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Barring any rules against Pre-Heresy models, does anyone have any effective KT favorites or ones they think could hold up against other KTs?

Personally I was going to try my hand at Night Lords and Terror Squads.

Hi ReNoid, I play a lot of Kill Team. I have NOT yet played any Horus Heresy. I will only comment on the Kill Team ruleset.

1st and foremost, are you using the latest Kill Team Supplement? This is quite an important point, it's the one at:

https://itunes.apple.com/us/book/warhammer-40-000-kill-team/id775959071?mt=11

Even if you aren't, there have always been 3 Kill Team lists that just wreak newcomers, who get caught off-guard:

1. The 200-point Horde: Newcomers assume Kill Team is played with under 10 models. It's not true. You can fit 30 Orks.

2. Vehicular Manslaughter: Newcomers assume it's all infantry and forget to bring something as simple as Krak Grenades.

3. Long-ranged Marksman: Cheap snipers are quite common, some lists just don't know how to deal with them.

Imagine having to face the above, I found those 3 tips really help. Then, the foremost rule that catches newcomers off-guard is:

Break Tests - after suffering 50% casualties, you start having to roll Ld for units to stay in-game. Fearless negates, ATSKNF allows re-roll.

If you are playing with that official supplement, there's a few standout types of units due to the Missions and conditions of KT:

Bikers: Fast, resilient, usually comes equipped with good guns.
Example: 3 Bikers, 9 Tac Marines w/ 1 Meltagun, White Scar CT

Infiltrators: Very favoured in the new Kill Team rules, due to Mission Objectives and huge space.
Example: All SM Scouts mostly with Bolters, 1 or 2 Heavy Bolters, Sentinels of Terra CT

Fearless: There's a thing called a Break Test after you suffer 50% casualties, Fearless ignores it.
Example: 8 Plague Marines

Almost Anything Eldar: Eldar, due to their Fleetness, always seem to do well, we really dislike them.
Example: All Swooping Hawks, they got speed, they got Haywire, and they're pretty cheap

This is a quick summary off the top of my head. KT is great. Because we can play a game in 30 minutes, we've played so much of this, yet there's few mono-lists because its nature encourages much more variety. The only bad Kill Teams happen to be the exact ones that almost all newcomers take the 1st time: a few elite Infantry models (i.e. Sternguard) with too much gear (i.e. they all have Melta/Plasma-guns). Those look so cool in theory until they appear on the table, when it becomes obvious they are outnumbered, outmaneuvered and, because of those things, completely outgunned anyway.

Good hunting!

In the case of Eldar, I had considered the following choices:

Howling Banshees and Warp Spiders.

How could I make them work? They total 170 points on their own with no upgrades.

On a related note to something mentioned earlier, I am indeed using the updated Kill Team rules.

For the list you mentioned, IMHO the best upgrade is just more models, maybe 2 more Banshees?

It was a close friend/collaborator who used the Eldar, he also used Banshees (and Hawks), I gotta check with him on his 3 Specialists.

But the Specialists are a minor detail, as the list looks quite solid to me. Just keep in mind:

- Banshees are awesome for taking objectives, but not as good at holding them, so ambush points in Turn 4 if possible (i.e. don't peak too early)
- your greatest asset is actually your awesome mobility, and in KT, you'll find you have so much Terrain to use
- your Warp Spiders are great Anti-Vehicle if your opponents take them. Remember no total AV of over 33 in KT
- be aware of the hard counters, I'm thinking Sternguard's Kraken Bolts, an Ork horde, and a mass of infiltrating Genestealers
- there's only 1 mission that is particularly bad for this list, it's called Alone in the Dark, that list may be forced into Reserves

That said, Eldar are inherently really good for KT, yours is really good. Every KT has its hard counters, so no need to overworry.

Just take an hour to look through the rulebook to famliarise yourself, imagine a 4' x 4' table, and you should do well.

Well.... I made a Harlequin Kill team but they've been having it rough. Not once have a single one of them has ever made it to CQC.

I'm not giving up on them though because they're some of the best models I've made.

My initial idea was to take a 6xDominion unit, 4x melta guns, 1x plasma pistol (last model would get the sniper USR or rending as a specialist) all riding in an immolator.

The upsides are obvious 5 AP1 shots, 1 AP2 shot which can ignore cover for a turn. They're short range, but they also scout.

