[Necron] Is there anything that can be done with any of the "other" HQ in 7th?

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**skoffs**

I of course mean the special characters.

Everyone knows well that the generic Necron HQ (Overlord on Barge and Destroyer Lord) are the best choice in the codex.
And Zahndrekh definitely still has a place in some lists (Obyron, too, occasionally).

But what about the other guys?

• Imotekh has never really been a big draw (apart from in Apocalypse games... but don't take him, then. Everyone will hate you).
• Anrakyr seemed cool back in 5th and 6th... but now?
• Szeras is possibly still the worst HQ in the book, despite his awesome model.
• Orikan may have had a brief moment when people were trying Tremor-Cons, but I haven't seen anything with him in ages.
• Trazyn lost his best thing going for him, now that everything scores.

Has anyone been able to find any remotely viable use for them lately?

**Sigvatr**

Imotekh is too expensive, if you want him to do sth. good, go with a Flyer / cc heavy list.

Anrakyr is useless.

Szeras is way too expensive. 100 pts for a glorified Cryptek? No.

Orikan is terrible. Way too expensive, Stars are Aligned is borderline useless due to it being too unreliable. Why spend points on a model that is most likely going to be good in cc for 1 turn when you can use those points to buy a unit that is good in cc all the time?

Trazyn lost his ability and now only has his staff that still is useless against everything but Orks.

Kulakh is still ok-ish. Use it when you often face MC.

**Eyjio**

Imotekh was only really good in 5e, and even then it was super hit and miss. Since the nerfs to night fight, there's just not been any reason to take him other than praying for good lightning - definitely not worth the points at any rate.

Anrakyr was one of those characters who would've been amazing if the rules team knew how to play their own game. As it is, he was never able to use mind in the machine from a CCB (which he really wanted) and with the last FAQ, he can't even TAKE a CCB. Just not worth it at all any more.

Szeras has always been hugely underrated IMO. He's not particularly good by any means, but his buffs can be really nice. BS5 Immortals or T5 Warriors/Immortals are super good, the only real downsides are the lack of ability to take a Royal Court and the random S5 (which admittedly is dreadful). Honestly, if you've ever run 9-15 warriors in a Ghost Ark, or otherwise regularly take a unit of 9-10 Immortals, he's worth trying out. If you roll that T5 on Immortals, you basically get super cheap Plague Marines trading fearless for better guns. BS5 S5 guns are just nasty to face. On the whole though, niche at best. You also get the coolest looking character as well, which is something, maybe.

Orikan is just bad. At best, you pay for a unit which only does well in the weakest phase of the game. Maybe if assault was much easier to get to, his ability didn't randomly go off, lasted more than one turn and he could get a royal court, he'd be worth considering. As it is, he's a reserves beacon for extortionate points. Cool model, bad rules.

Trayzn went from "hey, this guy is actually pretty good in the rare list" to "utterly worthless". Shame, but that's all she wrote for that one.

**IHateNids**

Depending on if you see Lords of War frequently in your local area, Anrakyr might be a decent investment.

"Oh, nice Baneblade you have there. It would be a shame if it were to suddenly... shoot you"

**jasper76**

Arankyr became un-useless whenever Escalation came out. You can use him to take over a SHV Lord of War's guns.

So its like this....pile Arankyr, 1 or 2 Stormteks in a Night Scythe and fill it up with Warriors. Invest in an Aegis Defense line with a Comms Relay (and a Chronometron if you want to go fool-proof).

Round 2 - In comes the Night Scythe. Drop Arankyr within MiM range of the LoW. Unleash the LoW on his own army, then crush it in one round with Haywire and Gauss (pre-hit it with a Triarch Stalker w/ TL HGC for fool-proofness).

WARNING: If you employ this tactic successfully, expect feelings of bitter dissappointment and frustration to wash over your opponent, and possibly a rage-quit.

**Fragile**

Eyjio wrote:
I Honestly, if you've ever run 9-15 warriors in a Ghost Ark, or otherwise regularly take a unit of 9-10 Immortals, .

How do you get more than 10 warriors in the Ghost Ark?

