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So allow me to vent for a moment, please, then I'll get to my questions. I'm a Chaos Daemon player. I love their look, their play style, and pretty much every thing about them. So one would think with these new psychic powers where you can summon more daemons and dominate the game I would be pretty excited. But, I'm not. I'm the opposite, actually. I was so close to actually finishing my army and now I have to buy more models to even compete. I played a game with my buddy ,who is also a Daemon player, with these new powers, and we didn't even have enough models to play properly and he has way more than me. I'm done with Games Workshop, I'm done with all these marketing tricks that make it so you have to buy more models for more money. So it's decided... I'm selling my Daemons and Blood Angles and going with the bitchy aunt of the mini war-gaming family. You know which one... the aunt that likes to bitch about the richer, more successful aunt, but tries to mimic her despite being poor so they have to be cheaper (like instead of wearing Gucci they have to wear the ugly knock-off brand). All jokes aside Mantic Games seems like a great company and there doesn't seem to be a shortage of fans for their games.

So lets move on to my actual point and then my questions. Even though I'm done with 40k and I no longer want to buy GW merchandise, I still want to play Warhammer Fantasy. Kings of War seems to pride itself in being streamline and compatible with other fantasy war games. The problem I'm seeing, though, is each army doesn't seem to have alot of options to choose from. Which army would y'all say is the most compatible with WHFB as far as options go and is also fun to play in KoW? I'm leaning towards Twilight Kin, Dwarves, or Undead. Also, what is the best non-citadel paint range?

I'm really wanting to get into KOW, busy building a few minis and painting them. I have spent a fair bit of time reading the rules and from what I can see, it's more about strategy, movement and positioning as opposed to list building and dozens of options for each troop type.

As far as armies go, I think that the general consensus is go for the one that you like the look and theme of - always been a bit partial to undead, myself.

Paint wise, my "I'm never buying anything that GW makes ever again!" strop resulted in me picking up a ton of Vallejo paints, very pleased with that choice, I am.

Well have fun not like you cant sub your models? OR buy from cheap market like redacted they are really cheap and make 40k models!

Please do not advertise the services of illegal recasters on DakkaDakka. Thanks ~ The Staff

 Chillreaper wrote:
I'm really wanting to get into KOW, busy building a few minis and painting them. I have spent a fair bit of time reading the rules and from what I can see, it's more about strategy, movement and positioning as opposed to list building and dozens of options for each troop type.

As far as armies go, I think that the general consensus is go for the one that you like the look and theme of - always been a bit partial to undead, myself.

Paint wise, my "I'm never buying anything that GW makes ever again!" strop resulted in me picking up a ton of Vallejo paints, very pleased with that choice, I am.

The undead is what got me looking at KoW in the first place, I had wanted to play Vampire Counts in WFFB but the GW zombie models looked terrible. Are the undead compatible with WHFB Vampire Counts?

DarkTwin123 wrote:

 Chillreaper wrote:
I'm really wanting to get into KOW, busy building a few minis and painting them. I have spent a fair bit of time reading the rules and from what I can see, it's more about strategy, movement and positioning as opposed to list building and dozens of options for each troop type.

As far as armies go, I think that the general consensus is go for the one that you like the look and theme of - always been a bit partial to undead, myself.

Paint wise, my "I'm never buying anything that GW makes ever again!" strop resulted in me picking up a ton of Vallejo paints, very pleased with that choice, I am.

The undead is what got me looking at KoW in the first place, I had wanted to play Vampire Counts in WFFB but the GW zombie models looked terrible. Are the undead compatible with WHFB Vampire Counts?

Yes

DarkTwin123, welcome to the fold! Where are you located in the USA?

There's really nothing stopping you from using your existing WHFB models in KoW - or any other manufacturer, in fact. I'm using Gamezone's new plastic Dark Elves as my Twilight Kin because I think they're the best Dark Elves on the market.

What WHFB armies do you currently have? Daemons? Are they based for 40k? Because you can certainly use the Abyssals army list if you were to rebase them.

But KoW is definitely the most forgiving wargame when it comes to choosing an army based on aesthetic. There's not really one uber-army; every army is competetive, and I'd even put money on that if you were to randomly choose units in an army list you'd still be able to make it work on the battlefield

 judgedoug wrote:
DarkTwin123, welcome to the fold! Where are you located in the USA?

There's really nothing stopping you from using your existing WHFB models in KoW - or any other manufacturer, in fact. I'm using Gamezone's new plastic Dark Elves as my Twilight Kin because I think they're the best Dark Elves on the market.

What WHFB armies do you currently have? Daemons? Are they based for 40k? Because you can certainly use the Abyssals army list if you were to rebase them.

