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I have a friend. I say a friend. He remains a friend until he pulls his army out. His list is disgusting to face. And I know for a fact my new wolves list is going to be very difficult to beat him with. His lost in its basic form is farsight, 3 crisis suits with plasma, 3 crisis suits with fusion, 2 riptides with ions, interceptor and sky fire. 2 broadsides with HYMP, a farseer, 3 jetbikes and a wraithknight.

Anyhow, whilst attempting to build this army, I stumbled across the majority of an old ish army.... Namely a fateweaver, Lord of change, 2 daemons prices and some pink horrors. And it got me thinking. This army could teach him a lesson. If I can stay in the air behind cover his riptides have to do all the work. Meanwhile I should be able to pump out a stupid number of objective secured troops. If I'm lucky, one of those troops might be able to summon things like a blood thirster. I'm thinking if I can spend 2-3 turns to flood the board with daemons then he won't stand a chance.

Any thoughts?

just a note, summoned unit dont have Objective Secured, as they are not part of your CAD

No. This is a terrible idea. In fact this is one of the few daemon lists that loses to Tau (daemons are naturally a hard counter to tau)

Daemon Flying Circus sucks against tau, especially in 7ed. Tau have so much fire support that they can easily kill a 4-5 wound MC even with swooping thanks to the amount of high strength shots and markerlights they get. Also FMCs can't charge on the turn they switch flight modes, can't score while flying, and Daemons FMCs don't get guns so while swooping they are completely ignoreable as they will be doing nothing of note except cast conjuration powers. If you ground them so that they can charge they die while standing there waiting for their chance to charge you.

And the summoning part is even worse. You need roughly 7 dice to attempt to summon a unit (and it isn't even great odds at that) so with all the FMCs you bought even with some pink horrors you'll only be managing 2-3 summons a turn. Thats not a lot. Also all the units you summon are fragile MSU units that die to a stiff breeze so will die on the turn they arrive (which is before they do any damage also because you can't assault on deep strike). Considering that all your FMCs will be flying and be completely ignoreable there will be no reason to not shoot the 200-300 pts of daemons just sitting there like an easy target. Also sumoned units don't get objective secured. They are a part of a Combined Arms or Allied detachment and thats what gives it so they can't even contest OS scored objectives. Literally nothing in this list is good against Tau.

If you really need to beat him just take Be'lakor, Flesh Hounds and Soul Grinders. Grinders are basically immune to everything except Melta and S10 and can mash everything. Hounds are a guaranteed second turn charge with an incredible point-to-wound ratio and they will be hard pressed to kill them before adding invisibility and grimoire. And Be'lakor gets around all the problems FMCs have by just casting invisibilty on himself so he can glide and still be unkillable plus has shrouded so jinks for a 2+ cover save. He also has fleshbane, armorbane and eternal warrior so can kill anything he touches.

Oh wow OK. That bad huh? Bad to drawing board then.

Try starting your list with 60 hounds of khorne and 3 naked slaanesh soulgrinders (to soak fire warrior overwatch). Then spend whatever points are left on the 'factory' part.

i usually find a single squad of horrors and maybe a herald (if needed as an HQ ) is a good summoning base, it is cheap as chips and gives you something to throw all your D6 free warp charges at. As soon as you are trying to cast more than 1 summon spell a turn you need to spam build around it (e.g. 30 heralds).

I don't have to worry about fire warriors. If you see my op you will see that his weight of fire isn't that great for tau. I'd like to keep fatey in there. His 4 warp charges alone are pretty tasty. So do people really think hounds and grinders are the way to go?

Well, I think it can be. There are Daemon armies out there with more than 30 WC in larger games.
The conjured Daemons are not objective secured but who cares. Tau could send out its Fire Warriors to hold objectives which are not behind the owh ADL. But this doesn't work.

OK, so you people have 1500 points. What would YOU do? Considering the army I will be facing listed above.

Frankly, I would unshelve my Eldar army:

Jetseer
2x 10 Dire Avengers w/ Serpents
10 Guardians w/ Serpent
2x 5 Fire Dragons w/ Serpents
3 Warwalkers w/ dual scatterlasers

All Serpents with tl scatterlaser, underslung shuricannon, holofield.

This blog is a great resource for daemon players and there is a current discussion on list building at 1500 pts.

http://daemons40k.blogspot.com/2014/08/building-at-1500-points.html#more

Actually, Daemon Summoning can and will own the gak out of Tau. You just have it wrong on what you are suppose to be summoning.