**Eyjio**

Fragile wrote:
Eyjio wrote:
I Honestly, if you've ever run 9-15 warriors in a Ghost Ark, or otherwise regularly take a unit of 9-10 Immortals, .

How do you get more than 10 warriors in the Ghost Ark?

Sorry, should have been "with", not "in". Obviously 9 will be the ideal amount if Szeras is in the unit to jump in and ride, but 15 outside is often much better I find.

**Sigvatr**

Why would you want to include Szeras in a unit of 9 Warriors?

**Eyjio**

Sigvatr wrote:
Why would you want to include Szeras in a unit of 9 Warriors?

To sit inside a Ghost ark and zoom around going pew pew.

**skoffs**

So they're all pretty much a write off, then.

Of all the sections of the book that need fixing when the next codex comes out, it's the HQ section needs it the most.
• Imotekh needs to be better in CC if they're going to give him a special rule that rewards him for winning challenges. Also, that Bloodswarm Nano-Scarabs thing needs to be changed (no random).
• Anrakyr needs to be less useless. Perhaps ALL Immortals become Eternals with him as your Warlord.
• Szeras' upgrade ability needs to be purchasable for units, not a random reward (what kind of crappy Cryptek doesn't know what upgrades he's going to perform before going into a battle?)
• Orikan needs to come carrying a Chronometron.
• Trazyn needs Objective Secured.
• Zahndrekh & Obyron are okay. Maybe update some of his giveable/removeable special rules.

(Here's hoping for good things come spring '15?)

**jasper76**

skoffs wrote:

(Here's hoping for good things come spring '15?)

Is this the timeframe GW has put out?

**Kangodo**

I would have to disagree, depending on your definition of "write off".
The thing I like most about Necrons is that there is not a single unit (except Lychguard) that make me feel bad when I field them in a game.

My issues with the HQ's:
*Imothek is a bit expensive and pays a tax for abilities that you don't really want, like his Staff of the Destroyer, Phaeron, Nanoscarabs and Humiliating Defeat. But he's still okay and I would take him more often if my opponents didn't hate him so much.
*Anrakyr might get more love now that LoW's are a part of common 40k. I wish he could also give FC/CA to Warriors.
*Szeras: Giving Warriors T5 or S5 seems so weird; I'd love to see him give +1T to Wraiths, or +1S to their shooting.
*Orikan: Really agree on the Chronometron; it should work with his ability too.
*Trazyn needs the Pedro Kantor treatment. So he needs OS.
*Nemesor and Obyron: I just love them! I do wish Obyron has the Phase Shifter instead of Nemesor.

But still; I love all of them even if they only need small tweaks.
Maybe I'm just biased because my other army is Blood Angels, where half of my Characters are above 200 points and where 75% is crap, useless and makes me feel bad about including them in my army.

**Sigvatr**

Eyjio wrote:
Sigvatr wrote:
Why would you want to include Szeras in a unit of 9 Warriors?

To sit inside a Ghost ark and zoom around going pew pew.

I'd rather take 3 regular Destroteks

**DaKKaLAnce**

Are Zand and Obyron still very useful?

**Sigvatr**

Zahndrekh still is the best named HQ. Obyron...hm. Very expensive, not as punchy as you might expect.

**DaKKaLAnce**

I tried to play necrons... I wanted to play fluff with those 2 when the codex first came out.

**Henshini**

How about a regular overlord on foot? What's are some viable ways to use him when his popemobile is in the shop?

**vipoid**

Sadly, i fear all of them are pretty bad.

The Stormlord has some interesting stuff, but pays a high price for a fine selection of absolute garbage:
- Phaeron (useless since 6th)
- Phylactery (Wasn't even good in 5th)
- Bloodswarm Nanoscarabs (I think this is the worst rule I've ever seen)
- Humiliating Defeat (And here we have a close second)

Also, of course, Night Fighting got worse this edition - and most of the races with good shooting basically ignore it anyway.

Trazyn is a lord I really want to like, but his rules are appalling. As above, Phaeron is garbage - and now Trazyn has lost his ability to score. On top of that, his weapon is laughably bad, and his one interesting rule is virtually useless because a) it's random - thus preventing many interesting/strategic uses, and b) There's really no reason you'd ever want to bring him back.

