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Has any one found a good use for heavy bolters. i have several of them. I play all manner of Marines so codex doesnt matter much.
i am trying tofigure out what to do with the ones i have =P

Thanks Dakkanauts

Against orks, eldar vehicle squadrons (vypers/warwalkers), IG sentinals, any av10 squadron really, IF devestators with heavy bolters are literally devestating...

Killing horde units.

Can do okay against footslogging Eldar.

Oh and necron silver horde hates st5 ap4 high rof...

Sentinels of Terra for TL at half-range. Beyond that... Not much.

On a seperate note, I find it strange how people tell me a BA baal with hb side sponsoons is the way forward - yet the vast majority of players don't rate hbs.

Give them to Sisters of Battle Retributors and make them Rending. Glance Land Raiders to death

GoonBandito wrote:
Give them to Sisters of Battle Retributors and make them Rending. Glance Land Raiders to death

You would have to hit, rend and then score a 5 or 6 on the rend roll.
1/2 x 1/6 x 1/3 = 1/36. So you would need 12 rending heavy bolters on average at bs3 to cause 1 glance on a raider in the open.

Against av12 its just 1/2 x 1/6 to get a glance or rend (as rending will auto do 1 or the other) so 1/12 or 4 rending heavy bolters at bs3 to cause a hull point.

Poly Ranger wrote:

GoonBandito wrote:
Give them to Sisters of Battle Retributors and make them Rending. Glance Land Raiders to death

You would have to hit, rend and then score a 5 or 6 on the rend roll.
1/2 x 1/6 x 1/3 = 1/36. So you would need 12 rending heavy bolters on average at bs3 to cause 1 glance on a raider in the open.

SoB are BS4. And if you have nothing better to shoot, why not? Tell that to the Land Raider I shaved some hull points off the other day. Plus you have the insult of a Heavy Bolter damaging a freaking Land Raider lol.

They are indeed. My apologies, I very rarely come across them and have no access to their dex. Still quite a difficult chance mind.
However your point stands - stripping hull points off a LR with a heavy bolter is ultimate badass.

They work fine on a Baal Predator. That's all I've got.

 soomemafia wrote:
They work fine on a Baal Predator. That's all I've got.

They do if playing orks, nids or necrons. They are pretty lacklustre against everyone else as other armies tend to be meq, in transports, or are such cheap infantry that you struggle to see your points back.

I use em in 6 man scout squads. Their only 8 pts this way and make them a nice easy number to math with.

I like them on my field armor and land speeders too.

If you face xenos then the HB can usually earn its points back with relative ease (although cover can mess even this up). The issue is that they are largely ineffective vs power armoured foes. In a TAC list they are usually behind the other alternatives, but if you know you'll be playing xenos (I know, list tailoring is bad, but this is to such a minor extent) then feel free to add them without feeling they're wasted points.

In the case of sponsons and such, magnetizing is always recommended to allow variety.

GoonBandito wrote:
Give them to Sisters of Battle Retributors and make them Rending. Glance Land Raiders to death

I proxy my sisters with my marine army. i cant justify 70 buck per ten man or what every they are at these days... i really hope they get new plastic kits soon ish

but yeah Rending HBs are the coolist

Rending heavy bolters make people keep heads down alright. There is nothing in game they can't kill.

Heavy bolters, I've found (take with salt) really only work when you have a squad with them. They need to sit still and pump out the shots to make them count. ROF does wonders.

My $0.02.

Yeah, as people have been saying, xenos tend to be particularly vulnerable, especially orks and DE who also have flimsy vehicles. Lots of people run around with AV10 / 11, and lots of armies have stuff with Sv4+ or worse that isn't always in cover.

There's a lot of stuff a heavy bolter can do, the only problem is the popularity of the relatively narrow range of stuff they can't. At least they still get volume of fire against MCs and the like.

But yeah, in the case of marines in specific 8 S5 Ap4 hits per turn from heavy bolter devastators can be really obnoxious. Just don't have overinflated expectations of them, and they can probably do fine.

They're great at their role, but are totally overshadowed by other weapons which can handle th HB role moderately well, and another role as well for a marginal points difference.

Give HB pinning, shred, salvo, pretty much any extra rule or stat/cost buff and they'd be taken with some regularity.

They do well on a pred with an autocannon for a dakka pred style.

As far as tac marines, if you combat squad a 10 man squad with 5+special weapon in a razorback, the other 5+HB is decent to camp. Otherwise, HB devs with IF is good. If you just want some cheap dakka to add in for a relatively stationary squad then they are not bad, but generally you want to spring for something like a lascannon.

Dakka pred is so underwhelming though.

Armor 13 front 2 str 7 at 48" and 6 str5 36" range are its selling points for 95 points.

