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In the Tome of Fire trilogy, Sergeant Dak' ir was forever polishing with lapping powder and repairing his armor whenever he was deep in thought and contemplative, and there were constant references to non-marine support staff working on the gear of the Salamanders. Ever since then, I've always had an issue with Space Marines, Tau and Eldar armies being painted with weathering, rust, and battle damage. I've been of the opinion that those armies, so commited to war as the focus of their lives would never, EVER allow the tools of their trade to get to such a state.

"But, Lynkon..." I can hear you say, "...how are they going to repair the gear mid-campaign?"

Ahhh...true...but what would that ACTUALLY apply to?

Rust? NEVER! Rust is a slow moving opponent that can be beat by standard maintenance.
Battle Damage? No. When you take to the field of battle, how do you ALREADY have battle damage? Any properly equipped army will have the parts and staff to correct these issues
Mud/dirt/muck? I can let this one slide as some of this is picked up on the way to the battlefield ...but this should be on there AFTER the battle.
Faded paint/ damaged markings? Bite your tongue! Even between battles, the quartermaster is cleaning this up.

NOW, if we were talking about Imperial Guard, or ESPECIALLY ORKS which seem to revel in rust, dust, and dirt, I will praise a good weathering and chipping. It's what makes Orks ORKY!

Now, for full disclosure, I DO have a confession to make on my own guilty pleasure...Even on my PRISTINE yellow Sentinels of Terra Imperial Fists I CAN NOT STOP painting the thermal discoloring around the stacks on my dreadnought and Rhino engines, and on my Multimelta cowls. I LOVE IT.

Slightly overdone...but basically THIS

marines are pretty hard on about keeping their gear clean and in good shape. They spend on average 4-6 hours of the day doing maintenance on their gear.

I go with the grimy route. In mid-battle they're under fire from usually ten times their number, and that's going to mess up their kit pretty bad. They may not have time to repair that damage if they're on constant campaign with hours at most between assaults/deployments.

Plus, it looks better than bright blocks of colour in my opinion.

I always feel the appearance should serve the narrative of the army. If it fits the army's narrative (like they're in a massive, drag out campaign, or the Badab War) then dirty them up like mad, otherwise keep them clean.

Of course if you do the Pre-Heresy Death Guard, they never removed the cosmetic damage of their armor to make the enemy fear them (as in making them think: "they lived through all of THAT, so how am -I- going to kill them?") so some armies should always be battle damaged, if that's the sort of army they are.

I go the in between route their equipment is in good order but I grime them up to make it look like they have been in the field for a bit but than again I also paint my marines in camo, besides I think it is also a preference on how you want to show them, all clean ad fresh or in the middle of a tough battle taking on enemy fire.

There is also a successor chapter that does the same thing as pre heresy death guard as well but I can not remember the name

 Paradigm wrote:


Plus, it looks better than bright blocks of colour in my opinion.

This is the where I disagree the most, and I think I find myself disagreeing with most people. Imperial Guard are plain and simple "The Army". Olive Drab soldiers and their gear. And they are AWESOME for it. You are playing supercharged Army Men!

Space Marines are, quite literally, something else entirely and are represented by bright blocks of color accordingly. The continued existence of mankind during the Horus Heresy, and immediately following, is a direct result of the primary colors...Red Yellow and Blue. Blood Angels, Imperial Fists, and Ultramarines. But so many people want to represent them by muted, less "toy" "candy" versions of their colors.

"Girl Painting" has a beautiful Imperial Fists army that is painted in what appears to be, granted over youtube, tan. I have seen Blood Angels armies painted maroon.

If you take a primary colored marine army, embrace it's color, and paint it as such. It's not "Tonka Yellow", It's not "Canary Yellow", It's not "Lemon Yellow", It's certainly not "Iyanden Yellow", It's "Imperial Fists Yellow". Yes, it sucks to paint, Yes, it takes 47 coats to get it right, Yes, everything shows through it. No, it should not be a muted tanish, brownish, beigeish yellow.

I shall reiterate one of my favorite quotes.

The uniforms of the Imperial Guard are camouflaged in order to protect their wearers by hiding them from sight. The principle is that what the enemy cannot see he cannot kill.
This is not the way of the Adeptus Astartes. A Space Marine’s armour is bright with heraldry that proclaims his devotion to his Chapter and the beloved Emperor of Mankind. Our principle is that what the enemy can see, he will soon learn to fear
-Chaplain Aston, Fire Hawks

A mix, not too shabby but not parade perfect.

