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They're toning down the new books while tau and eldar and daemons remained at their 6th ed power level... So those three books will just rule even harder until they're remade in 3 years.

http://www.torrentoffire.com/5612/7th-edition-three-months-in

Doesn't seem to be that bad.
But how is it the fault of a new Codex-system that Eldar are way too strong in tournaments?
Tau, for some reason, stopped dominating that hard in Tournaments.

The fact that there are two or three books that are significantly ahead of the curve now, and that back in 6th the same books were also significantly ahead of the curve is surely functionally irrelevant?

You can only lose so hard.

Besides, I've read a quote from one of the studio staff acknowledging that Tau and Eldar are too far ahead of where they should be, and in the same breath admitting they weren't likely to take steps to fix it, so I will accept another period of indeterminate length until the next update if it means things smooth out.

It won't mean that, but it's nice to remain optimistic.

Kangodo wrote:
http://www.torrentoffire.com/5612/7th-edition-three-months-in

Doesn't seem to be that bad.
But how is it the fault of a new Codex-system that Eldar are way too strong in tournaments?
Tau, for some reason, stopped dominating that hard in Tournaments.

Daemons have also been knocked down a fair bit, what with the changes to Flying Monstrous Creatures and the new Psychic phase making it harder to get all of their powers off.
Tzeentch especially took a big hit with the Psychic phase changes, and Screamerstar is just dead weight now.

Yeah.... my Khorne Prince is not gonna get off the shelf any time soon.

it appears that GW is moving towards more internal balance within codexes which encourages more variety as there are no obvious x unit is better than y unit, and there would never be a reason to take z unit.

So GW has two options, they can make all the codexes on par with eldar/tau/CD which follow the above...

or they can go ahead with making everything more or less viable which encourages variety and balance. If you look at the new codexes compared to one another they are very balanced. Eventually they will get to eldar/tau/cd and they will achieve the same balance.

 Dalymiddleboro wrote:
They're toning down the new books while tau and eldar and daemons remained at their 6th ed power level... So those three books will just rule even harder until they're remade in 3 years.

Yup, those three armies are all unbeatable and the rest are gak. Basically everything has gone to hell and we should all hang ourselves. No need to take this any further.

/thread

blaktoof wrote:
it appears that GW is moving towards more internal balance within codexes which encourages more variety as there are no obvious x unit is better than y unit, and there would never be a reason to take z unit.

So GW has two options, they can make all the codexes on par with eldar/tau/CD which follow the above...

or they can go ahead with making everything more or less viable which encourages variety and balance. If you look at the new codexes compared to one another they are very balanced. Eventually they will get to eldar/tau/cd and they will achieve the same balance.

Yeah, becouse the Dreadknight isn't a auto-take for GK now.

Maybe it's just me but I feel the new Guard is incredibly strong and scary to go up against.

At the current rate, the Eldar and Tau books will be updated within a year. Maybe 18 months. I am fine with them being an exception as they will be brought in line. It looks like they are actually trying to balance things.

 Dalymiddleboro wrote:
They're toning down the new books while tau and eldar and daemons remained at their 6th ed power level... So those three books will just rule even harder until they're remade in 3 years.

Honestly, this is probably still the best we can hope for.

Otherwise, you'd just end up with an endless cycle of power creep.

Don't Eldar take a huge hit with the release of "Codex: Assassinate your Seer Council"?

Every time I see disappointment on the internet that the new "codex X" isn't as good as Tau and Eldar I breathe a sigh of relief. Because that means one more codex that I and everyone else will have a balanced fight against. I haven't got to test out my new GK codex against that many armies yet, but so far it seems that it and all the newer codecies are mostly balanced against each other.

Until the tau and eldar books are redone they aren't going to be balanced. I would prefer the internal and external balance of the new books be applied across the board rather than making every army stupidly OP.

If everything is OP, then nothing is.

 Azreal13 wrote:
If everything is OP, then nothing is.

Until the next OP thing.

 Azreal13 wrote:
If everything is OP, then nothing is.

That is only true if everything is equally OP.
And I don't like everything to be overpowered, it makes for such boring games.

col_impact wrote:
Don't Eldar take a huge hit with the release of "Codex: Assassinate your Seer Council"?

Yes. That will shake up tournament metas. The fact the book is so solid across the board means it won't be a major hit though. There are plenty of other ways to make great lists in that codex.

I'd prefer if every book was on Eldar's level to be honest. There are so many great units and different builds available. The game would be a lot more dynamic and engaging if everyone had the same freedom of choice of that army.

Noir wrote:

blaktoof wrote:
it appears that GW is moving towards more internal balance within codexes which encourages more variety as there are no obvious x unit is better than y unit, and there would never be a reason to take z unit.

So GW has two options, they can make all the codexes on par with eldar/tau/CD which follow the above...

or they can go ahead with making everything more or less viable which encourages variety and balance. If you look at the new codexes compared to one another they are very balanced. Eventually they will get to eldar/tau/cd and they will achieve the same balance.