The basic spell is a investment in Warp Charge wtih 5 to 7 to ensure casting , but the Summoning spell isn't what you are going for.

You are rolling to get 1 spell off the chart.

Sacrifice.

Why?

Riptide LD 9
Broadsides LD 9
Pathfinder 8
Crisis Team LD 9
etc...

The big thing to remember is you can't cast conjuration spells after being summoned, everything else is fair game.

Tau have a gak leadership and also have no way to make a Riptide fearless as you can no longer join Riptides as before, actually I'm not sure about supplements. Anyway yea, Monstrous Creatures are not in fact automatically fearless. As far as I am still aware unless there is some supplement that gives them Fearless, they are not in fact fearless and I regularly Terrfiy them off the board.

You're going to be summoning Heralds of Slaanesh, w/ 1 Level in Telepathy in order to get Terrify and Psychic Shriek.

If you get Terrify cast it on Riptides and other squads, proceed to Psychic Shriek them to death as they get no cover and no armour save.

Most squads w/ be taking 2 LD tests at LD 8 and you can make that worse with other spells.

You also hit on a 2+ and reroll because of your ballistic w/ Psychic Shriek. You can also stack Maledictions on them with spells that cause them to take LD tests to pretty much do anything or you can go for the other spell on Slaanesh which really screws them over Cacophinic Roar and Pavane of Slaanesh.

Pavane can actually kill entire units and is a focused witchfire which means you get to pick the model.

If you don't get Terrify, take Psychic Shriek.

Also, intercept doesn't work on summoned Daemons it only happens in the movement Phase.

So your main force should be Heralds of Tzeentch in Screamer packs (allows for extra wounds to produce heralds of Slaanesh) and Heralds of Slaanesh themselves can be allied in.

With one Primary and one Ally (depending on your local which should allow allying with yourself, if not you can go with something else like CSM Crimson to get Sorcerers and Daemons to summon etc....).

The other thing is you shouldn't be summoning large packs of Daemons but instead more Screamers if you do use the summon spell.

So yeah your goal isn't to swarm them with Daemons you can do that but instead Swarm with mass Psychic Shriek and Terrify.

In 1500 , you can get something like 26 to 30 Warp Charge and still be a viable force but really 24 is fine. You'll get more Warp Charge as you summon

For odds?

Well Sacrifice is a 1 Warp Charge spell if you want a 75% chance or more use a CSM Sorcerer near a pack of Nurglings which by the way you can summon.

Anyway yeah it's not spamming units its spamming a specific unit and it's cheap to do. You can have a 2+ rerollable unit that just spams that over and over again. It's got a 12 inch then 18 inch range on the spell.

Now the next part is this depends on your Local area , but here at least people follow BAO or NOVA rules and Daemons actually get Psychic Focus as they're generating from one tree , so you don't even have to opt out just roll up on the chart to try to get Terrify or the myriad of other bad news spells for Tau in that tree. Possession also works as you can Select Keeper of Secrets who also rolls on Telepathy.

Also don't I don't know what your local is in regards to force org, but here at least we allow self ally. So in 1500 you can have something like 24 to 30 Warp Charge and still be Viable.

Oh I forgot to mention don't forget that Daemons of Slaanesh can in fact run after Summoning so it's pretty easy to get them out of LOS.

Once you have 3 or more Terrifies or just like 7 to 8 Heralds of Slaanesh w/ Shriek and are generating 3 Heralds or more a turn it's pretty much curtains. This is where it actually works to your advantage is target units that split fire first because you want to get rid of them first so each Herald w/ have to be targeted individually. You just keep flying around with your 2++ Rerollable (Your going to get Cursed Earth with that many rolls w/ Grimoire that makes them 2++). Summon Screamers if you have left over charge and Turbo Boost over units for 3D3 4 hits or Summon Flamers etc.. the Flamers are AP4.

With 4 Level 3 Tzeentch you should get at least 2 Sacrifices, with 4 Level 2 Heralds picking once on Malefic you should get at least 1 and 1 possession.

Anyway Daemon Summoning isn't about Overwhelming your opponent it's about picking the exact unit with the exact counter to what your opponent is playing, if 50 man fearless mobs Flamers of Tzeentch, if X - Y.

Oh Mass Psychic Shriek works on Bike Armies really well too.

