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Hello, I had a few questions I have the ghazghkull supplement in front of me, pg 48 Orkimedes' Kustom Gubbinz
"any unit from this detachment or formation in this book, that can select gifts of gork and mork cannot...., but instead can select from Orkimedes' Kustom Gubbinz"

1. Can I take a generic warboss and say he is from the "ghazghkull supplement" and take those relics? because they only have formations not specific units as the first line says

my list would have 1 Warboss 2 units of boys and 1 unit of nobs from this detachment to fulfill the FoC pretty much all is the same except biggest an da best and Da boss is watchin
then I would also include a big mek give him the Mega force field

is that correct?

2. Can a single boss take multiple relics from ghazghkull supplement it doesnt say that it is limited to 1 relic per model as the regular codex does.

thanks

1. Remember the Force Org Chart from previous editions? That's called a detachment now; it's named the "Combined Arms Detachment." But now we have other kinds of detachments, and Waaagh! Ghazghkull presents a couple of them. So what Orkimedes' Kustom Gubbinz does is replace the Gifts of Gork and Mork for models that are part of a detachment that's defined in the Waaagh! Ghazghkull supplement. Since you've got that with your Warboss/2 Boyz/1 Nobz, your Warboss can't take the Gifts but can take the Gubbinz.

I guess what I'm trying to explain is yes, he can take him, but you don't have to say he's from the supplement—what matters is whether your FoC is from the supplement. You could hypothetically run a Great Waaagh! next to a CAD, and the Orks in the CAD would have access to the Gifts of Gork and Mork but not the Gubbinz.

2. Just looking at the Gubbinz page, I'm with you on the multiple relics. Feels kinda dirty though.

Is it possible to use the FoC from the regular ork army and then ally in a CAD from the ghazghkull supp? If so what FoC do I run then for the allied in section.

Man this seems way more confusing

You cannot have a CAD from the Ghazghkull supplement.

All the supplement's special rules (including the relics) are unlocked by taking the Great Waaagh! Detachment or any of the formations. You have no way of accessing those special rules from a CAD, allied detachment or Ork Horde Detachment.

So the ghazghkull supplement has to be my primary army, and I can ally in orks under a CAD?


Automatically Appended Next Post:
I though 7e was suppose to make things clearer this is dumb

Ub3rb3n wrote:
So the ghazghkull supplement has to be my primary army, and I can ally in orks under a CAD?


Automatically Appended Next Post:
I though 7e was suppose to make things clearer this is dumb

It doesn't HAVE to be your primary army unless you want to roll on the Warlord trait table, you can have an ork CAD and add any formation or the waagh detachment armed with these relics

Ub3rb3n wrote:
So the ghazghkull supplement has to be my primary army, and I can ally in orks under a CAD?


Automatically Appended Next Post:
I though 7e was suppose to make things clearer this is dumb

Whatever detachment your warlord in is your primary.

From this thread:
http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/605904.page

 Jidmah wrote:
So sum up:
Army - Everything you put on the table.
Faction - All choices from a codex and all supplements to that codex. Codex Orks, Waaagh! Ghazghkull and The Red Waaagh! all are of the faction "orks". No matter how you get a unit it will always be of the faction of its parent codex.
Detachment - A part of your army that allows you to freely pick a limited number of choices from the different battle roles, usually requiring a minimum of certain battle roles (for example, 1 HQ 2 troops).
Formation - A part of your army that exactly tells you what units you have to pick.
Primary detachment - The detachment or formation that contains your warlord.

Ub3rb3n wrote:
So the ghazghkull supplement has to be my primary army, and I can ally in orks under a CAD?


Automatically Appended Next Post:
I though 7e was suppose to make things clearer this is dumb

A CAD is always from the regular codex. If you want a relic from the supplement, you must take the Great Waaagh! Detachment. Either can be your primary detachment.

The problem you are having is that the Supplement is not an army by its own. You can't field a Waaagh! Ghazghkull army. You can only field an ork army and chose to use the detachment from the supplement. If you do, you apply all the rules from the supplement. If you don't you use the regular ork codex.

OP is correct.

If you want gubbinz you need to field a formation or FOC from the supplement.

If you want orc relics you need to field a unit from the codex

Yes, you can have both in the army. You can even have items from both charts in the same unit unless you're fielding the Waaagh council, which restricts you from adding or releasing independent characters.

But if you take a detachment from each book, as long as it's not the Waaagh counsel, you can have them team up.

And there doesn't seem to be a restriction on how many gubbinz an HQ can take. I'm thinking of giving a Big Mek EW relentless, KFF4++ and a SAG

JinxDragon wrote:
From this thread:
http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/605904.page

 Jidmah wrote:
So sum up:
Army - Everything you put on the table.
Faction - All choices from a codex and all supplements to that codex. Codex Orks, Waaagh! Ghazghkull and The Red Waaagh! all are of the faction "orks". No matter how you get a unit it will always be of the faction of its parent codex.
Detachment - A part of your army that allows you to freely pick a limited number of choices from the different battle roles, usually requiring a minimum of certain battle roles (for example, 1 HQ 2 troops).
Formation - A part of your army that exactly tells you what units you have to pick.
Primary detachment - The detachment or formation that contains your warlord.

Thanks, that is quite useful!
I think this mess will clear itself out when we get more Supplements and FAQs.

It's quite easy to understand once you got it.
I was heavily confused at first, but now I think I perfectly understand how everything works.

The only thing that still confuses me is the Dark Harvest-army from IA12.
They are from the Necron-faction, so there is nothing to stop me from taking Kutlakh in a normal Necron-list, right?