Yes dirt but no space marine if has time/resources will let kit go without repair. Ie repainting a damaged area, fixing damage with tempery kit paste like in some books until can be done properly.

 GreyHamster wrote:
I shall reiterate one of my favorite quotes.

The uniforms of the Imperial Guard are camouflaged in order to protect their wearers by hiding them from sight. The principle is that what the enemy cannot see he cannot kill.
This is not the way of the Adeptus Astartes. A Space Marine’s armour is bright with heraldry that proclaims his devotion to his Chapter and the beloved Emperor of Mankind. Our principle is that what the enemy can see, he will soon learn to fear
-Chaplain Aston, Fire Hawks

That's a great quote, but if I'm not mistaken, don't the Fire Hawks now go by a different name?

Actually, where is that from?

I paint dirt, but not damage. So neither?

IMO space marines, like every army, should be weathered. They're soldiers, not artists. Any time spent polishing their armor is time spent not killing the enemies of the Emperor. Their equipment will of course be flawlessly maintained from a functional point of view, but you have to understand that this is hardware that will be used and abused and pushed to its limits, if not beyond them. The Rhino driver isn't going to worry about scratching the paint while attacking an enemy position, he's going to smash right through the wall and deliver his cargo. Superficial things like paint chips and oil stains are just part of normal use, and won't be fixed until the chapter is on a long trip beyond battlefields and has nothing better to do with their time. And at 28mm scale you have to go a bit heavier on weathering than a "real" marine would have, just to make it all visible at tabletop distances.

As for the color issue, marines should have faded colors because unnaturally bright colors don't really exist in the real world. That perfect bright yellow is only going to look like that in ideal lighting conditions with no dirt. In the haze and mud of a battle even bright colors are going to look kind of dull. Painting the model with more subdued colors represents this fact a lot more accurately than the bright colors and extreme highlights of GW's catalog pictures.

If you have time to clean, you have time to sharpen up your bolter skills.

This does not apply to Blood Angels, who must be prettier than pretty

 Peregrine wrote:
IMO space marines, like every army, should be weathered. They're soldiers, not artists. Any time spent polishing their armor is time spent not killing the enemies of the Emperor. Their equipment will of course be flawlessly maintained from a functional point of view, but you have to understand that this is hardware that will be used and abused and pushed to its limits, if not beyond them. The Rhino driver isn't going to worry about scratching the paint while attacking an enemy position, he's going to smash right through the wall and deliver his cargo. Superficial things like paint chips and oil stains are just part of normal use, and won't be fixed until the chapter is on a long trip beyond battlefields and has nothing better to do with their time. And at 28mm scale you have to go a bit heavier on weathering than a "real" marine would have, just to make it all visible at tabletop distances.

As for the color issue, marines should have faded colors because unnaturally bright colors don't really exist in the real world. That perfect bright yellow is only going to look like that in ideal lighting conditions with no dirt. In the haze and mud of a battle even bright colors are going to look kind of dull. Painting the model with more subdued colors represents this fact a lot more accurately than the bright colors and extreme highlights of GW's catalog pictures.

What you are saying about the colors is precisely the inverse reinforcement of what I am saying. The dual hearts,Disney-style chiseled jaw, and 6' 9" 1000 year old frame of a Darnath Lysander isn't going exist in the real world (and that unreal world has three suns and an atmosphere of 30% methane 20% oxygen and 50% pistachio pudding) so go for the pure yellow. Save the realism for the guard.

I paint my space marines in prestine condition because I almost always run 100% drop pod armies, so it wouldn't really make sense to weather them when they arrive fresh from orbit.

I play Ultramarines, they are the epitome of the professional and utterly devoted Space Marine. That means they go into battle in their sunday best and any moment not spent fighting, training to fight or praying is spent in quiet contemplation while maintaining equipment, also while praying. Don't forget with space marines their reputations are almost as powerful a weapon as their guns. An enemy who feels fear is one who hesitates to act or acts rashly. They want to have their livery and colors to be sharp, crisp, and visible for all to see.

Plus its really hard to hide an 8 ft tall, 2 ton, armored psychopath no matter how hard you try.

somewhere in the middle. so there might be the odd crack or chip, or impact mark, some mud around the lower leg, the odd visible injury. my marines look like they've only recently been deployed so are fairly fresh. your mileage may vary.

Space Marines are violent, sociopathic shock troops. They should look the part.

Pristine armor is for the parade ground. The second they get stuck in they're liable to be getting hit by incoming fire, and their armor would reflect it.