Anyway yea for 1500 I'd prob go with

1 Blue Scribes
4 Heralds on Discs

2 Squads of Pink

Squad of Screamers

Ally

3 Herald Slaanesh on Steed

Pink Horror

F Attack
Steeds or multi wound Fiends work well.

Only wargear you need is Grimoire.

Any Left over I'd spend on just barebone Soul Grinders cause having Invisibility on them is hilarious and Slaanesh has a Level 1 Spell that causes them to not be able to overwatch.For the army the reason you want Blue Scribes is because just choose Telepathy and roll on it every time you'll get something good or roll on Malefic and auto summon something.

You don't need to take any big bad as you'll get possession and then you can just possess yourself for a Great Unclean One or Keeper.

I thought the blue scribes could pick their power? What's your thoughts on Be'Lakor as a viable unit against tau?

 Khaine's Wrath wrote:
I don't have to worry about fire warriors. If you see my op you will see that his weight of fire isn't that great for tau. I'd like to keep fatey in there. His 4 warp charges alone are pretty tasty. So do people really think hounds and grinders are the way to go?

Khorne Dogs are the shizl
.

In my experience Be'lkor kinda sucks against Tau since he only has a 4++, he gets ruined by SMS.

That said invisiblity is pretty awesome so if you can LOS him and fly him off the board if need be (after casting invisibility ofc) then he can be pretty good.

But what are you going to cast invisibility on? 20 flesh hounds or a soul grinder? why not just bring another 20 flesh hounds (320pts) or another 2 tooled up grinders instead?

 Khaine's Wrath wrote:
I thought the blue scribes could pick their power? What's your thoughts on Be'Lakor as a viable unit against tau?

They can't it's a random spell cast for free, they can't choose Primaris, but the chart for Telepathy is all insanely broken ,but the thing is their casting the spell for free and their 82 points. That's insane. They can even roll Possession on Malefic so you spent 82 points to get a 200+ point model. I mean 3 of the spells from Malefic , Sacrifice , Incursion, Possession are amazing to cast for free then the other spells are amazing as well. Stick them in your "unkillable" unit and just watch them Terrify, Shrouding, Invisibility etc.. away.

You use Screamers because of the wounds for sacrifice.

I mean you got a 33% chance to get a spell that makes the unit he's with that's already Grimoired 6s to hit or give something Shrouding, it's just one of the best disciplines every single spell is pretty excellent.


Belakor isn't strong against Tau , simply because of Marker Lights. I mean his big thing Shrouding , and the spell chart can be done away with in the first turn if he's not out of LOS. He's a easy kill for the Tau army who really don't care about your cover save. Now a 2++ rerollable unit, that can blast over Tau units with D3 ST4 hits, that's pretty powerful against Tau. Single though big monstrous , excepting maybe GUO who has the high toughness benefit are easy for Tau to kill.

A huge weakness of Tau is the not a lot of fearless, not very good leadership. So any of these " take leadership tests" spells really harm them especially if you're giving them negatives to their LD. I mean a Marker light squad or drones have LD 7, Psychic Shriek can just take out that whole unit.

I've straight up Turn 2 tabled Tau armies with triple riptide Psychic Shriek and Terrify Spam. With to 2 to 4 starting Heralds of Slaanesh, plus if you get 2 to 4 sacrifices it's such a low cost spell and then the subsequent spells are low cost as well you can cast Sacrifice 4 times with a 90% reliability (3 Warp charge) , and not have used 30 or 40% of your Warp Charge, then cast Terrify and other Psychic LD spells at them.

Use focused Witchfires that come with Slaanesh and Telepathy to take out anything that let's them reroll their LD or gives them a higher LD in the units.

Broadsides die easily to Psychic Shriek and you don't have to fear their huge super units.


Oh I should probably mention the other unit that kills them, Heralds of Nurgle come base with a AP2 TEMPLATE that wounds on 4+ which is pretty nice to use against those huge super units with like a gazillion drones etc..


The most powerful spell in Malefic isn't actually Possession, it's Sacrifice. Oh you mean for One Charge and a wound I get to summon a Chariot Herald, or a Herald that shots off ST6 2D6 shots or a AP2 Template or a ST6 Beam or etc.. etc... and I can summon that then immediately do that ? Awesome. Oh and let's not forget it gets 30 points of options, Need a unit that is Armour dead? Summon a Herald and take one lesser and one greater gift odds are your going get something that is useful. Oh is that a vehicle Squadron, Ok I'm going to summon and then take 3 Lesser Gifts to try and roll up a Template that's ST5 Armourbane. What's that I can summon to rear armour?

