Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

So with the new hellfrost rule for some of the Space Wolf stuff making models that suffer an unsaved wound pass a strength test or be removed, normally this wouldn't be relevant for 1-wound targets cause the 1 unsaved wound kills them anyway. But what about Necron warriors with reanimation protocols? Could you force the dudes lying on the floor to pass a strength test and failure insta-gibs them to prevent reanimation?

Fluff wise it would make sense because their remains can get frozen to buggery just like anything else, but fluff rarely matches RAW!

Thoughts?

If it says they are removed as casualties then they would get a re animation roll.

Fragile wrote:
If it says they are removed as casualties then they would get a re animation roll.

Thats not what I mean. I mean should they take the strength test in the first place? Do necron models which have been downed and waiting for reanimation count as still in play so would be subject to helfrost?

In answer to your statement though, helfrost states removed from play so they shouldn't get reanimation if they die from helfrost.

Exact wording:

Helfrost - If a model suffers one or more unsaved wounds from this weapon, it must pass a separate Strength test for each wound suffered or be removed from play

I suppose this is another "order of play" question.

Dead Necrons are removed and replaced with RP counters.
Is the model removed as a casualty before it has to make the strength check? RP counters of course don't have to make stat checks.

Models that are 'Removed from play' are considered to have been removed as casualties. Pg 13 in the Dark Vengeance rule book.

Necrons that have been downed and wait for their RP roll are no longer "in" the game. Even if models are just lying on the side, the model itself has already been removed from play.

 Diggory_x wrote:
helfrost states removed from play so they shouldn't get reanimation if they die from helfrost.

RFP == RFPaaC now. So they've been removed as a casualty and you're trying to remove them again... which will just let them make RP rolls.
In short, it's irrelevant.

 Diggory_x wrote:

Fragile wrote:
If it says they are removed as casualties then they would get a re animation roll.

Thats not what I mean. I mean should they take the strength test in the first place? Do necron models which have been downed and waiting for reanimation count as still in play so would be subject to helfrost?

In answer to your statement though, helfrost states removed from play so they shouldn't get reanimation if they die from helfrost.

Exact wording:

Helfrost - If a model suffers one or more unsaved wounds from this weapon, it must pass a separate Strength test for each wound suffered or be removed from play

Necrons get to reanimate when removed from play

necrons do not get to reanimate when they are removed from play... jaws of the world wolf was the bane of necron characters for the longest time when the faq came out. GW has made it very apparent that removed from play (game mechanic) is not the same as removed as a casualty (wounded out).

 WarlordRob117 wrote:
necrons do not get to reanimate when they are removed from play... jaws of the world wolf was the bane of necron characters for the longest time when the faq came out. GW has made it very apparent that removed from play (game mechanic) is not the same as removed as a casualty (wounded out).

Welcome to 7th...

Models that are ‘removed from play’ by special rules or attacks are also considered to have been removed as casualties, as far as the game rules are concerned

thanks for that...

its funny that you said something different earlier

Fragile wrote:
If it says they are removed as casualties then they would get a re animation roll.

I do not have the SW codex so had no idea what Helfrost does. The statement I made here is true. Once it was clarified that Helfrost said "removed from play", the rules treat RfP the same as RaaC, therefore that answer still applies.

WarlordRob117 wrote:thanks for that...

its funny that you said something different earlier

Fragile wrote:If it says they are removed as casualties then they would get a re animation roll.

And how is that different?

Helfrost cannot trigger on models with 1 wound, because if they suffer 1 wound they go from 1-0 and are removed from play.

its the same reason dark eldar hex rifles do not trigger off 1 wound models, the model has to suffer a wound before it works and 1 wound models are removed from play for going from 1-0 wounds from the suffered wound.

Had a read of the cron dex and the wording of reanimation protocols makes it sound like the majority of you guys are right and helfrost wont have any interaction with reanimation protocols.

Yet another example of how much reanimation protocols is total crap. Only thing in the game where bog standard infantry can ignore instant death. Sorry - bit of personal bias - I hate crons!

Thanks for the responses.

Just melee and sweeping advance them...you're a Space Wolves player, go play like one >:O

Why all the hate about Necrons? I never get it...

copper.talos wrote:
Why all the hate about Necrons? I never get it...

The lovely Oldcron/Trucron stuff and getting up when you take casualties.

copper.talos wrote:
Why all the hate about Necrons? I never get it...

Abilities that sound overpowered (unless you do the math in which case they are okay)

They have the only hard counter to invisibility and the cron player in my group played them with 4+ reanimation protocols and bought his special characters wargear, he was a bit daft.

If you ever played against a Necron with a Tomb Citadel, you may truly hate Necrons

So Necrons get to reanimate against Stomp attacks rolling 6s then?

 WrentheFaceless wrote:
So Necrons get to reanimate against Stomp attacks rolling 6s then?

Yes. Why wouldn't they?

rigeld2 wrote:

 WrentheFaceless wrote:
So Necrons get to reanimate against Stomp attacks rolling 6s then?

Yes. Why wouldn't they?

Because it removes the model from play? Skips the wound step and takes them straight off the table? Is that what Reanimation allows? Im not that familiar with crons...

Removed from play is the same as being removed as a casualty.

I can't think of a lot of cases where WBB is denied, Death or Glory! comes to my mind, because the BRB explicitely states that WBB may not be taken against it.

/e: I'm a mofo robot ninja.

 WrentheFaceless wrote:

rigeld2 wrote:

 WrentheFaceless wrote:
So Necrons get to reanimate against Stomp attacks rolling 6s then?

Yes. Why wouldn't they?

Because it removes the model from play? Skips the wound step and takes them straight off the table? Is that what Reanimation allows? Im not that familiar with crons...

Removed from play is the same as removed as a casualty. There's literally no difference in being stomped off and being shot off the board - except the latter allows FNP (usually).

Yes, it's basically anything except for that Damnos-formation that has an anti-RP Special Ammunition.

Hmm thats really good O.o

Nah, not really.
Balance-wise I would agree with a gigantic point-drop and the loss of RP.
But that would kill the fluff for me.

From another thread:

Reanimation Protocol:
It sounds very strong, but people tend to forget Necrons pay 13 points for that.
Comparing that to Fire Warriors, Ork Boyz or Space Marines makes them look less 'OP'.
Against a wound with AP5 a Necron Warrior has a 65% chance of surviving.
A Tactical Marine has a 66% chance of survival, and for only 3 additional points they have much better rules, more power in melee, the option to take Heavy Weapons and protection from AP4.

I don't even want to make the comparison to Fire Warriors, because that would get sad.

@sigvatr this edition allows RP after a failed death or glory