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These seem to be the new hottness for Necron players everywhere.

But are they really worth the points?

Fully kitted with Mss, orb, scythe, 2+, 3++ were talking 285pts. 300pts with a phylactery.

Yes, I know they are super resilient. But can they really do enough damage to justify the point sink?

What say you Dakka?

Wouldn't take the orb. It's only an increase of 16.6% for the everliving throw and not worth it without more models in the unit to benefit from it. Also I wouldn't take the phylactery then. It's already very good that it can come back with a 33.3% chance and will kill something with sweep attacks most likely. But that much points and still having a 50% chance to never have any use of those points... I prefer putting them into sth else.

Still: yes, very much worth it. The resilience comes from being able to choose what fire goes against the hull and which against the rider. Also you can hit flyers with the sweep attacks (subject to discussion, but it is played like this in most tournaments).

It's definitely resilient.

But does it kill enough of the enemy or disrupt their plans enough to justify the points?

It easily kills enough to justify its points (except against blobs which you dont wana charge anyway)

its a bloody flying melta bomb that can open up terminators like a wet paper bag.

I agree about the orb though.

Its not easy but if he manages to go down in CC its not too hard to deny him the revival anyway.

Think of it less as does it kill it's points.

It's really more of a does it kill things that Crons tend to have problems with.

ps. The answer is yes.

deFl0 wrote:
It's really more of a does it kill things that Crons tend to have problems with.

Examples?

Well, I think its not but there are other opinions here.
Its shooting is not much of a threat and in cc you need to pick your targets wisely, no MCs, power fists, and whatnot.
Sweeping attacks against tanks can lead to nice results though.

With the orb and pharlactery probably not. I'd probably skip the demo weave as all hits you'd allocate to the rider are likely ap2 anyways. But otherwise yes, it can wreck flyers with 3 s7 armourbane attacks (sweep hits flyers now) its effectively immune to all shooting barring S10. And still has MSS a warscythe av13 impact hits and a 3++ to beat face im combat.

Woh where and how can a CCB sweep a flyer

 skoffs wrote:

deFl0 wrote:
It's really more of a does it kill things that Crons tend to have problems with.

Examples?

High toughness MCs with a good save. Necrons lack decent low AP shooting. Get your CCB in CC with a riptide or wraithknight.

 gwarsh41 wrote:

 skoffs wrote:

deFl0 wrote:
It's really more of a does it kill things that Crons tend to have problems with.

Examples?

High toughness MCs with a good save. Necrons lack decent low AP shooting. Get your CCB in CC with a riptide or wraithknight.

And get crushed to death...

KurtAngle2 wrote:
And get crushed to death...

What MC would we be talking about?

MC's are a terrible idea, crons have plenty of excellent MC options. With annihilation barges wraiths and death+despair squads. The ccb is best used against squads who dont have easy access to S10 or anything that can pen/ID them (hence not MC's) and serves as a decent tarpit if necessary.

Well, in general I am having a though time with anything that has a 2+ save; especially stuff with a high Toughness that I can't kill with VoF.

I would say that fielding Lychguard isn't really an option, so I am interested in how CCB's fair against those MC's.
Perhaps it would be better to throw Wraiths at stuff like that.

The ccb is best used against squads who dont have easy access to S10 or anything that can pen/ID them (hence not MC's) and serves as a decent tarpit if necessary.

Maybe it would help this thread a lot if people could name their army and tell us one of their units that would be very afraid of CCB's.

To start: My army is Blood Angels.
Sanguinary Guard (without PF) would gak their pants if there was a CCB near.
I would also try to run away with most of my vehicles.

I've played with a necron lord using a warscythe and mind shackle scarabs in a ccb (sometimes with the 3+ invu, but mostly just stock) in 6th and 7th and it is definitely worth the points in most armies. The chariot rules are amazing being able to decide if the rider or chariot will take certain wound pools is awesome, and it is killy but normally your going to use it as protecting slay the warlord VPs, anti-armor, and harassing backfield units.

My normally 1500 points list has a ccb lord, 4 ghost arks with stormteks / 5 warriors in each, 3 annihilation barges ..... 8 av 13 vehicles with jink is more than most people can deal with. If it is the only av 13 thing is your army I would advise against it .... if your spamming them your opponent has a headache with target priority.

It is well worth the points, pricey with the invu and unless your playing 1750+ just keep the lord + warscythe + mms + ccb

^
Suggestion to the above AV 13 Wall list:
Instead of Storm-teks, try Destruct-teks. Not only will you have significantly longer reach, but if you give one of them a Solar Pulse, for one turn, your entire army will get 3+ cover saves instead of 4+.