My huge problem is people don't actually know how to play Daemon Summon armies, and think you need to summon mass troops to win when the most powerful spell is actually 1 Warp Charge with like a solution to almost everything in the game.

OK, some interesting ideas coming up here. Things I hadn't really thought of to instant beat tau. Some things i will even look to incorporate into other armies. Having only really played flying circus or khorne daemons, I'm still struggling to build a list.

The biggest disadvantage to playing a Daemon army is in fact the actual real world cost to play one. You can get by though by model conversions etc..

For a 1500 , Daemon Summoning and this off the top of my head, with allowing self ally I'd do something like.


Blue Scribes (Warlord)
Herald of Tzeentch LVL 3, Disc,
Herald Of Tzeentch LVL 3, Disc Portaglyph
Herald of Tzeentch, Lvl 3, Grimoire, Disc
Herald of Tzeentch, Lvl 3, Disc
Total : 591

Could take some Lesser Gifts for Aetherblade or Staff. Remember Blue Scribes auto cast, so picking Telepathy or Telekinesis are great choices. Telekinesis especially is a great tree that's not really available to the Daemon army very readily and has some great spells in it but I'd consistently choose Telepathy as almost all the spells in that are great.

Troops
16 Pink Horrors , Icon / Musician
16 Pink Horrors ]



This probably should be broken down into 3 units of 12 same warp charge more rolls on Malefic which is probably a better choice. Depends if you want a big unit to camp a objective or multiple smaller units. Icon and Musician is good for Deep Striking if that's a choice you have and one of the units gets Possession, you should deep strike and try to get that off immediately w/ a GUO or a KOS as your go to.
Total 304

Fast Attack
6 Screamers
Total 150

Could use some more screamers


Ally
Herald of Slaanesh Level 2 , Steed ( Gives the outflank ability)
Herald of Slaanesh Level 2

Could do with 1 more Herald

Total 205

Troop
15 Daemonettes 140 ( Normally I'd go with Seekers if higher point values)

Could do with more Daemonettes, but really this unit will kill anything in the Tau army in HtH already. Could use a Icon or such.

Aegis Defense Line Comm Relay 70
Not absolutely neccessary , but nice to have depending on terrain etc..

Total Warp Charge : 22 + 1 more on the first turn w/ Portaglyph, + D6

Could probably chance it going down to 20 Warp charge, and saving points in the army somewhere but stay in the 19 to 22 Warp Charge Range, it's the lowest you'll want to go. You'll get more Warp Charge by summoning.

Statistically Odds, w/ almost 14 rolls on the Malefic with just Tzeentch, your odds are about 90% on getting 2 Sacrifices you may get more you may get less, if yu get less you can always try to get it with the Heralds of Slaanesh. More rolls more chances, Every about 5 to 6 rolls is a like 90% chance to get the spell but you really want your Tzeentch rolling on Malefic and your Slaanesh rolling on Telepathy.

Total 1460 and leaves some room to adjust according. You don't desperately need the Comm Relay but it's nice to have. Could probably drop it and add more Daemonettes and Screamers Prob nother Herald of Slaanesh.

You're most likely going to get Invisibility and prob a Cursed Earth so 6s to hit then a 4++ is gonna help the Slaanesh. I'd worry about Alpha Strike and Backfield Barrage , but if it was straight up against Tau. I probably wouldn't worry to much.

Also, Grimoire can be used Any time during the movement phase, which is funny because Outflanking then having them go I intercept and you respond by saying okay I grimoire that unit is pretty keen.

Make sure reroll Warlord trait trying to get the reroll on the Warp Storm.

In a Tournament setting I'd be a little worried about the Warp Storm as the likelyhood of rolling that double 1 is about a 9% chance each game. Mitigated by the fact you can reroll your Warlord trait to try and get the reroll yourself on them.

In a one off just against Tau, with 3 Riptides in 1500 your looking at a 600 point + investment. So that leaves 900 or so left over so they probably won't be huge numbers. At low points as well summoning is really powerful. You just really need one unit summoned a turn to really win the game and overwhelm them because it's way more advantageous, especially if you get 2 or 3 Possession that pushes your points into the 2K+ range versus a 1500 point army.