Anni barge for necrons being armor 13 front and side, skimmer for jinkability and mobility, 4 twinlinked tesla, and 2 more tesla underneath at str6 for 90 points.

Seems a bit bad on the points balancing.

Even with IWND from iron hands chapter tactics, the pred is outgunned, and less durable.

They need to give us the twin-linked lazcannon turret for no price increase to make these 2 tanks comparable. Or improve the autocannon to 3 rending shots.

Don't ever compare anything to the annibarge, as its the most undercosted unit in the game after night scythe. (probably not, but still stands, tesla in 6th and 7th is absurdly good.)

Anyway, yes. heavy bolters are just not good enough. they need some sort of a bonus in order to count.
in IF armies (or SoT) they at least serve some purpose, but even there they are iffy. (IF do them better than SoT in my eyes)

well on the realm of "how I'd re design them" How about giving heavy bolters "pinning" you'd basicly talking a heavy machine gun type weapon. that kind of firepower's going to prompt people to put their heads down

Much like the bolter itself, they're not a bad weapon per say, just not *usually* worth their average cost, compared to other available options and when considering the 40K meta.

Cheap or free heavy bolters aren't bad though. They aren't the type of gun where it's "okay" to forget to fire them in a turn, like I routinely do with drop-pod stormbolters, or my squad-leaders' pistols. lol

Imperial Fist devastators are S5+1 against vehicles, effectively S6. It makes them good against light armour and hordes, and can even threaten AV12 if need be.

Aside from that they're great against Dark Eldar, good against Orks, and alright against Necrons (AP4 helps and they can even glance the skimmers once the shields are down), IG (vs. infantry and the AV10 sides on the chimera chassis), and Tyranids. They're a nifty, versatile gun. The problem? There's usually something that does a similar, more attractive job (e.g. Autocannons) or a less versatile weapon that does a narrower job, commonly-needed job very well.

 BlaxicanX wrote:
Much like the bolter itself, they're not a bad weapon per say, just not *usually* worth their average cost, compared to other available options and when considering the 40K meta.

Cheap or free heavy bolters aren't bad though. They aren't the type of gun where it's "okay" to forget to fire them in a turn, like I routinely do with drop-pod stormbolters, or my squad-leaders' pistols. lol

yeah it's definatly a meta thing, Heavy Bolters would be AWESOME if your meta mostly consisted of say... Ork and Imperial guard foot armies. The heavy bolter IMHO is a case of the fluff "meta" being quite differnt from the "table meta" in the fluff the bulk of engagements ARE presumably with orks, rogue imperial guard etc. and so yeah boltguns and heavy bolters are great for shredding folks. sadly in table top well... the majority of armies are easily some flavor of marine.

I remember somebody arguing in favour of HBs in Tac Squads as their rate of fire meant that even if you moved the squad you could still score a hit half the time, resulting in less wasted firepower.

 BoomWolf wrote:
Don't ever compare anything to the annibarge, as its the most undercosted unit in the game after night scythe. (probably not, but still stands, tesla in 6th and 7th is absurdly good.)

Anyway, yes. heavy bolters are just not good enough. they need some sort of a bonus in order to count.
in IF armies (or SoT) they at least serve some purpose, but even there they are iffy. (IF do them better than SoT in my eyes)

Second... you forget the wave serpent!

Poly Ranger wrote:

 soomemafia wrote:
They work fine on a Baal Predator. That's all I've got.

They do if playing orks, nids or necrons. They are pretty lacklustre against everyone else as other armies tend to be meq, in transports, or are such cheap infantry that you struggle to see your points back.

I've actually had great success playing Dakka Baal against my friend's Space Marines. 6 shots per turn means that they force enough saves to kill a guy or two every now and then.

Shooty CSMs. Put them behind an Aegis and let it go to work.

While a plasma gun is going to do more for them against tanks, I have other things in my army for that role. This is for fighting infantry.

 soomemafia wrote:

Poly Ranger wrote:

 soomemafia wrote:
They work fine on a Baal Predator. That's all I've got.

They do if playing orks, nids or necrons. They are pretty lacklustre against everyone else as other armies tend to be meq, in transports, or are such cheap infantry that you struggle to see your points back.

I've actually had great success playing Dakka Baal against my friend's Space Marines. 6 shots per turn means that they force enough saves to kill a guy or two every now and then.

Exactly. A 145pt tank killing a marine a turn. 2 with the ac.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Its exactly what I was meaning though. People bang on about how underpowered hbs are. Then all of a sudden they are aparently excellent on a Baal... despite having the exact same profile.

Don't get me wrong - I take them when I know im playing xenos armies (that are not of the eldar/tau variety), but 15pts per bolter seems a bit much. Especially when a lot of weapon upgrades for vehicles in the games are LESS than it costs for a trooper to take them - not more!