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As a marine player: don't deploy them. Just leave them at home and footslog.


In all seriousness, I think it depends on the mission and who you fight. What army/armies are you planning on fighting (or expecting to deal with)?

 Hashbeth wrote:
As a marine player: don't deploy them. Just leave them at home and footslog.


In all seriousness, I think it depends on the mission and who you fight. What army/armies are you planning on fighting (or expecting to deal with)?

Space Marines are most common at my FLGS.

 Hashbeth wrote:
As a marine player: don't deploy them. Just leave them at home and footslog.


In all seriousness, I think it depends on the mission and who you fight. What army/armies are you planning on fighting (or expecting to deal with)?

This ^^. Leave them packed up and you're all good.

If you think you're going first, I'd recommend keeping them on the table.

Oh! And how many points does this list equate to?

If this is a 1500 - 1750 point list, I can say that most of my anti-tank won't be able to reliably whittle down the serpents on the first turn, anyway. If your opponent likes drop pods, it'll be even harder for him/her to deal with the serpents, as jink makes them a pain for melta marines to deal with.

If you see the opponent is running lots of pods, try to focus on keeping the objectives outside melta range of your serpents (when you deploy). Drop pods are excellent objective holders, but if the marines inside are meant to pop your tanks, the enemy has to choose which is more important, a chance at popping the serpent of trying to keep that objective.

Overall, just force the serpents to be a threat on their own. 5 dire avengers on a point don't scare me as much as a wave serpent, often, and the serpent is much more durable.


Just be wary of land raiders, and prioritize killing those threats that might take out the wraithknight. If I was playing against you, I'd focus the knight down, then use a raider or two (depending on the points) to start dealing with the serpents, getting units into range to assault them.

TLDR: just dance the serpents out of assault distance, and make the opponent focus on them. They're surprisingly resilient, and can really put the hurt on a marine squad.

It's 1850.

Serpent spam is really easy. Just line them up and shoot everything off the table because that's what Eldar do. Deploy all of your wave serpents immediately unless your opponent is Drop Podding a ton of Melta and he has first turn option. Otherwise you can just move with your holofields and jink to become invincible. Usually you can just deploy in a line and advance a bit to shoot all of your weapons at whatever gets nearby. Then late game you can zip around and grab any objective you need. It's the Jetbikes that should be held in reserve to protect them from being shot at.

It doesn't matter how you deploy them....they are an auto-win button....just line them up along the back and shoot everything off the table....then zoom out an capture objectives when necessary. Not like they require any tactical thought.

Bunch them up in a diamond formation and each turn, shift the order so a fresh one is up front and the ones behind can shoot shields. Musical Serpents.

Honestly, even with as simple of a thing as Serpent Spam, you can't have an auto deploy formation. It depends on terrain, enemy deployment, enemy army content, that sort of thing.

 quickfuze wrote:
It doesn't matter how you deploy them....they are an auto-win button....just line them up along the back and shoot everything off the table....then zoom out an capture objectives when necessary. Not like they require any tactical thought.

Yep. for authenticity.

 quickfuze wrote:
It doesn't matter how you deploy them....they are an auto-win button....just line them up along the back and shoot everything off the table....then zoom out an capture objectives when necessary. Not like they require any tactical thought.

Is the animosity really necessary? Don't you write lists that play to your own army's strengths?

 Random Dude wrote:

 quickfuze wrote:
It doesn't matter how you deploy them....they are an auto-win button....just line them up along the back and shoot everything off the table....then zoom out an capture objectives when necessary. Not like they require any tactical thought.

Is the animosity really necessary? Don't you write lists that play to your own army's strengths?

Taking nothing but Wave Serpents isn't really "playing to an army's strengths". How bout I take an army of all fliers and shoot down your Wave Serpents. Spam is hardly tactical or playing to an army's strengths

It's partially animosity, and partially true. The only thing that should give you a hiccup is Necron AV13 wall and Salamanders / UM pods. Everything else, line up and shoot.