Low points , especially leans toward Summoning only 1 to 2 big units a turn, I'd personally go for Hounds or Screamers . If you approach it like " They're playing 1500 , I'm playing 2000 " you are in good shape , mind frame wise and that's how you should think.

Game over for them is you getting 6 or More Heralds of Slaanesh. It's just too much, You get 6 Heralds and 2 to 3 units that's it, with the ability to get Invisibility or Shrouding plus the Grimoire to protect squads, they're shooting is going to be lacking.

Target their Drone Squads w/ Marker Lights w/ Shriek, that puts a huge hurt on the army.

If you really need to beat him just take Be'lakor, Flesh Hounds and Soul Grinders.

This x100.

Now that MCs took a hit to their smash attacks, my lists regularly take 3 soul ginders to deal with walkers/landraiders. They normally walk all over tau. They Tau will either have to suicide drop fusion suits, or have invested in a hammer head (which with its single shot is not all that potent) to take them out. Slaanesh/Torrent is my preferred loadout.

I would advise against using a flying circus list. That ship has sailed. 7th edition did innumerable things to prevent its continued use in competitive play.

I don't agree with taking Belakor against Tau over taking like 3 Heralds of Slaanesh, but I agree with the soul grinders.

Soul Grinders are just such a powerful unit.

Hollismason wrote:
I don't agree with taking Belakor against Tau over taking like 3 Heralds of Slaanesh, but I agree with the soul grinders.

Soul Grinders are just such a powerful unit.

I would take be'lakor and heralds. Be'lakor is so powerful through providing guaranteed shrouding and invisibility (though admittedly he doesn't like SMS very much), whilst the heralds provide very meaningful buffs to their cavalry/hound units.

OK, when I'm not working I'll throw a list together. Could you guys take a look at it for me? Let me know what you think and how close to/off the mark I am...

 Big Blind Bill wrote:

Hollismason wrote:
I don't agree with taking Belakor against Tau over taking like 3 Heralds of Slaanesh, but I agree with the soul grinders.

Soul Grinders are just such a powerful unit.

I would take be'lakor and heralds. Be'lakor is so powerful through providing guaranteed shrouding and invisibility (though admittedly he doesn't like SMS very much), whilst the heralds provide very meaningful buffs to their cavalry/hound units.

Yeah I just think he's to heavy a point investment when playing against Tau when you got a pretty much guarantee with getting those Spells with Heralds for less points and more versatility. Not saying he's a bad unit just my preference is to not invest that much in 1500 because of that. If it was 1850 sure, I'd take him hands down. Just at that 1500 mark eh...... Little to much.

I mean sure he gives you those for 350 points, but you can literally lose him in 1 single turn and the first turn at that against Tau firing. He's not invincible and his buff of 2+ cover really doesn't matter to Tau.

So what's this lists effectiveness in general then? And not just against tau? Would it do well against most?

Also, if I was to build a variation on the list you provided, how would you play it? It's alright having the army, but if you don't km of how to use it it's pretty pointless..

At 1500 it's pretty effective against most armies, Heavy AV armies can give it trouble and Drop Pod lists can as well. Seerstar can be difficult but as their one unit you can dump what you can into getting rid of Invisibility or Fortune which they'll cast.It has enough Warp Charge to actually Deny at least 2 spells cast a turn if you dedicate 10 or more dice to stopping them which is why Taudar isn't super effective against it because you can stop their spells.

So prevent the Farseer from doing things is great like casting Fortune etc...In general I play the army aggressively to immediately put pressure on armies with summoned Heralds and units immediately then just turbo boosting away to grab objectives and ignoring and just avoiding "Deathstars" or tying them up with summoned units.

Against that specific Eldar and Tau I'd just focus on shutting down the Farseer and then Psychic Shrieking all those Crisis Units. A Daemonette Squad with Heralds can and will kill a Wraightknight especially if you take Beguilement, Psychic Scream works against it and theres nothing in the army specifically that I saw that can handle that large a CC squad especially with Shrouding or Invisibility. It looks like he has a small count army which is not good to play against summoning armies as Herald of Nurgle w/ their AP2 template and Heralds of Slaanesh with Psychic Shriek take care of most squads. Plus you just overwhelm them.

He has a Farseer but 3 Warp Charge and D6 isn't going to get you anywhere plus Psychic Shriek will kill a small unit like that.

