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I always ummed and arrrd about whether to include an assault raven in a list. They were by far the best way to get a death co dread into combat, and an unscythed charge of DC or assault termis into a unit was always a great feeling. But there was always the risk of losing everything if it was shot down.
But now with the better jink save and more favourable damage chart does it make it more of a viable choice?
The majority of skyfire is below st9 and usually isn't better than ap3. True -iscarus lascannons, but who really takes those? Even melta (the biggesst source of ap1 which is realistically the only major threat of one-shotting) isn't too dangerous due to ceremite - it still has to roll a 5+ to get onto the pen chart.
The vast majority of my ravens who have been taken down, have been due to guided warpspiders and serp shields (eldar without skyfire are still the best at AA in the game - grumble), so I know it is hp removal rather than pens that usually get them. But increasing the amount of shots saved from 1/3 to 1/2 is a reasonably good buff, and you also have to consider the fact that since other tanks are tougher there will be less avalible to shoot the raven.
Yes there is still the issue of turn 3 assault at the earliest. But unless you take a LR (far too expensive for its output), slingshot bunker (best bet), jump packs (NOT HAPPENING with DC) or drop pods (works en-mass or as a single alphastrike throw away melta distraction), you aren't going to get a turn2 assault anyway.
With the changes, would it make you trust an assault raven more?
I know I have looked on this from a BA angle, feel free to look at it from a GK/SM angle instead.

I played against one the other day (BA). First game I got an immobilized result and the thing crashed down.

Next game I gave it a stunned result and it had to keep flying forward so no assault.

I think your better of with a land raider. Of course it depends on your armylist but its to much risk to fly around with sum expensive stuff that wont do anything until turn 3 (if your lucky!! -> reserves).

Putting units like that inside a Storm Raven paints a HUGE target on it. Any and all AA your opponent has, and even stuff that isn't designed for AA, are going to try and shoot it down for the free STR 10 hit on each of the passengers. I think it's too risky. You're better off running it as a gunboat.

Good points. Sigh. I WANT it to work!!!

shogun wrote:

I played against one the other day (BA). First game I got an immobilized result and the thing crashed down.

Next game I gave it a stunned result and it had to keep flying forward so no assault.

I think your better of with a land raider. Of course it depends on your armylist but its to much risk to fly around with sum expensive stuff that wont do anything until turn 3 (if your lucky!! -> reserves).

Damn you and your lucky lucky lucky dice

Actually the tale was even more dire that first game (I was the BA player he was playing against).

That first game I had a Libby dread with shrouding within 6" of the Storm Raven so I was rocking a 2+ cover save. He shot at me with a squad of Loota's and hit me with 1 or 2 shots. he then rolled a 6 to pen. I then rolled a 1 for my save, he rolled a 6 on the chart, I rolled another 1 so instead of crew stunned it crashed and burned. Then 9 of my DC marines died and the pen result on my DC dread was an immobilized.
I think the odds of all that happing are somehing in the 1 in a 1000 range

So my DC marines are now banished to a drop pod, and my DC dread also now has a drop pod. I still have the Storm Raven, but will be less likely to have them embark on it. I like having the option though (especially for the DC Dread).

Haha that is exceptionally unlucky! I once lost an entire raven + 11 dc + reclusiarch (slay the warlord vp on top of that) and the dc dread on the back. Not.one.thing.survived (well I lie - the dc dread was immobilised, so it might as well have been dead)! That was a year before 7th. I've not used it as a transport since (and therefore my two dc dreads are collecting dust). Just hoped it'd be a bit better now...

I think the only unit that could be safely enjoy the "assult vehicle" of Stormraven is the terminators with TH/SS. As it provide decent 3++ for the passenger. However, if army is built around the terminators, I still think landradier crusader is better transport, as you can use a precious slot of heavy support elsewhere.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

DutchSage wrote:

shogun wrote:

I played against one the other day (BA). First game I got an immobilized result and the thing crashed down.

Next game I gave it a stunned result and it had to keep flying forward so no assault.

I think your better of with a land raider. Of course it depends on your armylist but its to much risk to fly around with sum expensive stuff that wont do anything until turn 3 (if your lucky!! -> reserves).

Damn you and your lucky lucky lucky dice

Actually the tale was even more dire that first game (I was the BA player he was playing against).

That first game I had a Libby dread with shrouding within 6" of the Storm Raven so I was rocking a 2+ cover save. He shot at me with a squad of Loota's and hit me with 1 or 2 shots. he then rolled a 6 to pen. I then rolled a 1 for my save, he rolled a 6 on the chart, I rolled another 1 so instead of crew stunned it crashed and burned. Then 9 of my DC marines died and the pen result on my DC dread was an immobilized.
I think the odds of all that happing are somehing in the 1 in a 1000 range

So my DC marines are now banished to a drop pod, and my DC dread also now has a drop pod. I still have the Storm Raven, but will be less likely to have them embark on it. I like having the option though (especially for the DC Dread).

