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While considering past and present plans I remember some 1k Sons upgrade packs yet to be used. Then I remembered reading their backstory so it got me to thinking.

Could the Rubric of Ahriman be recreated by a Sorcerer who was there the first time for the purpose of increasing his own warband? I was thinking that he'd be an exile like Ahriman but not one of the Prodigal Sons.

Well the Rubric doesn't create any marines, it just destroys the body of existing marines and binds their souls to their armour. So you can't really create new Rubric marines, but the spell could be cast again on a new group I suppose.

 Orblivion wrote:
Well the Rubric doesn't create any marines, it just destroys the body of existing marines and binds their souls to their armour. So you can't really create new Rubric marines, but the spell could be cast again on a new group I suppose.

but do the new group of marines need to have Tson gene seed or can they be just about anyone? The spell affected different Tsons in different ways. The powerful psykers became more powerful. The mutants and less powerful psykers became shells.


What happens if you cast it on a bunch of Black Legion? How about using it on unwilling marines?

 Exergy wrote:

 Orblivion wrote:
Well the Rubric doesn't create any marines, it just destroys the body of existing marines and binds their souls to their armour. So you can't really create new Rubric marines, but the spell could be cast again on a new group I suppose.

but do the new group of marines need to have Tson gene seed or can they be just about anyone? The spell affected different Tsons in different ways. The powerful psykers became more powerful. The mutants and less powerful psykers became shells.


What happens if you cast it on a bunch of Black Legion? How about using it on unwilling marines?

Not sure, and when Ahriman used it in the Exile novel it only confused me more. He used the spell on a single marine, a powerful sorcerer at that, and it destroyed that psyker but did not bind him to his armour. So maybe the spell can be tailored to fit whatever the caster wants to do?

EDIT: Or maybe since the sorcerer in question was one of the Thousand Sons and had already had the Rubric cast on him maybe Ahriman just finished the spell in order to kill him? Magnus stopped the original before it could actually be completed.

AFAIK the Rubric was a unique event involving unimagineably powerful sorcery and huge amounts of resources with a demonstrably unique effect. Creating new Rubric marines as such is probably not possible.

 WarAngel wrote:
While considering past and present plans I remember some 1k Sons upgrade packs yet to be used. Then I remembered reading their backstory so it got me to thinking.

Could the Rubric of Ahriman be recreated by a Sorcerer who was there the first time for the purpose of increasing his own warband? I was thinking that he'd be an exile like Ahriman but not one of the Prodigal Sons.

New Rubic Marines are created. Check it out on Lexicanum.

They are made at an incredibly slow rate that certainly does not warrant anything close to building an army, more like just hardly sustaining their current numbers, MAYBE. Keep in mind most 1K sorcerers care not for their fallen brothers and view them as dead already and use their bodies as sell swords, vanguards, and door keepers.

1) Resurrection rituals. Only one has ever been recorded. It might be the only one ever done, or they might happen all the time. Living or dead bodies can be used.

Read Ahriman exile

There's a cool bit that may answer your question

It's towards the end, but it's about Ahriman so alls good

 Vaktathi wrote:
AFAIK the Rubric was a unique event involving unimagineably powerful sorcery and huge amounts of resources with a demonstrably unique effect. Creating new Rubric marines as such is probably not possible.

I'm thinking you may be right. After reading your post I remembered something about Ahriman looking the The Book of Magnus for a spell to save the legion and then needing many Sorcerers to cast it. Something about great disturbances around them as it was being cast. So maybe one can't cast it by himself to increase his war band. Now I'm thinking "acquiring" them from others (iirc like how Ahriman did with the Prodigal Sons) and using them for his own plans.

Probably. But I think it'd be difficult, since I got the impression that when the first rubric marines were made, Tzeench was basically manipulating the Warp (and events in general) to make it easier to cast. It would take another singular event like that, I'm thinking.

The Rubric seems like it was a one time thing. I imagine that existing Rubric Marines can be resurrected, but new ones can't be created.

Yes. It's often used on captured marines.

 Veteran of The Long War wrote:
Yes. It's often used on captured marines.

Source?

So it's possible that the rubric was a one-off event AND it's possible to make more 1ksons or 1kson-like marines.

I mean, abaddon has psychic surgeons to create more khrone berzerkers. They're not... I don't know, "proper" berzerkers because they weren't originally part of the world eaters and didn't have the procedure done on them the first time around. That said, it's possible to re-create the old effects by new methods.