But KoW is definitely the most forgiving wargame when it comes to choosing an army based on aesthetic. There's not really one uber-army; every army is competetive, and I'd even put money on that if you were to randomly choose units in an army list you'd still be able to make it work on the battlefield

The only WHFB army i own are Daemons and they are based for fantasy but I was planning on selling them anyways because I need the money. I don't know many manufacturers right now but those dark elves look pretty badass though they seem a little pricey. The twilight kin models and the undead models look pretty cool on MG and they are really cheap. If I can find some cool looking dwarf models on the cheap that would be great cuz MG dwarves look knids crappy.

Can't speak too much about Kings of War as I'm still building my first army, but in terms of paint I love Vallejo for their coverage, dropper bottles and vast colour range, but also like and use P3, and have recently developed a fondness for Secret Weapon washes and pigment powders.

There's only one citadel paint I'll still buy ahead of an alternative - Nuln Oil.

Before you sell your army, you can field your chaos demons as a KoW Army of the Abyss.

http://www.manticgames.com/SiteData/Root/File/forcesoftheabyss.pdf

privateer4hire wrote:
Before you sell your army, you can field your chaos demons as a KoW Army of the Abyss.

http://www.manticgames.com/SiteData/Root/File/forcesoftheabyss.pdf

I know two people that are doing exactly that. One with Slannesh, the other with Khorne.

Even with a WH40K based Daemon army, you can just stick them on an appropriately sized unit base using poster putty.

The Auld Grump

I'm actually planning on COMBINING Slaanesh and Khorne demons (hacking and slashing) into my abyssals: Khorne bodies with crab claw hands. My daemon princes will be Bloodthirsters with Keeper claws. It will be glorious!!

Also, the OP had another question on unit count: each list has a good 12-15 units in total, I believe nature has the most. Abyssals have lots of choices though, and so do undead. And the werewolves are actually BEAUTIFUL sculpts that suffer a horrendous paint scheme on Mantic's site. They should use a whippy stick on whoever allowed that paint job. Undead is also insanely powerful, and their zombies, ghouls and skellies are agreed by most to be the best undead on the market.

 timetowaste85 wrote:
I'm actually planning on COMBINING Slaanesh and Khorne demons (hacking and slashing) into my abyssals: Khorne bodies with crab claw hands. My daemon princes will be Bloodthirsters with Keeper claws. It will be glorious!!

Also, the OP had another question on unit count: each list has a good 12-15 units in total, I believe nature has the most. Abyssals have lots of choices though, and so do undead. And the werewolves are actually BEAUTIFUL sculpts that suffer a horrendous paint scheme on Mantic's site. They should use a whippy stick on whoever allowed that paint job. Undead is also insanely powerful, and their zombies, ghouls and skellies are agreed by most to be the best undead on the market.

By and large the Mantic Undead are indeed pretty danged spiffy - most especially the Revenant Cavalry.

The Auld Grump

I have a large mantic undead force built with GW rules usage and KoW in mind.

The biggest roadblock to dual use is that the Revenants, which are Mantic's heavily armoured grave guard equivalent, are not armed with great weapons, which is the preferred way to arm Grave Guard. Not a huge deal, and it might be possible to convert them with work.

What I found great about using mantic was that the basic troops are so cheap while still looking quite nice. I was able to put together a pretty large force (80 skeletons, 2 siege machines, 30 zombies, 20 Ghouls and 30 Revenants) for a very reasonable price. That meant I could afford to spend a bit more on characters and specials, so I got the GW Black Knights (which are a lovely kit) for some plastic cavalry, and converted the Hexwraiths into normal wraiths, and picked up a Banshee, a Cairn Wraith and a Necromancer in plastic from GW to round it off. I'm still planning a Zombie Dragon as centre piece some day, and perhaps a converted unit of crypt horrors.

Mantic's Orc range is also pretty expansive, and their Kingdoms of Men range would allow you to bring in a lot of Historicals if you wanted to, some of which are really nice.

 Da Boss wrote:
I have a large mantic undead force built with GW rules usage and KoW in mind.

The biggest roadblock to dual use is that the Revenants, which are Mantic's heavily armoured grave guard equivalent, are not armed with great weapons, which is the preferred way to arm Grave Guard. Not a huge deal, and it might be possible to convert them with work.

What I found great about using mantic was that the basic troops are so cheap while still looking quite nice. I was able to put together a pretty large force (80 skeletons, 2 siege machines, 30 zombies, 20 Ghouls and 30 Revenants) for a very reasonable price. That meant I could afford to spend a bit more on characters and specials, so I got the GW Black Knights (which are a lovely kit) for some plastic cavalry, and converted the Hexwraiths into normal wraiths, and picked up a Banshee, a Cairn Wraith and a Necromancer in plastic from GW to round it off. I'm still planning a Zombie Dragon as centre piece some day, and perhaps a converted unit of crypt horrors.