The downsides are also obvious 6 squishy models + 1 vehicle may not last long.

They would get mauled by a horde army. They would probably murder an elite army with a small number of models depending on who went first and maneuvering (scouts helps here).

Sisters are excellent in KT, not near as squishy as you'd think.

Pre-heresy are brutal in KT. Even basic marines are nasty, because of the low cost. We have a few pre heresy players, they tends to run waves of marines, either with or without a few upgrades. We've also had one of the seeker squads(? Preferred enemy against chosen unit) and grav bikes. The bikes only did ok. From experience I can say that mobility is a big thing. Jump packs/bikes/etc, but only to a point. You need models on the table. Most upgrades you can probably avoid, bolters do fine, but throwing a few heavier weapons in is great. Volkite not. I don't have Massacre at hand, atm, so can't specifically help, sorry.

I run Tau Stealth Suits. 2+ Cover saves are amazing, plus they have 3+ armor. They may be mediocre in regular play, but in KT they stand out to me.

I thought about that 6 stealth suits, with them all being separate units they should have the ability to pop up, shoot, then use their assault move to break cover again.

I also considered 4 pathfinders with 3 rail rifles, 6 fire warriors, 1 crisis suit with 2 weapons and the ability to splitfire. That would give you an army where everyone has 30" of firing range and the ability to move and shoot, possibly multiple times.

I think the tau suffer a bit from not being able to use markerlights for a whole unit at a time though.

Played last week. 1 Crisis with 2 pods, 2xFW and 1 Piranha. Did quite well!

Regarding Eldar, I really like Warp Spiders. They're very quick and have a good weapon

Can you take the same weapon twice on a crisis suit without it just becoming a twin linked version?

If the terrain is incredibly dense, a Callidus or Eversor Assassin will rule the game, depending on the enemy being a horde or an elite spec-ops type force.

If there is little terrain, a Vindicare Assassin.

A vindecare will auto-lose against 14+ models. All the assassins will struggle if there are multiple objectives spread out across the map. Actually, with the lack of units most of the assassins will overkill one guy per phase if they can reach him (bike/mech lists will just laugh).

Mavnas wrote:
A vindecare will auto-lose against 14+ models. All the assassins will struggle if there are multiple objectives spread out across the map. Actually, with the lack of units most of the assassins will overkill one guy per phase if they can reach him (bike/mech lists will just laugh).

The vindicare won't be unsupported. He can pick off any single model most of the time. Kill team will generally only have 1 wound models with less than 2+ save (unless playing GK/DW). He can pick off any MEQ model be it Bike, Infantry or Jump. Against say a Paladin he has his D3 wounds shot, or against a vehicle he can go Str 10.

I like taking 5 Crisis suits for KT.
2 with TL Missile Pods
3 with TL Burst Cannons
Keep the Missiles in the back and hunt with the other teams.
If it's necessary I might swap a Burst Crisis or two for some Fire Warriors or Kroot.
I don't usually see much Armor 14 in Kill Teams (Is that even allowed?) but I can easily swap out for TL Fusion blasters.

and someone asked above if you can take two of the same weapon - yes - you can.

 digital-animal wrote:
I like taking 5 Crisis suits for KT.
2 with TL Missile Pods
3 with TL Burst Cannons
Keep the Missiles in the back and hunt with the other teams.
If it's necessary I might swap a Burst Crisis or two for some Fire Warriors or Kroot.
I don't usually see much Armor 14 in Kill Teams (Is that even allowed?) but I can easily swap out for TL Fusion blasters.

and someone asked above if you can take two of the same weapon - yes - you can.

Last I heard that Killteam was 0-1 Elite, 0-2 Troop and 0-1 Fast Attack.

I think a barebones Nob Squad could just about squeeze in a barebones Battlewagon but that's about it.

 Deadshot wrote:

Mavnas wrote:
A vindecare will auto-lose against 14+ models. All the assassins will struggle if there are multiple objectives spread out across the map. Actually, with the lack of units most of the assassins will overkill one guy per phase if they can reach him (bike/mech lists will just laugh).

The vindicare won't be unsupported. He can pick off any single model most of the time. Kill team will generally only have 1 wound models with less than 2+ save (unless playing GK/DW). He can pick off any MEQ model be it Bike, Infantry or Jump. Against say a Paladin he has his D3 wounds shot, or against a vehicle he can go Str 10.