It's entirely possible that a chaos sorcerer somewhere has reverse-engineered the rubric and is using that method to create small batches of dust marines over time. It's not as dramatic as an entire legion flipping all at once, but that doesn't mean it can never happen anymore.

Of course, the new dust marines won't look like 1ksons, because they won't have 1kson armor. They'll be sort of in-game counts-as. Like black legion "berzerkers" still wearing black legion armor, because of course that's what they'd be wearing - they still have the same armor after the surgery.

 Ailaros wrote:
So it's possible that the rubric was a one-off event AND it's possible to make more 1ksons or 1kson-like marines.

I mean, abaddon has psychic surgeons to create more khrone berzerkers. They're not... I don't know, "proper" berzerkers because they weren't originally part of the world eaters and didn't have the procedure done on them the first time around. That said, it's possible to re-create the old effects by new methods.

It's entirely possible that a chaos sorcerer somewhere has reverse-engineered the rubric and is using that method to create small batches of dust marines over time. It's not as dramatic as an entire legion flipping all at once, but that doesn't mean it can never happen anymore.

Of course, the new dust marines won't look like 1ksons, because they won't have 1kson armor. They'll be sort of in-game counts-as. Like black legion "berzerkers" still wearing black legion armor, because of course that's what they'd be wearing - they still have the same armor after the surgery.

Although Ahriman apparently changed all his rubric marines from red armor to blue, because he thought it looked more pimpin'

Honestly, the fluff is a little unclear (hence the difference of opinion in this thread) but I always liked the idea that it could be done, but it's very hard and a lot of conditions have to be met. It can't be too easy, otherwise the Tsons sorcerers would just perform the Rubric on all their enemies and be borderline unstoppable. But if they couldn't make new Rubric Marines at all, they'd be getting more and more sorcerers (which we know for a fact they recruit) and less and less Rubric Marines (even if they can resurrect em', there have to be times when the armor gets lost, or is just to pulverized to bring the marine back). So if they CAN'T make more Rubrics, what we should be seeing on the battlefield is squads of 9 Aspiring Sorcerers and 1 Rubric Marine, instead of the other way around.

 fallinq wrote:
So if they CAN'T make more Rubrics, what we should be seeing on the battlefield is squads of 9 Aspiring Sorcerers and 1 Rubric Marine, instead of the other way around.

It is entirely possible that rubric marines are quantum mechanical particles and can be in multiple places at once. Probably as many places as the aspiring sorcerer is capable of summoning.

I make Rubric Marines all the time. The Tzeentchian secret can be found here


In all seriousness though, I've not come across any official stuff that suggests new Rubrics can be made.

I don't think so, they do tend to come back from the dead quite often though.

Binding rituals are fairly common. Even if you can't create new Rubric marines using the old spell, there's nothing stopping you taking a suit of power armour and dragging some poor Marine's soul out of the warp and binding it to the armour to create a pseudo-rubric without any literal dust.

Whoops... there doesn't seem to be anything here.

 Furyou Miko wrote:
Binding rituals are fairly common. Even if you can't create new Rubric marines using the old spell, there's nothing stopping you taking a suit of power armour and dragging some poor Marine's soul out of the warp and binding it to the armour to create a pseudo-rubric without any literal dust.

 Ailaros wrote:
I mean, abaddon has psychic surgeons to create more khrone berzerkers. They're not... I don't know, "proper" berzerkers because they weren't originally part of the world eaters and didn't have the procedure done on them the first time around. That said, it's possible to re-create the old effects by new methods.

It's entirely possible that a chaos sorcerer somewhere has reverse-engineered the rubric and is using that method to create small batches of dust marines over time. It's not as dramatic as an entire legion flipping all at once, but that doesn't mean it can never happen anymore.

Yep. Chaos-worshiping mad scientists and sorcerers have had 10,000 years to screw around, I'm sure they've come up with methods of replicating functional equivalents to Rubric/Plague/Zerker/Noise marines.

Exergy wrote:It is entirely possible that rubric marines are quantum mechanical particles and can be in multiple places at once. Probably as many places as the aspiring sorcerer is capable of summoning.

lol.

That 1kson is in a superposition of being fine and being exploded by a basilisk shell simultaneously. At the beginning of the game roll a die for each model to see which energy state they represent. All 1kson sorcerers can take the "talisman of schrodinger" for 15 points which gives them a +1 to this roll.