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Made in ca
Longtime Dakkanaut






Toronto

Remember the video game Fire Warrior (ps2)? It required you to beat a greater daemon of zeentech. A fire Warrior cannot beat a daemon! Fire Warriors cannot even beat a space marine and a daemon only has to glance at a space marine and he'd be vaporized! However, when you play the game, it's quite easy! How can this be happening? Any thoughts/thoughtful criticism welcome.

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Made in gb
Fresh-Faced New User




Breaking news!

Noah predicts flood , building boat

Really though, artistic licence and all that would have been a terrible game if you couldn't beat it.... Oh wait it was terrible anyway....
   
Made in ca
Longtime Dakkanaut






Toronto

Kaliban101 wrote:
Breaking news!

Noah predicts flood , building boat

Really though, artistic licence and all that would have been a terrible game if you couldn't beat it.... Oh wait it was terrible anyway....
Ahahahahaha!

Adepta Sororitas: 3,800 Points
Adeptus Custodes: 8,100 Points
Adeptus Mechanicus: 8,400 Points
Alpha Legion: 4,400 Points
Astra Militarum: 7,500 Points
Dark Angels: 16,800 Points
Imperial Knights: 12,500 Points
Legio Titanicus: 5,500 Points
Slaaneshi Daemons: 3,800 Points
 
   
Made in us
Stealthy Dark Angels Scout with Shotgun




New Orleans, LA

Don't forget the hundreds of Space Marines our lowly Fire Warrior mows down. I don't know why choose to use their artistic license in such a way. I always thought that however made the game didn't know much about the universe and just picked the coolest things for the Fire Warrior to fight.

Men have become tools of their tools.
 
   
Made in gb
Thunderhawk Pilot Dropping From Orbit





Now now, Fire Warrior does have a saving grace.. it gave us Rail Rifles

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/08/14 01:09:28


 
   
Made in gb
Lone Wolf Sentinel Pilot





UK

You're years late to this party, but anyway

Firewarrior, like pretty much every 40k game, makes little sense in the overall 40k lore, because developers need to bend the lore and themes, particularly the fact that any particular non-Chapter Master or above has a short life expectancy in sustained periods of combat, to make a game that actually works for various reasons, including to make it actually enjoyable, long lasting and with balance/variation.

In Firewarrior, you can wield Boltguns, Plasma/Melta guns, missile launchers and Burst Cannons while running full pelt. You kill hundreds of enemies, including CSM and Marines, Guardsmen, Daemons, a Lord of Change etc and I could go on for ages, it just doesn't begin to make anything that coherently fits in the universe. But in order to make that sort of on-rails 8 hour~ shooter that goes through different environments and enemies that was basically mandatory.

In DOW1, the Captain tells the Inquisitor where to stick it when talking about leaving the world. In WA, only one regiment is deployed and subsequently liberates an entire world, as in potentially in DC and... the other one. That's to make things much simpler (despite making no sense when you think about it) on the developers. In WA in fact, there's a power alliance with no teef involved between Orks and Chaos that doesn't particularly make sense. This is so there is a "good" and "evil" pair of factions so the dual/choose your faction semi-finale works.

Nevermind the fact that in DC, and "the other one" all Imperial forces get hammered and attack each for no particularly good reason, mostly for balance in the campaign. Also, in the game I refuse to name, at one point an Imperial Guard General loses a regiment of 50 Baneblades down to presumably munitorum incompetence. Sisters of Battle literally acknowledge before battle that by standing near a shrine they are invincible. (a game mechanic in that stronghold mission)

In DOW2, Captain Thule's weapon of choice is a Heavy Bolter, (more weird than probably prohibited) some no-name idiot "commander" hairgel has a company that only ever deploys about 10% of its strength to each battle, yet is essentially responsible for defeating a simultaneous Ork Waaagh, Tyranid invasion, Eldar incursion and not long after, heretic rebellion/CSM incursion. Followed by all 4 again, all at once, in Retribution.

In Space Marine... well. Its so far off the mark the developers declared it officially a parallel universe as I remember. Just as a taster, there is 1 man army syndrome though not quite as bad as FW,a Marine immune to the warp, and a Space Marine extreme threat response force composed of.... 3 guys.

This message was edited 5 times. Last update was at 2014/08/14 01:29:47


 
   
Made in au
Anti-Armour Swiss Guard






Newcastle, OZ

You can kill a valkyrie with an autogun in FW.