You can't take stuff from multiple codices/supplements I thought and you can't afford two assassins.

He will take 3 rounds to break open a vehicle, kill 5/6th of a model or 1/2 of one with an invuln. Heck, in a 5 round game, he'd pop open the rhino and kill 2 people total.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 digital-animal wrote:
I like taking 5 Crisis suits for KT.
2 with TL Missile Pods
3 with TL Burst Cannons
Keep the Missiles in the back and hunt with the other teams.
If it's necessary I might swap a Burst Crisis or two for some Fire Warriors or Kroot.
I don't usually see much Armor 14 in Kill Teams (Is that even allowed?) but I can easily swap out for TL Fusion blasters.

and someone asked above if you can take two of the same weapon - yes - you can.

AV14 is implicitly disallowed. Total armor must be 33 or less, and there's no. AV9. Incidentally, drop pods are too heavily armored.

Actually, I think the page saying what's allowed is one of the preview pages.

10 guardian jetbike with 3 shuriken cannon. Won me our last kill team tournaments with 6 wins out of 7 games, only loosing to a heavily buffed riptidr ( this was with the older rules mind you).

As fast as warpspider, better save and toughness all around. And you dont loose random guhs to double rolls of jump.

 Deadshot wrote:

 digital-animal wrote:
I like taking 5 Crisis suits for KT.
2 with TL Missile Pods
3 with TL Burst Cannons
Keep the Missiles in the back and hunt with the other teams.
If it's necessary I might swap a Burst Crisis or two for some Fire Warriors or Kroot.
I don't usually see much Armor 14 in Kill Teams (Is that even allowed?) but I can easily swap out for TL Fusion blasters.

and someone asked above if you can take two of the same weapon - yes - you can.

Last I heard that Killteam was 0-1 Elite, 0-2 Troop and 0-1 Fast Attack.

I think a barebones Nob Squad could just about squeeze in a barebones Battlewagon but that's about it.

You can do that with farsight; squads of 1-3 Crisis Suits can be troops. There is a one point tax per suit though, and if you do, then you have to bring at least 3.

 carldooley wrote:

 Deadshot wrote:

 digital-animal wrote:
I like taking 5 Crisis suits for KT.
2 with TL Missile Pods
3 with TL Burst Cannons
Keep the Missiles in the back and hunt with the other teams.
If it's necessary I might swap a Burst Crisis or two for some Fire Warriors or Kroot.
I don't usually see much Armor 14 in Kill Teams (Is that even allowed?) but I can easily swap out for TL Fusion blasters.

and someone asked above if you can take two of the same weapon - yes - you can.

Last I heard that Killteam was 0-1 Elite, 0-2 Troop and 0-1 Fast Attack.

I think a barebones Nob Squad could just about squeeze in a barebones Battlewagon but that's about it.

You can do that with farsight; squads of 1-3 Crisis Suits can be troops. There is a one point tax per suit though, and if you do, then you have to bring at least 3.

I was more talking about the AV14. That is my bad there, didn't make it clear in hindsight

NO AV14, no 2+ saves. Assasins may be illegal, due to their data slate status, but that aside, you need at least 4 non-vehicle models. However, assuming the data slate doesn't stop them being taken, most armies can fit a minimum sized squad of basic foot troopers in 50-65 points.

Mavnas wrote:
Can you take the same weapon twice on a crisis suit without it just becoming a twin linked version?

of course. you just need to pay the left price 2x

Thanks to the restrictions of no HQ, no Vehicles with more than 3 hull points, no Flyers, no Heavy, Necrons tend to be pretty relegated to taking small elite Killteam forces... that being said, the 3x Wraith + 5x Deathmark combo is pretty damn good.
(I just wish there was some way to fit the Triarch Stalker in, though).

 ReNoid wrote:
Barring any rules against Pre-Heresy models, does anyone have any effective KT favorites or ones they think could hold up against other KTs?

Personally I was going to try my hand at Night Lords and Terror Squads.

I've just recently done a KT tourney the other week where I ran 5 x Warp spiders (one exarch /w twin linked death spinner & fast shot), and 3 x Jetbikes that worked pretty well. I didn't win but I did better than I expected considering it was my first tournament and I made a lot of mistakes. The warp spiders were awesome against low initiative units and/or armoured targets. The winner was running thunderwolves.