 Random Dude wrote:

 quickfuze wrote:
It doesn't matter how you deploy them....they are an auto-win button....just line them up along the back and shoot everything off the table....then zoom out an capture objectives when necessary. Not like they require any tactical thought.

Is the animosity really necessary? Don't you write lists that play to your own army's strengths?

You're right, the animosity isn't really necessary.

I will say that when facing marines, serpent spam is really one of our biggest problems. Even at 1850, we're going to have trouble getting reliable anti-tank fighting them UNLESS we can assault it, in which case mass krak grenades will typically bring it down.

Given that weakness, just keep them at of assault range. If your opponent is smart, he's going to try and make sure the objectives are hard for you to reach, and that you'll have to come close to his units. If he can do this (and it's a VERY heavy objective mission) then you're going to be in more trouble.

 jreilly89 wrote:

 Random Dude wrote:

 quickfuze wrote:
It doesn't matter how you deploy them....they are an auto-win button....just line them up along the back and shoot everything off the table....then zoom out an capture objectives when necessary. Not like they require any tactical thought.

Is the animosity really necessary? Don't you write lists that play to your own army's strengths?

Taking nothing but Wave Serpents isn't really "playing to an army's strengths". How bout I take an army of all fliers and shoot down your Wave Serpents. Spam is hardly tactical or playing to an army's strengths

Eldar strengths are shooting, mobility, and durability. Wave Serpents embody all of these. Plus, they are the strongest unit in the codex. How is playing the strongest unit in the codex not playing to the strengths of the army?

Because they are too strong, therefore bringing a Wavespam list against an unprepared opponent in a friendly game is disrespectful, as you're essentially saying "I care more about winning than I do about you having a good time."

That's my problem BTW, I'm not the sort of player who cares about the result, I mean, I don't set out to lose, but I'm well adjusted enough that losing a game of toy soldiers based on dice roll mechanics isn't going to give me a melt down, it's that this is the most mind-numbingly boring list to play against.

For my daemons, it basically depends whether the deployment roll means I can start close enough to assault them before they shoot me off the table, or doesn't.

Do yourself and your opponents a favour and look for something more challenging and engaging to play.

That is assuming this isn't another one of those "hypothetical" threads we've recently discussed.

 Random Dude wrote:

 jreilly89 wrote:

 Random Dude wrote:

 quickfuze wrote:
It doesn't matter how you deploy them....they are an auto-win button....just line them up along the back and shoot everything off the table....then zoom out an capture objectives when necessary. Not like they require any tactical thought.

Is the animosity really necessary? Don't you write lists that play to your own army's strengths?

Taking nothing but Wave Serpents isn't really "playing to an army's strengths". How bout I take an army of all fliers and shoot down your Wave Serpents. Spam is hardly tactical or playing to an army's strengths

Eldar strengths are shooting, mobility, and durability. Wave Serpents embody all of these. Plus, they are the strongest unit in the codex. How is playing the strongest unit in the codex not playing to the strengths of the army?

It's one dimensional.
How many things do you have to deal with AV14?
It's amazing how a 75 point building can so severally impact a spammed build.

-Matt

 Random Dude wrote:

 jreilly89 wrote:

 Random Dude wrote:

 quickfuze wrote:
It doesn't matter how you deploy them....they are an auto-win button....just line them up along the back and shoot everything off the table....then zoom out an capture objectives when necessary. Not like they require any tactical thought.

Is the animosity really necessary? Don't you write lists that play to your own army's strengths?

Taking nothing but Wave Serpents isn't really "playing to an army's strengths". How bout I take an army of all fliers and shoot down your Wave Serpents. Spam is hardly tactical or playing to an army's strengths

Eldar strengths are shooting, mobility, and durability. Wave Serpents embody all of these. Plus, they are the strongest unit in the codex. How is playing the strongest unit in the codex not playing to the strengths of the army?