Szeras is about 50% overcosted - and his one potentially useful rule is completely undermined by being random.

Orikan just doesn't bring anything. Well, nothing useful anyway. I guess those of you who like buying a model that'll be worth its cost for maybe 1 game turn, and crap for all other turns are in for a treat.

Anrakyr gradually lost everything he had going for him (first he couldn't use his ability out of a CCB, now he can't take one at all). He's not the worst, but he just doesn't bring enough to justify his cost.

skoffs wrote:
So they're all pretty much a write off, then.

Of all the sections of the book that need fixing when the next codex comes out, it's the HQ section needs it the most.
• Imotekh needs to be better in CC if they're going to give him a special rule that rewards him for winning challenges. Also, that Bloodswarm Nano-Scarabs thing needs to be changed (no random).
• Anrakyr needs to be less useless. Perhaps ALL Immortals become Eternals with him as your Warlord.
• Szeras' upgrade ability needs to be purchasable for units, not a random reward (what kind of crappy Cryptek doesn't know what upgrades he's going to perform before going into a battle?)
• Orikan needs to come carrying a Chronometron.
• Trazyn needs Objective Secured.
• Zahndrekh & Obyron are okay. Maybe update some of his giveable/removeable special rules.

(Here's hoping for good things come spring '15?)

I think that's a pretty good summation. All I'd add is:

- Trazyn needs more than Objective Secured. For a start, you should be able to choose which body he possesses. And, after that, it would be nice if he had something other than scoring to make you want to keep him around - possibly a better weapon. I'd much rather have Gauntlets of fire than the useless staff he currently has.

- It might be nice if a few more special rules were added to Zahndrekh's list - given the increased number of 'named' core rules in 6th.

**skoffs**

Sigvatr wrote:
Zahndrekh still is the best named HQ. Obyron...hm. Very expensive, not as punchy as you might expect.

Yeah, but you usually want to take Obyron for the functionality of his super-Veil rather than his prowess in battle... though, admittedly, it's probably just so you can teleport something that Veil-teks can't normally attach to.
*coughPYLONScough*

I still really want to try that alpha-strike where you take Zahndrekh + Veil-tek and teleport into a safe spot in your opponent's back field, then pinpoint teleport Obyron and 20 Warriors in 5" away from Z and rapid fire the hell out of something.

**vipoid**

Henshini wrote:
How about a regular overlord on foot? What's are some viable ways to use him when his popemobile is in the shop?

I usually use mine with a Warscythe, Resurrection Orb, MSS and Weave to support a squad of immortals or warriors. Warscythe lets him defend himself in combat, and gives him the option of breaking away to destroy a troublesome vehicle. MSS is a deterrent to ICs and MCs, and gives him the option of jumping out and assaulting such. Weave is a bit of cheap protection, and also allows him to tank some wounds for the squad - should that prove useful.

Usually, he'll just sit with the squad for the first few turns, and basically just be ready to help out if any of his gear would be useful.

Sometimes I'll run a second Overlord (if I want 2 courts) - which will have the same loadout, except with Gauntlets of Fire. He's usually accompanied by 1-2 despair crypteks for flamer goodness. This gives me another area of the board that's protected by MSS, as well as a unit that's worrysome to any elite units that come my way. But, it also gives me the option of an HQ who isn't my warlord - and so I can 'safely' put him in the firing line, use him to bait out an enemy squad etc. Although, more recently, I've just been using one Overlord, since I rarely have much need for 2 courts.

Also, bear in mind that I'm a completely insane person who uses footslogging necrons, so I don't know how useful this will be for anyone else's army.

**Gangrel767**

How about the Destroyer Lord? I think He is still good with some wraiths

**Sigvatr**

Destroyer Lord isn't named, but yes, it's still good

**Gangrel767**

Yea, sorry I missed the very first sentence from the first post. lol

**Neorealist**

Yep destroyer lord + wraiths is just as good as it ever was. One of the best combinations in the 'dex, I'd hazard a guess.

**skoffs**

Yes, we know Destroyer Lords and Overlords of all varieties and combinations are good.
Still trying to determine whether the named special characters (apart from Z & O) are of any worth in 7th.