Mantic's Orc range is also pretty expansive, and their Kingdoms of Men range would allow you to bring in a lot of Historicals if you wanted to, some of which are really nice.

Thank you very much that sounds like an awesome idea

DarkTwin123 wrote:
So allow me to vent for a moment, please, then I'll get to my questions. I'm a Chaos Daemon player. I love their look, their play style, and pretty much every thing about them. So one would think with these new psychic powers where you can summon more daemons and dominate the game I would be pretty excited. But, I'm not. I'm the opposite, actually. I was so close to actually finishing my army and now I have to buy more models to even compete. I played a game with my buddy ,who is also a Daemon player, with these new powers, and we didn't even have enough models to play properly and he has way more than me. I'm done with Games Workshop, I'm done with all these marketing tricks that make it so you have to buy more models for more money. So it's decided... I'm selling my Daemons and Blood Angles and going with the bitchy aunt of the mini war-gaming family. You know which one... the aunt that likes to bitch about the richer, more successful aunt, but tries to mimic her despite being poor so they have to be cheaper (like instead of wearing Gucci they have to wear the ugly knock-off brand). All jokes aside Mantic Games seems like a great company and there doesn't seem to be a shortage of fans for their games.

So lets move on to my actual point and then my questions. Even though I'm done with 40k and I no longer want to buy GW merchandise, I still want to play Warhammer Fantasy. Kings of War seems to pride itself in being streamline and compatible with other fantasy war games. The problem I'm seeing, though, is each army doesn't seem to have alot of options to choose from. Which army would y'all say is the most compatible with WHFB as far as options go and is also fun to play in KoW? I'm leaning towards Twilight Kin, Dwarves, or Undead. Also, what is the best non-citadel paint range?

Use your existing 40k Daemons army as a KoW Abyssal army. gak, you don't even really need to rebase them - as long as the unit base is the correct size. The LotR figures in this pic are on 25mm rounds. Not to mention the WHFB Elves are also on 25mm rounds. Werewolves on 40mm rounds stand in for 40mm squares. I use units of 6 LotR cavalry for KoW units of 10, though in the pic they are WHFB ones based regularly for a unit of 10, etc.. Then again, if you also want to play WHFB, you can use your Daemons there as well.



For paints, go for Vallejo Game Colour, or if you can wait a short while for the proper release, go for Vallejo Game Air.

One thing I would add is that KoW has very generous allies rules. If the undead army list (or any army list) doesn't quite give you statlines that represent all the units in you WHFB army, you can bring in allies from another army as long as you meet a couple of simple criteria. For example, I'm building a KoW army around Battlemaster's chaos figures and some other miniatures I've been acquiring. The Kingdom's of man army gives me most of the statlines that I need, but for Beastmen, and my Dragon I'll be bringing in units from the Abbyssal Dwarves Army lists. As others have said, don't ditch your GW demons just yet. They are a playable army in KOW or can be combined with other evil or neutral armies like Undead, Abbysal Dwarves, etc...

I can't exactly tell you which army is the most competitive, b/c I'm collecting based on what I already have, like the look of, and can get cheap and then finding stats that are best representative afterwards.

As for non-GW paints. If you're looking for something as good or better than GW, I've had very good luck with Reaper and P3. I really like dropper bottles.
If you're looking for something almost as good, but much cheaper,, I've been doing most of my painting recently with "Delta Ceramcoat" craft paints. It's the best pigmented craft paint I've found (I've tried them all) and is a fraction of the cost of gaming paints. $1.50 for 2.0 oz from Delta vs $4 for 0.41 oz from GW
It's not quite as good as miniature-specific paint, but it's darn close and my painting skill really doesn't demand anything better.

Also, as others have said, KoW is a game that is more forgiving of army choices. The lack of oodles of special rules means that there isn't quite as much differentiation between units, but there also aren't as many opportunities for units to become vastly overpowered or for one army to become dominant and another useless. As with almost any game, if you run the numbers, you can still min/max and indulge WAAC tendencies, but KoW isn't as rewarding of this behavior as GW rulesets. It seems to reward in-game decisions far more than pre-game list-building.

Good Luck!

Most competitive... I cannot say, but Kingdoms of Men is easily the most flexible.

The Perry twins plastic War of the Roses miniatures are a very good place to start for a Kingdoms of Men army - inexpensive, yet very nicely detailed.

Plenty of options on the sprues, as well.

Undead are very much Hero centered, though werewolves are consistently good in hand to hand.

Elves... are good at almost everything, but lack numbers. I have not yet been beaten by the one elf army in our group since we went to the most recent version of the rules, but others have different stories to tell.

Dwarfs... are the best gun line in the game - if you want a shooty and artillery heavy army, they are your best choice.