Because the Wave serpent is a transport for troops, yet you aren't buying it for its transport ability, your buying it for its ridiculous dakka ability. In other words, are you buying the transport for the troops, or are you buying troops just to get the transport? Are you buying 5 naked dudes just so you can buy as many OP undercosted transports as possible? This is called min-maxing and its a dead giveaway of WAAC lists.

For the sake of competitive list building (that seems to be what this is geared towards), try swapping your farseer and jetbikes for a spiritseer and second Wraithknight, while switching two DA groups over to Fire Dragons (or one) in serpents. May have to shuffle some upgrades.

If you're set on the list you have, reserve farseer and bikes, protect rear arc on serpents, maximize range and hug that 36'' sweet spot.

 Azreal13 wrote:
Because they are too strong, therefore bringing a Wavespam list against an unprepared opponent in a friendly game is disrespectful, as you're essentially saying "I care more about winning than I do about you having a good time."

That's my problem BTW, I'm not the sort of player who cares about the result, I mean, I don't set out to lose, but I'm well adjusted enough that losing a game of toy soldiers based on dice roll mechanics isn't going to give me a melt down, it's that this is the most mind-numbingly boring list to play against.

For my daemons, it basically depends whether the deployment roll means I can start close enough to assault them before they shoot me off the table, or doesn't.

Do yourself and your opponents a favour and look for something more challenging and engaging to play.

That is assuming this isn't another one of those "hypothetical" threads we've recently discussed.

Just to please you, I now put a disclaimer in my army lists saying they are hypothetical.

At the end of the day you can play the game any way you like. You can play Musical Serpents and run it without a care in the world for anything even slightly resembling a tactical game the same way a Chaos army can have three Defilers and a bunch of Lascannon Razorbacks. Or tau can have three Riptides, fire Warriors in Devilfish and the Farsight Bomb. But the game can be so much more than 'derrrr fire all the gunz!!!' like an Ork Warboss. There's always going to be a lot of disdain for players that act like Orks when they play Eldar. But, that's your choice as a player.

 SharkoutofWata wrote:
At the end of the day you can play the game any way you like. You can play Musical Serpents and run it without a care in the world for anything even slightly resembling a tactical game the same way a Chaos army can have three Defilers and a bunch of Lascannon Razorbacks. Or tau can have three Riptides, fire Warriors in Devilfish and the Farsight Bomb. But the game can be so much more than 'derrrr fire all the gunz!!!' like an Ork Warboss. There's always going to be a lot of disdain for players that act like Orks when they play Eldar. But, that's your choice as a player.

I didn't write the list out of a disdain for tactics, I appreciate players who use tactics to win. My goal was to write a list that would give me the best possible chance to win.

 SharkoutofWata wrote:
At the end of the day you can play the game any way you like. You can play Musical Serpents and run it without a care in the world for anything even slightly resembling a tactical game the same way a Chaos army can have three Defilers and a bunch of Lascannon Razorbacks. Or tau can have three Riptides, fire Warriors in Devilfish and the Farsight Bomb. But the game can be so much more than 'derrrr fire all the gunz!!!' like an Ork Warboss. There's always going to be a lot of disdain for players that act like Orks when they play Eldar. But, that's your choice as a player.

I wish I could take lascannon razorbacks... 5 plague marines with Razorspam?

Why not play a well rounded list, pigeonholeing yourself into a spam will leave you weak to the rock paper scissors effect.

If you say you respect people that use, gasp, tactics to win then be respectable and use tactics instead of a staples "that was easy" button.

Dictionary.com describes tactics as "the art or science of disposing military or naval forces for battle and maneuvering them in battle." So, by definition, deploying Serpents in a line and maneuvering them out of assault range is playing tactically.