Yes, it takes a few shots - but a valk in 40k is pretty much immune to a S3 hit.


I'm OVER 50 (and so far over everyone's BS, too).
Old enough to know better, young enough to not give a ****.

That is not dead which can eternal lie ...

... and yet, with strange aeons, even death may die.
 
   
Made in us
Pyromaniac Hellhound Pilot






Schrott

Its referred to as the "Protaganist" or "Player Character" Syndrome.

It wouldn't matter if you were a Grot, if the Grot is the main character and the player character they will be able to kill titans with their little scrap guns.

A more reasonable example is Captain Titus, hes the player character, hence his ability to singlehandedly stop both and Ork AND Chaos invasion practically all by himself. But he's also a Space Marine Captain and an all around badass.

Oh and in Space marine it wasn't 3 marines that responded, supposedly there were others in other areas who you never saw but occasionally talked too over the vox, heck other space marines show up as well (including the blood ravens, Relics favorite space marines). But still the whole idea of the game is to feel POWERFUL like well... a Space Marine. Even if of course on the table top it would take the Luck of the Gods for a single space marine captain to annihilate an ork Waaagh and entire chaos warband by himself, melee or otherwise.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/08/14 07:29:49


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Made in ca
Commander of the Mysterious 2nd Legion





that said I was kind of hoping that the 6th ed marine codex would give us the vengence launcher

Opinions are not facts please don't confuse the two 
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut




Personally I always liked the fact that the Tau pulse weaponry was weaker than virtually every Imperial weapon you could pick up (including the lasgun and autogun)

I still remember getting the burst cannon, burning an entire clip to kill the first CSM I encountered, then swapping to the bolter he dropped and not looking back until the LoC (where it was weirdly effective).
   
Made in de
Decrepit Dakkanaut





Technically, he could kill the demon though as GW changed the wound tables to be able to wound everything with everything in..uh...5th?

   
Made in ca
Longtime Dakkanaut






Toronto

Still... A bolster is better than a rail rifle or missile launcher?!

Adepta Sororitas: 3,800 Points
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Made in us
Tunneling Trygon






 Engine of War wrote:
Its referred to as the "Protaganist" or "Player Character" Syndrome.

It wouldn't matter if you were a Grot, if the Grot is the main character and the player character they will be able to kill titans with their little scrap guns.



No, it really is called Main Character Syndrome. Happens in shows all the time. Gundam is rich with it. A 14 year old kid does things an entire military can't. The show 24 is ripe with it for a ridiculous amount of seasons. Die Hard is another. Not just in video games so it's main character.

But, the book Fire warrior is much better, especially about the Greater Daemon bit. The book has Kais destroying conduits, not the daemon itself. Still a bunch of kills in the ships and on the ground, but much more muted in the book than the ridiculous bits to make the game entertaining for players. The Spawn is killed by breaking it's spine after weapons get knocked away and a hole is blown through it with the rail rifle. It's all much more narrative than 'shot the enemy a bunch of times'.
   
Made in ca
Longtime Dakkanaut






Toronto

 SharkoutofWata wrote:
 Engine of War wrote:
Its referred to as the "Protaganist" or "Player Character" Syndrome.

It wouldn't matter if you were a Grot, if the Grot is the main character and the player character they will be able to kill titans with their little scrap guns.



No, it really is called Main Character Syndrome. Happens in shows all the time. Gundam is rich with it. A 14 year old kid does things an entire military can't. The show 24 is ripe with it for a ridiculous amount of seasons. Die Hard is another. Not just in video games so it's main character.

But, the book Fire warrior is much better, especially about the Greater Daemon bit. The book has Kais destroying conduits, not the daemon itself. Still a bunch of kills in the ships and on the ground, but much more muted in the book than the ridiculous bits to make the game entertaining for players. The Spawn is killed by breaking it's spine after weapons get knocked away and a hole is blown through it with the rail rifle. It's all much more narrative than 'shot the enemy a bunch of times'.
that's nice

Adepta Sororitas: 3,800 Points
Adeptus Custodes: 8,100 Points
Adeptus Mechanicus: 8,400 Points
Alpha Legion: 4,400 Points
Astra Militarum: 7,500 Points
Dark Angels: 16,800 Points
Imperial Knights: 12,500 Points
Legio Titanicus: 5,500 Points
Slaaneshi Daemons: 3,800 Points
 
   
Made in us
Novice Knight Errant Pilot





Baltimore

Realy it's called 'welcome to every FPS ever.' because someone always complains about how your dude is able to plow through thousands of whatever, and how unrealistic that is.
Games like 'Sniper Elite' try and play it close to realistically, at least in terms of how easy it is to kill you back, but it's always going to be a narrative problem that occurs because you've got your character doing stuff.

