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I want to amend my question.

I am running an unbound Space Wolves wolf force using only Charcter mounted on Thunderwolves and Thunderwolf Cavalry along with Fenrisian Wolves. Considering the small force should I be using the storm shield for the invulnerable saves or am I over valuing it? With a toughness of 5 they can't be one shot. Is it better to mix within a unit of 3 Thunderwolves a plasma pistol/shield, CC weapon/shield, and a plasma pistol/cc weapon? Seems to me at this point that the shield gimps me a little considering I won't have the +1 attack on the charge and I lose the benefit of a CC weapon.

Thanks in advance.

These questions might be better asked in the Tactics Forum.

Indeed - off we go!

sorry about that. Thanks for placing me properly.

Just pointing out, T5 can be instagibbed by S10 or other Instant Death weapons (like Force Weapons or the Tellyporta Blasta/Shokk Attack Gun with certain rolls).

Overall, I definitely think a mix of shields and CCWs is the way to go. Don't know that I'd worry about plasma pistols all that much, given you REALLY want that unit in CC.

I usually run three TWC, two each have a storm shield and the third has a powerfist. It's been really effective for me since my opponents seem to not like my TWC and shoot at them alot. Depending on the army I'm up against I have yet to not make it into combat and being that they get five attacks each on the charge, I haven't met anything that lasted more than a round with the exception of a friend's thirty something strong Guard blob that he threw in my face and even then I was wrecking face pretty hard.

I wouldn't bother with any range attacks, TWC aren't meant to trade shots, if you're worried about overwatch, that's why the shields are in the front.

Thanks guys. That makes a lot of sense going straight CC. I guess I was fixated on getting shots off before the charge. Do you think that the frost sword is the way to go with the added strength bonus? I thought I should stay away from unweildy weapons but I will definitely put in a power fist as well. I've never used Thunderwolves before so I appreciate the advice.

Frost swords are good if you don't mind using the points. I use a powerfist because most things are either going to get squished thanks to strength 10 and it means I can open up transports to get at the juicy morsels inside.

 Thorgrim Bloodcrow wrote:
Frost swords are good if you don't mind using the points. I use a powerfist because most things are either going to get squished thanks to strength 10 and it means I can open up transports to get at the juicy morsels inside.

For the cost a single power fist, five models can have meltabombs.

I am probably going to be going with Storm Shields and Power Lances. That gives me a relatively cheep S6 [7 with FC] AP3 Rending Attacks on the Assault not going off on I1.

 obsidiankatana wrote:

 Thorgrim Bloodcrow wrote:
Frost swords are good if you don't mind using the points. I use a powerfist because most things are either going to get squished thanks to strength 10 and it means I can open up transports to get at the juicy morsels inside.

For the cost a single power fist, five models can have meltabombs.

True but then you need five models (which I don't have) and then if one of those models go down, you're down to four. Plus once those bombs are used, that's it, they're gone. The way I do it is let the SS TWC soak up the shots coming at them and then I get five powerfist attacks on the charge and four for any round of combat I'm in plus rending. So for the cost of three models vs five, I get just as many attacks with the option to get more of those attacks afterwards should any of those fail for some reason.

They... aren't gone. Meltabombs don't disappear after you use them. But my point is that three TWC each with a meltabomb is just as effective (more so in the case of LRs) at peeling transports than a fist, and ensures that losing one model doesn't leave you high and dry.

I will agree that the fist is better for straight up combat.

Yes, sorry, I meant that you only get the one attack and then you're done that turn. I don't know why that seemed to make sense in my head the way it did.

But for the most part, I use the fist in combat against big, scary things rather than transport hunting. That's why I use one.

 Anpu42 wrote:
I am probably going to be going with Storm Shields and Power Lances. That gives me a relatively cheep S6 [7 with FC] AP3 Rending Attacks on the Assault not going off on I1.

What will you be using for lances? Is the benefit of using a lance the 5 points saving as opposed to the Frost sword?

 Forlorn wrote:

 Anpu42 wrote:
I am probably going to be going with Storm Shields and Power Lances. That gives me a relatively cheep S6 [7 with FC] AP3 Rending Attacks on the Assault not going off on I1.

What will you be using for lances?

I have been using Grey Knight Halberds.

And something about the Krack Grenades/Melta-Bombs, they become Rending.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Forlorn wrote:
What will you be using for lances? Is the benefit of using a lance the 5 points saving as opposed to the Frost sword?

It will save me about 25 points a Pack or lets you pay for the Melta-Bombs

I may have to do that too. Not only for the cool factor but the fact it's a cost savings over the sword. Excellent idea good sir!

 Forlorn wrote:
I may have to do that too. Not only for the cool factor but the fact it's a cost savings too over the sword. Excellent idea good sir!

Of course I totally destroyed my savings by giving all of them Storm Shields

Any thoughts on taking a thunder hammer? I think they're pretty well covered between the lance and the melta bombs.

 Forlorn wrote:
Any thoughts on taking a thunder hammer? I think they're pretty well covered between the lance and the melta bombs.