The Auld Grump

DarkTwin123 wrote:

 judgedoug wrote:
I'm using Gamezone's new plastic Dark Elves as my Twilight Kin because I think they're the best Dark Elves on the market.

but those dark elves look pretty badass though they seem a little pricey.

I dunno dude they're about a dollar apiece - http://www.gamezoneminiatures.com/tienda/en/dark-elves/1624-dark-elf-infantry-box-plastic-resin-.html

And you are in the USA so email them and they will remove the 20% VAT, so they are even cheaper!

I got two boxes of the infantry and two boxes of the cavalry. Absolutely brilliant sculpts, and the material is really nice and easy to work with.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

DarkTwin123 wrote:
If I can find some cool looking dwarf models on the cheap that would be great cuz MG dwarves look knids crappy.

Old Glory Miniatures to the rescue

http://oldglory25s.com/index.php?cat_id=491&catname=%27Ironfist%20Dwarves%27
and
http://oldglory25s.com/index.php?cat_id=596&catname=%27Saga%20Ostkrieg%20Book%20II%20Figures%27

Their Dwarf Wars figures are really cool and super cheap.

AND If you pay $50 to join the Old Glory Army, you get 40% off everything they make for a year. Yes, forty percent off. About one dollar per metal miniature or $2.75 per cavalry. I'm not sure if that price can be beat.

Old glory is a great way to get some good figures. They've got even cheaper 25mm stuff, but the West Wind figures they carry (including the Dwarf Wars line) are nice modern size 28-30mm figures at a price that can't be beat.

Also, if you look closely at the figures there's a surprising number of sculpts in each set so you won't end up with a unit that looks all 'same-y'.

Note that Old Glory is sold through another website as well that has some better pictures and pictures of some things not pictured on the manufacturers site.

Direct from Manufacturer
http://oldglory25s.com

Licensed Dealer:
http://www.oldgloryminiatures.com

EDIT: Just found out that the site I listed is a separate company from Old Glory, but still a dealer for them. Just for folks information. Message above modified.

 judgedoug wrote:

DarkTwin123 wrote:

 judgedoug wrote:
I'm using Gamezone's new plastic Dark Elves as my Twilight Kin because I think they're the best Dark Elves on the market.

but those dark elves look pretty badass though they seem a little pricey.

I dunno dude they're about a dollar apiece - http://www.gamezoneminiatures.com/tienda/en/dark-elves/1624-dark-elf-infantry-box-plastic-resin-.html

And you are in the USA so email them and they will remove the 20% VAT, so they are even cheaper!
I got two boxes of the infantry and two boxes of the cavalry. Absolutely brilliant sculpts, and the material is really nice and easy to work with.

I was going to order from them awhile back, but they told me that they were unable to remove the VAT for orders under 97 Euro or something like that. The result is that I didn't order, since I didn't want to be ordering extras just because (my planned order was about 60 Euro.)

So they went back on the list of things to check again at some point in the future, but I've bought a bunch of GW DE in the meantime anyway.

The Old Glory stuff looks good, but their shippng isn't especially friendly for non-US-based gamers, so again something to revisit (along with the West Wind option) for me down the line. If I were in the US, I'd already own a bucket of their Dwarves.

Ah yeah there was a minimum order for Gamezone, but I had ordered two sets of infantry and two sets of Cav, which was right around 100 Euro, which then knocked it down to 80 Euro. They also threw in a free set of Crossbowmen and a free Sorceress!

How's their shipping to Australia? Is it weight based or just a magic number? My buddy's an Old Glory Army member so we might be able to work something out where we buy it and ship it to you for actual postage cost.

Their shipping policy is this:

f you are ordering from a foreign country (not USA), then you are charged a rate of $47.95 (as of FEB 2012) again this may change based on USPS shipping rates. If your order is less than this amount, the shipping department sends the website an e-mail and we will credit your account the difference. However, if your order is big, there will be an additional charge to ship to you.

So basically, they'll charge $50 regardless, and when it costs $30, they'll just credit my account the difference rather than refund it.

 Azazelx wrote:
Their shipping policy is this:

f you are ordering from a foreign country (not USA), then you are charged a rate of $47.95 (as of FEB 2012) again this may change based on USPS shipping rates. If your order is less than this amount, the shipping department sends the website an e-mail and we will credit your account the difference. However, if your order is big, there will be an additional charge to ship to you.

So basically, they'll charge $50 regardless, and when it costs $30, they'll just credit my account the difference rather than refund it.

Don't use oldgloryminiatures.com they are a reseller (and it's quite confusing). Order direct from oldglory25s.com, that's the manufacturer direct.
their shipping policy is here http://oldglory25s.com/view_doc.php?view_doc=8

And yeah, it looks like it's based on the flat rate priority mail international boxes. Though Old Glory direct doesn't charge you shipping until after they figure out the price.

Thanks for the clarification.