So far the consensus seems to be No.

**IHateNids**

I respectful re-submit that Anrakyr will see a comeback.

**vipoid**

skoffs wrote:
Yes, we know Destroyer Lords and Overlords of all varieties and combinations are good.
Still trying to determine whether the named special characters (apart from Z & O) are of any worth in 7th.

So far the consensus seems to be No.

The problem is, none of them really add anything to an army (aside from Nemessor and his bodyguard).

Lets go through some reasons characters are added to other armies:

- High Ld and/or Ld-based rules (e.g. Fearless, choose whether to pass or fail all morale tests etc.). Well, this one is immediately out because our SCs all have identical Ld to our troops, and not a single one brings Fearless, Stubborn or any suchlike.

- FoC swapping (Not quite as useful as it was, but still useful for objective secured, or simply freeing up FoC slots). Again, useless, because not a single SC of ours brings this.

- Psychic powers... HAHAHA, as if.

- Unit buffs. Well, this one could be possible - The Stormlord indirectly helps flayed ones... oh, nevermind, it's random and thus worthless. Well, Szeras can also buff a squad with... sigh... random again. Well, that just leaves Anrakyr - who gives one Immortal squad Furious Charge and Counter Attack. Oh, goody, the unit I don't want to ever see combat gets some combat buffs. Yey. It might be more enticing if it affected all Immortal units - not just one. As it is... no. Just no.

- Other special abilities. Well, even if they don't buff a unit, they can still bring other useful abilities. Well, let's look at ours:
- Stormlord - Seize the Initiative is useful, but Lord of the Storm is less so. It has anti-synergy with our own units, Night Fighting is much weaker now, and the lightning is both unreliable and nerfed (since it can no longer explode closed-top vehicles). It might still be worth a go... if he wasn't so overcosted and loaded down with so much worthless crap.
- Temporal Snares - these were gimmicky in 5th, and 6th nerfing of dangerous terrain has not improved them.
- Szeras... moving on
- Trazyn... well, he scores... just like anything else. Also, if he dies, he can kill off and replace a more useful model. So, that's something.
- Anrakyr - Mind in the Machine is interesting, but very dependent on both the dice and on what your opponent brings (and, further limited by arc of fire). Also, it can be a little counter-intuitive - since you'll normally want to kill your opponent's vehicles as fast as possible, rather than leaving them alive to shoot at him. But, I guess if he happens to have a vehicle that is only a threat to him, you can have some fun.

- Good Shooting and/or CC prowess. Really, this is usually in addition to something else (unless the HQ is a real monster in combat), but still very important. Sadly, our HQs are pretty dire in combat - they all have terrible stats, only 2 of them have good weapons (Anrakyr and Orikan). And, of those, Orikan is literally only good in combat when the stars align. Let's call this a 'no' for all concerned.

In summation, our SCs are very expensive, but just don't bring much to the table. You usually end up paying 160+ points for maybe one semi-useful ability, plus a lot of crap wargear and useless special rules. Also, most are outfitted entirely for combat... yet suck in combat. WS4 and 3 attacks are not impressive for SCs. Also, only 2 of them thought to bring AP2 weapons and, of those, only one has an invulnerable save (the other doesn't even have 2+ armour).

**jasper76**

IHateNids wrote:
I respectful re-submit that Anrakyr will see a comeback.

I use him regularly and to great effect in games where I am facing a Lord of War, though he seems to remain unpopular on these boards.

**Frozocrone**

I did intend on trying a list with Imotek the Stormlord and a Chronotron Cryptek to re-roll for night fighting. For the rest of the points, you fill up on Night Scythes with Warriors and Volteks, as well as Doom Scythes (or Nightshroud Bombers if FW allowed). Make sure you have 95 points spare for a Bastion with Comms Relay.

For deployment, put Imotek and is Crpytek in the corner and block off the LOS with the Bastion. Re-roll reserves and spam Flyers at the enemy.

It could work, given that with your re-rolls, you can keep Night fighting up and have a 3+ Jink save...

**Sigvatr**

IIrc, you can attack buildings now in 7th. So basically, destroy the building, kill 2 T4 models, win at turn 1.