Look at how many types of attacks this thing has:

1) Sweep Attacks
2) Hammer of Wrath
3) Warscythe
4) Gauss Cannon
5) Mindshackle Scarabs

All on a incredibly resilient platform, AV 13/13/11 3++ or T5 2+ 3++ - It is definitely worth the points.

For me the Jury is out on res orb. I usually run 2 CCBs (Sempiternal Weave, Phase Shifter, MSS, Warscythe), so the warlord gets a res orb. and the other douche canoe just runs around harassing and slaughtering. I have been considering giving each of them a Tachyon Arrow just for those rare opportunities where a STR 10 shot would be useful. The only thing it really fears in close combat against a STR 10 opponent, but even then mindshackle scarabs can help there.

Known lingering questions (things to ask a TO before the event):
-Sweep attack flyers (the ATC thinks so) - RAW says so
-3++ Phase Shifter on the Whole model - RAW says so
-as an IC can it join units - No official rule applies here, but IMHO no.

IMHO - Great unit, worth the 255 points I invest into it.

 Gangrel767 wrote:
The only thing it really fears in close combat against a STR 10 opponent

Oh come now, sir, there's got to be more than that!
How about getting stuck in combat with a mob of 30 boys or zombie cultists?
They might not be able to kill it, but they'll certainly make sure it can't kill anything else more important.

It should be able to hold its own against most MCs. Wraithknights however, are a hard-counter to them with base S10. Still, MSS has little less than 50% chance to pass against them. That's a decent chance of one WK punching himself to death.

 skoffs wrote:

 Gangrel767 wrote:
The only thing it really fears in close combat against a STR 10 opponent

Oh come now, sir, there's got to be more than that!
How about getting stuck in combat with a mob of 30 boys or zombie cultists?
They might not be able to kill it, but they'll certainly make sure it can't kill anything else more important.

Yes, absolutely beware of getting tarpitted, what i meant was more that the STR 10 opponent can double out the OL in CC, and since the attacker gets to assign the attacks (unlike shooting) it's dangerous.

To your point, you do need to use the unit carefully as it can get tarpitted and then you're wasting a lot of points. It's by no means an autowin, but it can be EXTREMELY effective in the right situations, like anything else in this game.

For protection against tarpitting, I usually try to run 1 or 2 units of wraiths. This will help to support the barge if it does get caught in an unfavorable combat.

 skoffs wrote:
Oh come now, sir, there's got to be more than that!
How about getting stuck in combat with a mob of 30 boys or zombie cultists?
They might not be able to kill it, but they'll certainly make sure it can't kill anything else more important.

How dangerous would that actually be?

I would keep my CCB within my killzone, so on a bad day that will be 20 Boyz that I have to charge.
After a Sweep, Tesla and HoW I expect 15 boyz to be alive and I will challenge their character.
Then I add the MSS-attacks that will kill one or two models.
So that are 42 attacks, 21 hits, 3.5 wounds and probably 0.5 unsaved wounds.
In that same combat I will have dealt: 7.5 hits, 6 wounds and around 5 unsaved ones. Add up the 1 or 2 from MSS and they surely are left with <10 models.

They will most likely fail their Ld-Test, which means they run away on a 2+
Or they might have 10+ models or a character, which makes them lose another 3 Boyz and you will kill them next turn.

FU Orkz, you just got owned in melee by Necrons
Best part being: They will never see this coming!

 Murenius wrote:
Wouldn't take the orb. It's only an increase of 16.6% for the everliving throw and not worth it without more models in the unit to benefit from it. Also I wouldn't take the phylactery then. It's already very good that it can come back with a 33.3% chance and will kill something with sweep attacks most likely. But that much points and still having a 50% chance to never have any use of those points... I prefer putting them into sth else.

Still: yes, very much worth it. The resilience comes from being able to choose what fire goes against the hull and which against the rider. Also you can hit flyers with the sweep attacks (subject to discussion, but it is played like this in most tournaments).

I rezzed 4 times in one game, the only game where he actually DIED in the first place. The Rez orb made that happen.

But to answer the OPs question, if there is anything in the codex that's worth it's points, it's the CCB. A Fast skimmer that fights in combat, and has a warscythe and can cut up vehicles by just moving over them? Yes, very much so worth it.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Also, forgot to mention if you get FNP on him with the new Warlord traits, yeah no, he doesn't die.