 Random Dude wrote:

 SharkoutofWata wrote:
At the end of the day you can play the game any way you like. You can play Musical Serpents and run it without a care in the world for anything even slightly resembling a tactical game the same way a Chaos army can have three Defilers and a bunch of Lascannon Razorbacks. Or tau can have three Riptides, fire Warriors in Devilfish and the Farsight Bomb. But the game can be so much more than 'derrrr fire all the gunz!!!' like an Ork Warboss. There's always going to be a lot of disdain for players that act like Orks when they play Eldar. But, that's your choice as a player.

I didn't write the list out of a disdain for tactics, I appreciate players who use tactics to win. My goal was to write a list that would give me the best possible chance to win.

No no, see, the best possible chance to win is building a list that has something for everything. Precision cuts that weaken the overall enemy and then a sledgehammer to finish them off when they're on the floor. Slice out their mobility, their heavy hitting fists, the long reaching arms, then beat them to death mercilessly with blunt force. Eldar are amazing at that and a GOOD aggressive Eldar list can smear Serpent spam every time with some well placed lances, pulse lasers and other assorted tools. That's playing Eldar and building a list to win. You're talking about having a ballpeen hammer in your box and using it for EVERYTHING. Gotta put in a screw, hammer it in. Gotta take out a window, hammer it out. Gotta cut a piece of word, beat it in half. Yes it works, but you're an oaf swinging around a hammer like a fool. Trust me, I like hammers, but don't pretend you're being a tactical genius by using a single type of unit to win or that this is fancy and well thought out. Just call it Serpent Spam and say 'that's how I want to play'. Not 'I'm playing to Eldar strengths'. There's no point defending the list as anything but 'it's my choice how to play it'.

 SharkoutofWata wrote:

 Random Dude wrote:

 SharkoutofWata wrote:
At the end of the day you can play the game any way you like. You can play Musical Serpents and run it without a care in the world for anything even slightly resembling a tactical game the same way a Chaos army can have three Defilers and a bunch of Lascannon Razorbacks. Or tau can have three Riptides, fire Warriors in Devilfish and the Farsight Bomb. But the game can be so much more than 'derrrr fire all the gunz!!!' like an Ork Warboss. There's always going to be a lot of disdain for players that act like Orks when they play Eldar. But, that's your choice as a player.

I didn't write the list out of a disdain for tactics, I appreciate players who use tactics to win. My goal was to write a list that would give me the best possible chance to win.

No no, see, the best possible chance to win is building a list that has something for everything. Precision cuts that weaken the overall enemy and then a sledgehammer to finish them off when they're on the floor. Slice out their mobility, their heavy hitting fists, the long reaching arms, then beat them to death mercilessly with blunt force. Eldar are amazing at that and a GOOD aggressive Eldar list can smear Serpent spam every time with some well placed lances, pulse lasers and other assorted tools. That's playing Eldar and building a list to win. You're talking about having a ballpeen hammer in your box and using it for EVERYTHING. Gotta put in a screw, hammer it in. Gotta take out a window, hammer it out. Gotta cut a piece of word, beat it in half. Yes it works, but you're an oaf swinging around a hammer like a fool. Trust me, I like hammers, but don't pretend you're being a tactical genius by using a single type of unit to win or that this is fancy and well thought out. Just call it Serpent Spam and say 'that's how I want to play'. Not 'I'm playing to Eldar strengths'. There's no point defending the list as anything but 'it's my choice how to play it'.

It's interesting, I never claimed to be a tactical genius. In fact, I said I was an Eldar noob in the original army list post. It seems as if people like taking the opportunity to jump down the throats of Eldar players (I haven't even bought any Eldar yet, I'm considering).

[RULE #1 - Alpharius]

If you're not interested in advice on the list (since you didn't ask for it after all), it really doesn't matter much how you deploy.
If you face a lot of AV13 or AV14, you're going to lose.
That's basically, why your list is stupid, extremely 1 dimensional.

Very true. If you decide to build this list, please tell you fellow marine players to purchase tons of land raider, talons, and ravons, so that they can spam them and defeat your wavespam