazcannons) on a backfield objective. First turn you flat up up to where you know you'll have a good target. Second turn you can call devestator protocalls for relentless and pop the 2 plasmas from the back of the rhino onto somthing.

B. Legion of the damned are slow and purpousful and get to deep strike. They make excellent use out of plasma cannons since they get ignores cover on them.

jreilly89 wrote: The missile launchers just seem better due to being able to snapshot.

Yeah, but it's with middle-weight killing power that's then reduced to a single BS1 shot. That's not THAT much of an improvement over literally nothing. I mean, with fliers you take what you can get, but against everything else, yeah it's not that big of an advantage. I think it would be better to fire a plasma cannon once and then not at all (stationary, then move+run) than two turns of snap-firing with a krak missile (moving both turns and shooting).

jreilly89 wrote: I know that isnt a huge thing, but I feel like my tac troops should have at least a little force to em yet still be able to move.

Yeah, tac squads are probably a bad place for plasma cannons. Even probably for lascannons. Multimeltas will probably serve you better, being more range-compatible, and missile launchers and heavy bolters are cheap, so you lose less by not being able to fire them at full BS as much.

jreilly89 wrote:I'm starting to end up with models that I've come to realize are useless.

Plasma cannons are many things, but they are VERY far from useless.

They are still S7, and that still ID's T3, and wounds virtually everything on 2's, and can strip hull points off vehicles. They're still AP2, which means that they're an oversized threat to vehicles and monstrous creatures than S alone would tell, and they can still grind up terminators at range.

There is a lot a plasma cannon can do. They are not useless. Don't get sucked into false dichotomies. It's bad for your brain as it is for your soul.

I like my PC Dev squad. So long as I can put them behind my aegis or in some form of cover they do really well. They have good range and strong fire power.

I'm a big fan of 6 Long Fangs with 5 plasma cannons, ideally with Prescience though I used to attach a Rune Priest to them if I got Perfect Timing.

Now, with the changes of 7th, a Saga of the Hunter Wolf Priest makes them pretty brutal. Preferred Enemy reduces the risk of Overheats and Stealth to a unit already in Ruins makes them slightly more durable. Tack on that they become fearless and you get a nice little lump of damage.

Admittedly, small blasts aren't miracle workers when it comes to killing power, but they do make for a nice deterrent to Deep Striking shooting units. Anyone who drops in and shoots rather than run to spread out is going to be incinerated.

Plasma cannons have their place and time, and fighting MC or AV spam isn't one of them. I find camping them in rhinos on an objective is the best way to keep them alive for a turn or two.

If you aren't taking blast weapons, then I can bunch up in cover, and squeeze in close.
If you do take blast weapons, I have to spread out, which puts parts of my squad further away as I pull kills from the front.
If I fail a charge by an inch or two, it's very possible to attribute that to the fact that you brought blast markers that are a threat.
The presence of plasma cannons will also change where I deep strike, and what I do when I land.

All of this makes it very hard to compare actual in game performance of Lascannon vs Plasmacannon vs Missile Launcher.

A dev squad with 4 plasma cannons and tigurius for ignores cover/prescience is outrageously overpowered. Ive used it to liquefy all kinds of things from terminators to riptides. Only thing is it becomes a bullet magnet so you better have it hunkered down in some good cover and make sure its a full squad. I leave tank busting and anti air to lascannon/melta TACs and TL LC Stormtalons