Forgeworld stuff should best be answered by Forgeworld, as they have always operated with additional Rules that sometimes cause conflicts whenever the base Rules update.
Until they release their own 7th Edition book the only way to know if X will still occur is to email them and ask, though I have heard rumors they are no longer supplying the best information via this resource.

I'm thinking a big mek with SAG and 4++ KFF cybork armor on a bike

Here's my conversion of him already

So how would you ally in models using the Waagh! Supplement? In the rule book it says any army can take a CAD, does that override the codex and allow you to not use the Waagh! detachment?

Soss wrote:
So how would you ally in models using the Waagh! Supplement? In the rule book it says any army can take a CAD, does that override the codex and allow you to not use the Waagh! detachment?

Not quite sure what you are asking here, but you can take a CAD of orks and/or one of the detachments in the codex or supplement in the same army. Can you clarify?

So what if you played CSM and wanted to Allie in Orks from the Waaagh supplement, what force org chart would you use?

Are you forced to take the Waaagh detachment if you wanted to get access to the relics from the supplement? What about the rule in the rule book that says any army can take a CAD detachment?

This is driving me crazy, thanks for clarifying for me.

In short:
Only Detachments and Formations from the Supplement.

Soss wrote:
So what if you played CSM and wanted to Allie in Orks from the Waaagh supplement, what force org chart would you use?

Are you forced to take the Waaagh detachment if you wanted to get access to the relics from the supplement? What about the rule in the rule book that says any army can take a CAD detachment?

This is driving me crazy, thanks for clarifying for me.

The relics for the supplement are only for detachments (formations are detachments too) listed in the supplement, you can a CAD, ally, or codex detachment alongside the csm detachments, but you would have to use the codex relics for those detachments.

So you can take any combination of these detachments for your orks is addition to your csm detachments:

1. CAD - codex relics
2. Ally detachment (only if your Warlord is csm) - codex relics
3. Codex detachment - codex relics
4. Supplement detachment - supplement relics

Make sense?

Makes sense, I just don't like it. I feel we got screwed over with the Ork supplement. Every other supplement out there can use the CAD detachment and the relics. Objective secured is just so good it is a waste to not have it, plus the rules for the Ork supplement kinda suck.

Just let down a bit. Mob Rule is rough and I was looking forward to using the Big Bosspole for the fearless effect and get objective secure also.

Why can't you get objective secured with supplement stuff

Soss wrote:
Makes sense, I just don't like it. I feel we got screwed over with the Ork supplement. Every other supplement out there can use the CAD detachment and the relics. Objective secured is just so good it is a waste to not have it, plus the rules for the Ork supplement kinda suck.

Just let down a bit. Mob Rule is rough and I was looking forward to using the Big Bosspole for the fearless effect and get objective secure also.

I think Objective Secured is overrated for Orks.
You don't need a special rule if you are running with 20 Boyz.
Objective Secure is more a MSU-thing where 5 Space Marines try to take an objective.

CAD is just placed in the books because they changed how Detachments work and they needed a "one Detachment fits all".
In the future you will see that nearly every Codex will get its own Detachment.
Imagine Blood Angels with a "scatter-free" detachment, or Detachments with 4 Elite-slots.
I can also see them putting ASM back to Fast Attack and removing the Mandatory Troops from the BA-Detachment.

Each detachment has it's own benefits.
CAD gets Objective Secured and a reroll on the Warlord Trait.
Allied gets OS and a lower troop-requirement.
Ork Horde gets a reroll and possible HoW.
Warband gets a Waagh! every turn, rerolls and possible HoW.
Great Waaagh! has rerolls, deepstrike, special Relics, a Warlord-buff, special Traits and an updated Mobrule.
etc, etc.

So each Detachment has down and upsides.

Soss wrote:
So how would you ally in models using the Waagh! Supplement? In the rule book it says any army can take a CAD, does that override the codex and allow you to not use the Waagh! detachment?

No, the special rules from that supplements only count if you take a Detachment from that supplement.
Which means you either take a Great Waaagh! Detachment or a Formation.

Ub3rb3n wrote:
Why can't you get objective secured with supplement stuff

Because you have to choose:
CAD with Objective Secured ánd codex relics/traits.
Supplement-Detachment without OS but with Supplement relics/traits.

Waaagh! Ghazghkull wrote:WAAAGH! GHAZGHKULL SPECIAL RULES

If you use the Formations or the Great Waaagh! Detachment in this book, the following supplemental special rules apply to all of the units they contain.

[...]
ORKIMEDE’S KUSTOM GUBBINZ

Any units from a Detachment or Formation presented in this book that can select Gifts of Gork and Mork cannot select from those listed in Codex: Orks, but can instead select from Orkimedes’ Kustom Gubbinz, presented opposite, at the points costs shown.

This is probably the rule most people are missing.

Kangodo wrote:

Soss wrote:
Makes sense, I just don't like it. I feel we got screwed over with the Ork supplement. Every other supplement out there can use the CAD detachment and the relics. Objective secured is just so good it is a waste to not have it, plus the rules for the Ork supplement kinda suck.

Just let down a bit. Mob Rule is rough and I was looking forward to using the Big Bosspole for the fearless effect and get objective secure also.

I think Objective Secured is overrated for Orks.
You don't need a special rule if you are running with 20 Boyz.
Objective Secure is more a MSU-thing where 5 Space Marines try to take an objective.

Well said. I like the fact that you have to choose between the different detachments (preferably a difficult choice), and that the best type for you may depend on your play style or your mission. Objective secured isn't bad, but it may not always be the best choice for Orks.