As for how to play it. It really depends on what your playing against, Summoning armies can overwhelm or dissect a army so you just have to decide which is the best tactic to use. Against Small count armies , spells like Psychic Shriek are great. Against Large huge Mobbed armies, Flamers of Tzeentch are great to summon. 3 ST5 AP4 templates are great against those huge squads. Like I said it really depends on what you are playing against with a summoned army as you have to know which unit counters what.

Hollismason wrote:
Stick them in your "unkillable" unit and just watch them Terrify, Shrouding, Invisibility etc.. away.

You use Screamers because of the wounds for sacrifice.

I mean you got a 33% chance to get a spell that makes the unit he's with that's already Grimoired 6s to hit or give something Shrouding, it's just one of the best disciplines every single spell is pretty excellent.

Scribes are not independent character so cannot join units sadly. The best you can do is hide them out of line of sight.

Also I wouldn't rely on grimoire without fateweaver, in fact I would probably skip it completely if not bringing him,

So do you run the heralds as a squad or separately?

wtnind wrote:

Hollismason wrote:
Stick them in your "unkillable" unit and just watch them Terrify, Shrouding, Invisibility etc.. away.

You use Screamers because of the wounds for sacrifice.

I mean you got a 33% chance to get a spell that makes the unit he's with that's already Grimoired 6s to hit or give something Shrouding, it's just one of the best disciplines every single spell is pretty excellent.

Scribes are not independent character so cannot join units sadly. The best you can do is hide them out of line of sight.

Also I wouldn't rely on grimoire without fateweaver, in fact I would probably skip it completely if not bringing him,

I should have clarified but I join the Heralds to the Blue Scribes for a small unit of elite troops to grimoire or hide them out of LOS by turboboosting. I've never had any problems with Grimoire because the negative , the -1 get's made up for by the +1 from Cursed Earth so it's never been that huge of a deal. I've usually got Grimoire and or Invisibility up on that unit. It's pretty much a impossible to kill unit if you get Grimoire 2++ rerollable and need 6s to hit, I personally like to take Staffs and Aetherblades as well because in HtH it's not to shabby. You'd be surprised what that unit does to other units in CC even though people don't associate Tzeentch with HtH its not like their terrible units at CC. Shrouding gives that unit a 2+ cover save as well all you need to do is get near a psyker that has cast shrouding and you'll be summoning Heralds that roll to get it or Invisibility. It's usually a pointless endeavour to shoot at it , it's either got invisibility, got near something that has shrouding, or has a 2++ rerollable. The Same with the huge Daemonette squad, it's just annoying army because you have multiple ways to give units 2++ rerollable, or need 6s to hit or have shrouding etc.. etc..

Oh you can also always join summoned Heralds of Tzeentch the Scribes if you wish but really it's going to be a game that last like 3 turns. So you probably wont have time to summon them.

At higher point values I play Fateweaver but I'm not paranoid about rolling a 1 or 2 on Grimoire because the army has multiple ways to protect that unit and if it get's charged it can tarpit and summon HtH troops to charge in to assist. Also you can sacrifice to summon Heralds of Tzeentch on Discs to join the squad. If I were playing it in a tourney (which I don't play in, as I mostly play with my friends at home or their house) , I'd take him probably.


I join the Heralds to the Daemonettes or put them on Steeds and stick them with Seekers is usually how I play them. The individual ones if they don't get killed just run out of LOS and stay seperate to annoy my opponent as they have to dedicate firing all of one unit at them to kill it and their replenishable.

As for wargear for the Heralds, it's expensive unit but I like that it does have some HtH combat ability.

I play higher point values than 1500 as we like the 1850 to 2k range as it feels better.So usually have Soul Grinders with that army and that's just it "barebones". I've actually stopped playing the army pretty much because it isn't really a fun thing to play against and I like my games to be enjoyable not over in 3 turns also even at this point I'm still proxying with my Necrons for Daemons as it's a slowly build it army over time because it requires you to have so many extra units. It's not a army that's really a friendly game type army.

So how does daemons of tzeench work in 7th? In 6th they had a +3 modifier to their leadership. Does this transfer to anything on particular in 7th

It helps with passing Perils test but that's it.

Hollismason wrote:
It helps with passing Perils test but that's it.

Yeah that's what I thought. Sucks a little though. Couldn't find anything else in the FAQ.