I can absolutely feel for you for this accident. Mathematically, the probability of such thing can be calculated as fellow:

probability of a hit on flier = 1/6
probability of fail jink save = 1/2
probability of a Loota Shell to Pen a StormRaven = 1/6
probability of Immobilize = 1/6
probability of crash by Immobilize = 1/3
probability of slain all 9 marines by Str10 Ap2 hit = (5/6)^9 = 0.193
probability of immobilize or worse of an AP2 Pen to the Dread = 1/3

So the probability of the occurrence of such disaster is around 0.00004964, much less than 1 in 1000. It's not your opponent but the DICE GODS defeated you

I have seen them work extremely well, in one case it was 2 Stormravens, one with a Deathcompany termies and a chappy and the other with a Dread. It worked very well, but there were several games where it was immobilized, thus no assault drop.

I think they are great, but like everyone said, it is a giant bullseye.

 jreilly89 wrote:
I have seen them work extremely well, in one case it was 2 Stormravens, one with a Deathcompany termies and a chappy and the other with a Dread. It worked very well, but there were several games where it was immobilized, thus no assault drop.

I think they are great, but like everyone said, it is a giant bullseye.

Are you saying he took 5 terminators (which would take up 10 slots), a squad of death company, and a chaplain all in one storm raven? and then a dreadnought in the other?

A stormraven can only hold 12 models but ALONG with that it can hold a single dreadnought, and terminators take up 2 slots for transporting purposes. So either you're remembering it wrong or he set it up completely wrong.

l3AK3D wrote:

 jreilly89 wrote:
I have seen them work extremely well, in one case it was 2 Stormravens, one with a Deathcompany termies and a chappy and the other with a Dread. It worked very well, but there were several games where it was immobilized, thus no assault drop.

I think they are great, but like everyone said, it is a giant bullseye.

Are you saying he took 5 terminators (which would take up 10 slots), a squad of death company, and a chaplain all in one storm raven? and then a dreadnought in the other?

A stormraven can only hold 12 models but ALONG with that it can hold a single dreadnought, and terminators take up 2 slots for transporting purposes. So either you're remembering it wrong or he set it up completely wrong.

Sorry, don't play Blood Angels, so I guess it was just regular termies and a chappy; I'm assuming Death Company are elites? The other had just the dreadnought. Pretty sure I didn't remember it wrong, was one of my favorite battle reports to watch

I like something really cheap, a henchmen squad, scout marines, something like that.
It keeps it cheap enough where you have other threats so the SR doesn't draw all the fire; or if it does draw all the fire, you can afford to lose it and still have plenty of other potential on the table.

 jreilly89 wrote:

l3AK3D wrote:

 jreilly89 wrote:
I have seen them work extremely well, in one case it was 2 Stormravens, one with a Deathcompany termies and a chappy and the other with a Dread. It worked very well, but there were several games where it was immobilized, thus no assault drop.

I think they are great, but like everyone said, it is a giant bullseye.

Are you saying he took 5 terminators (which would take up 10 slots), a squad of death company, and a chaplain all in one storm raven? and then a dreadnought in the other?

A stormraven can only hold 12 models but ALONG with that it can hold a single dreadnought, and terminators take up 2 slots for transporting purposes. So either you're remembering it wrong or he set it up completely wrong.

Sorry, don't play Blood Angels, so I guess it was just regular termies and a chappy; I'm assuming Death Company are elites? The other had just the dreadnought. Pretty sure I didn't remember it wrong, was one of my favorite battle reports to watch

Naah Death Company are troops, I assume it was termis with a dreadnought then death company with the chaplain (or reclusiarch) because he makes death company re roll to hits and to wounds. What was the battle report I'd love to watch!

l3AK3D wrote:

 jreilly89 wrote:

l3AK3D wrote:

 jreilly89 wrote:
I have seen them work extremely well, in one case it was 2 Stormravens, one with a Deathcompany termies and a chappy and the other with a Dread. It worked very well, but there were several games where it was immobilized, thus no assault drop.

I think they are great, but like everyone said, it is a giant bullseye.

Are you saying he took 5 terminators (which would take up 10 slots), a squad of death company, and a chaplain all in one storm raven? and then a dreadnought in the other?

A stormraven can only hold 12 models but ALONG with that it can hold a single dreadnought, and terminators take up 2 slots for transporting purposes. So either you're remembering it wrong or he set it up completely wrong.

Sorry, don't play Blood Angels, so I guess it was just regular termies and a chappy; I'm assuming Death Company are elites? The other had just the dreadnought. Pretty sure I didn't remember it wrong, was one of my favorite battle reports to watch

Naah Death Company are troops, I assume it was termis with a dreadnought then death company with the chaplain (or reclusiarch) because he makes death company re roll to hits and to wounds. What was the battle report I'd love to watch!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-MszVw1emvQ

He's pretty awesome and has done a bunch of others.

You just need to change your tactics when using Storm Ravens. Drop-pod in some nastiness and take out the AA. Flamers + grenades for bastions, Aegis ect and melta for tanks .

Then your opponent has troops in his backfield they need to focus on while more pods and the Raven come in.