Its a lot worse when melta bombs are involved.

sure the lord will kill a few things in I2 but once melta bombs are planted the lord will pop fairly quickly

Or anything that can punch out lv11 rear. Hammer hand conscript blobs with a Priest for rerolls to hit against rear armor will probably glance it to death, and with a decent roll prevent the lord from coming back properly

Honestly the good thing about the barge is the insane mobility and has no brakes. send it off to a side that the enemy cant deal with and go break the back lines, jinking for 3++ing all the way to the bank.

 Desubot wrote:
Or anything that can punch out lv11 rear. Hammer hand conscript blobs with a Priest for rerolls to hit against rear armor will probably glance it to death, and with a decent roll prevent the lord from coming back properly

It's a chariot, so attacks allocated against it must strike the front armour.

 Desubot wrote:
Its a lot worse when melta bombs are involved.

sure the lord will kill a few things in I2 but once melta bombs are planted the lord will pop fairly quickly

Or anything that can punch out lv11 rear. Hammer hand conscript blobs with a Priest for rerolls to hit against rear armor will probably glance it to death, and with a decent roll prevent the lord from coming back properly

Honestly the good thing about the barge is the insane mobility and has no brakes. send it off to a side that the enemy cant deal with and go break the back lines, jinking for 3++ing all the way to the bank.

How a 3++? Jink is only a 4+ now. And also, you fight against front armor now in melee, which is pretty handy. But yeah, melta bombs will do the trick.

 Desubot wrote:
Woh where and how can a CCB sweep a flyer

They can't, but people want to play it that way anyway

 krodarklorr wrote:

 Desubot wrote:
Its a lot worse when melta bombs are involved.

sure the lord will kill a few things in I2 but once melta bombs are planted the lord will pop fairly quickly

Or anything that can punch out lv11 rear. Hammer hand conscript blobs with a Priest for rerolls to hit against rear armor will probably glance it to death, and with a decent roll prevent the lord from coming back properly

Honestly the good thing about the barge is the insane mobility and has no brakes. send it off to a side that the enemy cant deal with and go break the back lines, jinking for 3++ing all the way to the bank.

How a 3++? Jink is only a 4+ now. And also, you fight against front armor now in melee, which is pretty handy. But yeah, melta bombs will do the trick.

Woop sorry 3++ OR a 4+ jinking

omerakk wrote:

 Desubot wrote:
Woh where and how can a CCB sweep a flyer

They can't, but people want to play it that way anyway

Well, RAW it can at the moment. The FAQ from 6th edition which disallowed sweep attacks against flyers is not there anymore, so I'm sure it'll get FAQ'd again, but for right now... it is up to the TO or the players.

I believe the ATC ruled (on the floor) that it is allowed, so that is the precedent that most people are following.

IMHO it shouldn't be allowed to, but there are those who will play it that way, and honestly if a TO allows it, then take advantage.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Desubot wrote:

 krodarklorr wrote:

 Desubot wrote:
Its a lot worse when melta bombs are involved.

sure the lord will kill a few things in I2 but once melta bombs are planted the lord will pop fairly quickly

Or anything that can punch out lv11 rear. Hammer hand conscript blobs with a Priest for rerolls to hit against rear armor will probably glance it to death, and with a decent roll prevent the lord from coming back properly

Honestly the good thing about the barge is the insane mobility and has no brakes. send it off to a side that the enemy cant deal with and go break the back lines, jinking for 3++ing all the way to the bank.

How a 3++? Jink is only a 4+ now. And also, you fight against front armor now in melee, which is pretty handy. But yeah, melta bombs will do the trick.

Woop sorry 3++ OR a 4+ jinking

3++ because of the phase shifter. RAW treat chariot as a single model.... Phase shifter says the model receives a 3+ invulnerable.

omerakk wrote:

 Desubot wrote:
Woh where and how can a CCB sweep a flyer

They can't, but people want to play it that way anyway

The FAQ preventing it is gone. So by RAW you can (it rolls to hit so isn't stopped by Hard to Hit, and isn't a shooting attack so doesn't care about snapfiring)

 skoffs wrote:

 Gangrel767 wrote:
The only thing it really fears in close combat against a STR 10 opponent

Oh come now, sir, there's got to be more than that!
How about getting stuck in combat with a mob of 30 boys or zombie cultists?
They might not be able to kill it, but they'll certainly make sure it can't kill anything else more important.

"Yo, Zahndrekh, can I have some Hit and Run please?" ;D