 
   
Made in at
Slashing Veteran Sword Bretheren






 Mr.Omega wrote:
You're years late to this party, but anyway

Firewarrior, like pretty much every 40k game, makes little sense in the overall 40k lore, because developers need to bend the lore and themes, particularly the fact that any particular non-Chapter Master or above has a short life expectancy in sustained periods of combat, to make a game that actually works for various reasons, including to make it actually enjoyable, long lasting and with balance/variation.

In Firewarrior, you can wield Boltguns, Plasma/Melta guns, missile launchers and Burst Cannons while running full pelt. You kill hundreds of enemies, including CSM and Marines, Guardsmen, Daemons, a Lord of Change etc and I could go on for ages, it just doesn't begin to make anything that coherently fits in the universe. But in order to make that sort of on-rails 8 hour~ shooter that goes through different environments and enemies that was basically mandatory.

In DOW1, the Captain tells the Inquisitor where to stick it when talking about leaving the world. In WA, only one regiment is deployed and subsequently liberates an entire world, as in potentially in DC and... the other one. That's to make things much simpler (despite making no sense when you think about it) on the developers. In WA in fact, there's a power alliance with no teef involved between Orks and Chaos that doesn't particularly make sense. This is so there is a "good" and "evil" pair of factions so the dual/choose your faction semi-finale works.

Nevermind the fact that in DC, and "the other one" all Imperial forces get hammered and attack each for no particularly good reason, mostly for balance in the campaign. Also, in the game I refuse to name, at one point an Imperial Guard General loses a regiment of 50 Baneblades down to presumably munitorum incompetence. Sisters of Battle literally acknowledge before battle that by standing near a shrine they are invincible. (a game mechanic in that stronghold mission)

In DOW2, Captain Thule's weapon of choice is a Heavy Bolter, (more weird than probably prohibited) some no-name idiot "commander" hairgel has a company that only ever deploys about 10% of its strength to each battle, yet is essentially responsible for defeating a simultaneous Ork Waaagh, Tyranid invasion, Eldar incursion and not long after, heretic rebellion/CSM incursion. Followed by all 4 again, all at once, in Retribution.

In Space Marine... well. Its so far off the mark the developers declared it officially a parallel universe as I remember. Just as a taster, there is 1 man army syndrome though not quite as bad as FW,a Marine immune to the warp, and a Space Marine extreme threat response force composed of.... 3 guys.



best post ever.

Though I think that Space Marine comes closer to the lore-friendly movie marine depiction than the tabletop. Yes, 3 marines (hell, 1 captian) can indeed take out 30 boys and 20 gretchin, and not the other way round like on tabletop.

btw. is there any place you can still get the Firewarrior book?

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/08/14 17:02:43


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Made in us
Gore-Soaked Lunatic Witchhunter




Seattle

Movie Marines aren't particularly lore-friendly (which is why they are called Movie Marines), but I digress...

The Tau in Fire Warrior is small, blue and wrapped in metal and plastic.

He is the Little (Tau) Engine That Could.

btw. is there any place you can still get the Firewarrior book?


Try this place, largest used bookstore on the planet, afaik:

www.powells.com

It is best to be a pessimist. You are usually right and, when you're wrong, you're pleasantly surprised. 
   
Made in gb
Prophetic Blood Angel Librarian




 Portugal Jones wrote:
Realy it's called 'welcome to every FPS ever.' because someone always complains about how your dude is able to plow through thousands of whatever, and how unrealistic that is.
Games like 'Sniper Elite' try and play it close to realistically, at least in terms of how easy it is to kill you back, but it's always going to be a narrative problem that occurs because you've got your character doing stuff.


Too right! Sniper elite is awsome like that. The first 'realistic' FPS' s had to be tom clancys rainbow six (original) and the delta force franchise. I used to be addicted to R6 Vegas and Vegas 2 on the 360. They were far more realistic than most FPS' s.
   