Nothing wrong with them, I just would not put them on the Character, I would go with the Lance, Mace or Frost Sword.

Here is my TWC Unit [or how it will be after some remodeling.

Thunder Wolf Cavalry
>+3 TWC
>6x Storm Shields
>5x Power Lance
>1x Frost Sword
Total: 425 Points

Any thought on weapons for a Wolf Lord on a Thunderwolf? The sword is nice because you do get that extra +1 str even when you aren't charging. Now I am searching for grey knight halberds!

 Forlorn wrote:
Any thought on weapons for a Wolf Lord on a Thunderwolf? The sword is nice because you do get that extra +1 str even when you aren't charging. Now I am searching for grey knight halberds!

Well I like the Sword or the Mace if you want to strike at I5.
If it does not mater when you strike I would go Thunder Hammer.
One that has done well for me in 6th was Wolf Claw/Power Fist, then you have a choice of either 6x S6 AP3, I5, Shredding, Rending Attacks or 6 S10 AP2, I1 Rending Attacks. For this one I would also look into The Armor of Russ and/or the Wulfen Stone.

Will do! Thanks!

Get iron priest on twc. They come with 2+ save 5 s10 ap1 attacks on the charge.

 pizzaguardian wrote:
Get iron priest on twc. They come with 2+ save 5 s10 ap1 attacks on the charge.

And can come with 4 Cyber-Meat Shields

That's what we call them now?

 pizzaguardian wrote:
That's what we call them now?

Since the 3rd edition book, Cyber since the 5th.

 Thorgrim Bloodcrow wrote:
I usually run three TWC, two each have a storm shield and the third has a powerfist. It's been really effective for me since my opponents seem to not like my TWC and shoot at them alot. Depending on the army I'm up against I have yet to not make it into combat and being that they get five attacks each on the charge, I haven't met anything that lasted more than a round with the exception of a friend's thirty something strong Guard blob that he threw in my face and even then I was wrecking face pretty hard.

I wouldn't bother with any range attacks, TWC aren't meant to trade shots, if you're worried about overwatch, that's why the shields are in the front.

I agree with this, in a pack of three 2 SS and 1 PF. Put one SS on the Pack leader since he will be fielding challenges.

 obsidiankatana wrote:
They... aren't gone. Meltabombs don't disappear after you use them. But my point is that three TWC each with a meltabomb is just as effective (more so in the case of LRs) at peeling transports than a fist, and ensures that losing one model doesn't leave you high and dry.

I will agree that the fist is better for straight up combat.

Actually, three melta bombs will on average strip less hullpoints than 5 TWC powerfist attacks and ten strength 5 rending attacks on all vehicles, from AV10 to AV14.

5 strength 10 PF attacks+ 10 strength 5 rending attacks = ~ 5 HP's stripped on AV10, 4 HP's stripped on AV12 and 2 HP's stripped on AV14.

3 meltabomb attacks= ~ 2 HP's stripped on AV10, 2 HP's stripped on AV12 and 1 HP stripped on AV14.

Add onto that how effective PF's are in combat, and you find yourself in a situation where really the only advantage to ever taking meltabombs is that they cost 1/5th the price.

 BlaxicanX wrote:

 obsidiankatana wrote:
They... aren't gone. Meltabombs don't disappear after you use them. But my point is that three TWC each with a meltabomb is just as effective (more so in the case of LRs) at peeling transports than a fist, and ensures that losing one model doesn't leave you high and dry.

I will agree that the fist is better for straight up combat.

Actually, three melta bombs will on average strip less hullpoints than 5 TWC powerfist attacks and ten strength 5 rending attacks on all vehicles, from AV10 to AV14.

5 strength 10 PF attacks+ 10 strength 5 rending attacks = ~ 5 HP's stripped on AV10, 4 HP's stripped on AV12 and 2 HP's stripped on AV14.

3 meltabomb attacks= ~ 2 HP's stripped on AV10, 2 HP's stripped on AV12 and 1 HP stripped on AV14.

Add onto that how effective PF's are in combat, and you find yourself in a situation where really the only advantage to ever taking meltabombs is that they cost 1/5th the price. They're also half as effective against vehicles and useless in most combats.

I'd like to see the numbers on vehicle damage results given the AP difference between the Fist and the Bombs. Intuition tells me it will equalize somewhat given 3 AP1 attacks vs 5 AP2. And you'll note that losing the fist rather butchers your ability to peel transports, where if you lose a meltabomb model then he was no more important than the others in the squad. In a vacuum, yes, three connecting TWC with a fist outstrip three TWC with meltabombs. Realistically, if I'm you're enemy, I do everything possible to knock out the fist. Precision shooting, directional damage, etc. And if it's not your sergeant, no LoS.

What gives them the rending ability? I apologize but I've just gotten back into 40k. I don't see anywhere that TWC get rending attacks. Obviously I am missing something.


EDIT

Disregard! I see it now. The wolf gives rending! Yay for reading!