Yeah, becouse the Dreadknight isn't a auto-take for GK now.

the dreadknight was always an good option to take, and would be rare if you did not see one. Regardless the GK codex has more internal balance than it did previously where you would often see armies that consisted of a paladin DS+ draigo, or as few inq henchmen as possible + lots of Dreadknights which is the point of what I mentioned.

I also fail to see what that has to do with the discussion as I'm talking about the entire balance of a codex, not a single model.

Maybe I'm the black sheep, but I don't find Tau to be that stupid. I did when I first started playing a year ago (Orks vs Tau was a slaughterfest and it used to upset me). But as I got wiser and better, they are indeed a good army. But I don't find them to be "stupid broken ermegerhd why GW!?"

And now that I've got my new codex, Orks have better survival rates and can put up a good fight even agains IG and Tau gunlines. It's true, they have a GOOD book, but I wouldn't call it OP anymore. Still very good.

Eldar, I've no real experience with outside of APOC games, though I have only really dealt with a few of their units, I'm often on the other side of the table from them. But there will always be someone who is super duper strong. I guess, in theory, they should have been first to be 'toned down' to 7th edition standard. But they will get there eventually. Let them enjoy their strength while it lasts :p

Melevolence wrote:

Eldar... Let them enjoy their strength while it lasts :p

They somewhat uniquely have almost always been amongst the strongest armies. I think 5th was the one era they were actually quite weak.

 Azreal13 wrote:
If everything is OP, then nothing is.

the problem with certain codexes isn't that everything is overpowered. It is that they have certain options which are very overpowered and the rest is okay.

The people who play those armies see the okay choices as bad because other choice = so good.

And we end up seeing an army comrpised mostly %points wise of the so good choices. Which makes the armies overpowered but also reduces variety in play.

A lot of the new codexes have a lot of good options and its very possible to build an army that would competitive with other 7th edition codexes from a large variety of options, as opposed to a small selection of units that you must take to be competitive+ whatever cheerleaders you need to unlock access to them or are required to take.

If there are degrees of OP, then not everything is OP.

I wouldn't say GW is making a better effort on internal balance so much as external balance. Within codices there are still very clear "good units" (ermagawd Pask) and "gak units" "ew ratlings, ew HWT's).

Whereas externally, all of the 7th edition codices and the tail-end 6E codices like IG and Tyranids seem to match up very fairly with one another.

GW's current balancing efforts are laudable, it's just a shame that it seems to come at the expense of removing entire units, characters and options rather than just re-balancing them. If they didn't remove so much stuff per codex, and if they weren't lowering the value of their books by removing swaths of fluff and art, I'd say they've been making strong improvements. That said...

I agree that Eldar are a strong Codex (I REFUSE to say OP because I have learned how to play against them and have a winning record against them, including the "nasty" lists) but the Tau did take a significant hit with 7th. Losing the ability for IC's to attach to MC's and Eldar Battle Brothers took out a good chunk of nastiest Tau lists. Personally I think armies like the Astra Militarium and certain Space Marine builds are stronger then Tau are and again, it boils down to changing up your lists and tactics to handle the new meta.

 BlaxicanX wrote:
If they didn't remove so much stuff per codex, and if they weren't lowering the value of their books by removing swaths of fluff and art, I'd say they've been making strong improvements. That said...

Did SW and GK lose much? Because orks sure as hell didn't. They basically cut up the diorama section of the old codex and sprinkled it across unit entries. Any unit fluff that didn't fit into the new design was moved to the general fluff section, at least one piece of new art for every clan showing one of their typical orks, an new fluff sections about Ghazghkull and Grukk. Not to mention the metric ton of new fluff and art in Waaagh! Ghazghghkull and The Red Waaagh!.

Kangodo wrote:
http://www.torrentoffire.com/5612/7th-edition-three-months-in

Doesn't seem to be that bad.
But how is it the fault of a new Codex-system that Eldar are way too strong in tournaments?
Tau, for some reason, stopped dominating that hard in Tournaments.

It still saddens me to see that CSM is below DA, man apparently drakes don't work that well.

 Azreal13 wrote:
The fact that there are two or three books that are significantly ahead of the curve now, and that back in 6th the same books were also significantly ahead of the curve is surely functionally irrelevant?

You can only lose so hard.

Besides, I've read a quote from one of the studio staff acknowledging that Tau and Eldar are too far ahead of where they should be, and in the same breath admitting they weren't likely to take steps to fix it, so I will accept another period of indeterminate length until the next update if it means things smooth out.

It won't mean that, but it's nice to remain optimistic.

You, I like you.

I would take Space Marines over those three armies without question.

If this post was a year old, you would have an argument.

Can't wait til Tau and Eldar get nerfed, and the cries that C:SM is OP. XD