Made in us
Slashing Veteran Sword Bretheren






Well the most realistic fighting game would have to be any of the Dynasty Warrior games. I mean, they portray how these legendary leaders won battles at that time almost exactly. And it was documented that each general had a scribe specifically for his mid-battle kill-count.

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Made in gb
Prophetic Blood Angel Librarian




Haha. Wasn't all that bad for a hack and slash. Hunting down enemy heros to break enemy formations was fun... for about an hour.
   
Made in gb
Hallowed Canoness





Between

Not to mention that Kais had a sword. A freaking Katana!

What kind of self-respecting Fire Tau carries something as barbaric as a melee weapon?!

What kind of barbaric melee weapon is MORE EFFECTIVE than a pulse rifle?!?!



"That time I only loaded the cannon with powder. Next time, I will fill it with jewels and diamonds and they will cut you to shrebbons!" - Nogbad the Bad. 
   
Made in us
Tunneling Trygon






 Furyou Miko wrote:
Not to mention that Kais had a sword. A freaking Katana!

What kind of self-respecting Fire Tau carries something as barbaric as a melee weapon?!

What kind of barbaric melee weapon is MORE EFFECTIVE than a pulse rifle?!?!


Fluff-wise, that's supposed to be an honor blade.
   
Made in au
Lady of the Lake






It's easier to accept the more crazy out of line lore as propaganda. Clearly this was made to intimidate Imperial forces for the Damocles Gulf crusade.

   
Made in us
Painlord Titan Princeps of Slaanesh





BrianDavion wrote:
that said I was kind of hoping that the 6th ed marine codex would give us the vengence launcher


I just wanted suicide bomber cultists. Imagine if you could load 10 up in a rhino and each has demolition charges strapped to their chests. That way they go off at initiative 3 instead of 1.
   
Made in gr
Sneaky Sniper Drone





 Portugal Jones wrote:
Realy it's called 'welcome to every FPS ever.' because someone always complains about how your dude is able to plow through thousands of whatever, and how unrealistic that is.
Games like 'Sniper Elite' try and play it close to realistically, at least in terms of how easy it is to kill you back, but it's always going to be a narrative problem that occurs because you've got your character doing stuff.


Exacly , its a FPS that is in W40K , complain for that is like complain why in COD series you can live after so many bullets hited and why character never has a mental breakdown ( actualy this maybe the only problem in FW a firewarior could never do this things whithout a Ethereal near , Tau vaule their lives, they would stay and fight in imposible odds whith no reason)

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/08/16 17:17:45


 
   
Made in gb
Stabbin' Skarboy





armagedon

Meh... I'm cool with it. Most 'real world' games see you shot in the face as many times as you like as long as you crouch behind a box or wall until you no longer see red....

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Made in il
Warplord Titan Princeps of Tzeentch






Actually, Fire Warrior is CANNON, its not only "main character syndrome", and not propaganda. if anything, the ethreals are trying to silence this, for good reasons.

The only reason it makes sense in-universe, is the fact Kais had an abnormal warp presence for a tau. so abnormal, that khorne himself decided to screw around with him for amusement and to see what he can do with a tau.
The result was practically a beserker with a semi-functional tactical mind and a favoring to blowing things up with big guns (far bigger than a non-warped tau can even wield unassisted) who butchered every mortal foe he faced as nobody had quite that level of assistance behind them, and eventually ran into a lord of change that WANTED to "lose" (very in-character for them), when khorne eventually got bored he just left his toy alone, broken and insane. he was put in a mental ward after the events of the game.

can neither confirm nor deny I lost track of what I've got right now. 
   
Made in gr
Sneaky Sniper Drone





 BoomWolf wrote:
Actually, Fire Warrior is CANNON, its not only "main character syndrome", and not propaganda. if anything, the ethreals are trying to silence this, for good reasons.

The only reason it makes sense in-universe, is the fact Kais had an abnormal warp presence for a tau. so abnormal, that khorne himself decided to screw around with him for amusement and to see what he can do with a tau.
The result was practically a beserker with a semi-functional tactical mind and a favoring to blowing things up with big guns (far bigger than a non-warped tau can even wield unassisted) who butchered every mortal foe he faced as nobody had quite that level of assistance behind them, and eventually ran into a lord of change that WANTED to "lose" (very in-character for them), when khorne eventually got bored he just left his toy alone, broken and insane. he was put in a mental ward after the events of the game.

and now all make sence
so its better explanation than COD series
   
 
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