But hey, it's all up to personal choice. I disagree about bright colors. I feel like the Space Marine chapters using bright colors would have bright colors. It isn't about what occurs in nature. It's about heraldry and visibility. It isn't even that Space Marines wouldn't use camo. It's that camo isn't even really useful to them. The reason most militaries don't bother with urban camo is that you'll never look like a building. So concealment and cover is far more important than blending with your surroundings. For Space Marines, the majority of their combat actions are going be sudden and direct. There's little subtlety to a drop pod attack, or jump packs.

I mean, like Jello-O, there's always room for blending in. I mean, maybe your opponent overlooks you if you're not bright Imperial Fist yellow. But i think Space Marines just kinda accept being visible as a tradeoff for the idea that being really easy to spot makes you a bit more terrifying.

 Peregrine wrote:
IMO space marines, like every army, should be weathered. They're soldiers, not artists. Any time spent polishing their armor is time spent not killing the enemies of the Emperor. Their equipment will of course be flawlessly maintained from a functional point of view, but you have to understand that this is hardware that will be used and abused and pushed to its limits, if not beyond them. The Rhino driver isn't going to worry about scratching the paint while attacking an enemy position, he's going to smash right through the wall and deliver his cargo. Superficial things like paint chips and oil stains are just part of normal use, and won't be fixed until the chapter is on a long trip beyond battlefields and has nothing better to do with their time. And at 28mm scale you have to go a bit heavier on weathering than a "real" marine would have, just to make it all visible at tabletop distances.

As for the color issue, marines should have faded colors because unnaturally bright colors don't really exist in the real world. That perfect bright yellow is only going to look like that in ideal lighting conditions with no dirt. In the haze and mud of a battle even bright colors are going to look kind of dull. Painting the model with more subdued colors represents this fact a lot more accurately than the bright colors and extreme highlights of GW's catalog pictures.

I model/paint my Blood Angels pristine specifically because they ARE artists

I dislike the spotless look of the army in many cases, because it looks like they've just arrived via car wash, looking green and inexperienced.
My Chapter prefers to campaign a lot, wearing gear that has lost some paintjob and has some battle damage here and there, showing that these guys have seen the war. There's little to none time to paint and polish your stuff when you're chain-crusading. The maintenance is crucial - the pretty decorations aren't (counting out the well done and decades of old scrimshaw hanging around the plating).

Just note that I'm a Death Guard and CSM player.

Dirt, rust, grime, mold, scaly scabs, oozing bullet holes, skeleton drivers, weathered paint. Looks awesome!

Weathered, definitely. Makes them look less like toys and more like real (super) soldiers.

IMO it's the same as modeling your Sgt sans helmet or an ork in mid kill. The models are meant to represent a character at a specific moment in time, so battle damage is no more or less fluffy than full regalia.

 Crimson wrote:

Spoiler:

Weathered, definitely. Makes them look less like toys and more like real (super) soldiers.

Just have to say, those are epic!

 Paradigm wrote:

 Crimson wrote:

Spoiler:

Weathered, definitely. Makes them look less like toys and more like real (super) soldiers.

Just have to say, those are epic!

They are good, although the upscaling via huge bootsoles looks a little wonky.

 Ashiraya wrote:

 Paradigm wrote:

 Crimson wrote:

Spoiler:

Weathered, definitely. Makes them look less like toys and more like real (super) soldiers.

Just have to say, those are epic!

They are good, although the upscaling via huge bootsoles looks a little wonky.

:-o You'd hate to see my modelling and painting then!

I prefer to upscale via Veteran Sergeant's plasticard method.



As for my painting skills, they are... Moderate, at best.

I paint my Marines in pristine condition. The stuff they use are sacred, honoured relics after all, and I am pretty sure the SM are extremely obsessed with maintaining them. Any battle damage would be repaired asap, even while on campaign.

On CSM on the other hand, it is fun to go all out with damage and corruption.

Whilst I have seen many very good examples of weathering, I have seen far more shoddy attempts in an attempt to cover up a poor paint job. NMM requires skill, a heavy wash does not. I think it is harder to produce a pristine paint job than it is to weather a model. I have even noticed commission painters covering up mistakes with weathering [e.g. wonky hazard lines].

You have to look at it this way: maintenance =/= paint & polish

Consider real world military hardware for a second. An M1A1 Abrams will look great when it rolls off the factory floor, but after time spent in combat it will start to show wear and tear. That doesn't matter as much if the machine is mechanically sound. Look at this picture:


That picture was taken in November 2004 in Iraq. That tank was deployed to Iraq in early 2004 and after a little bit of time spent in the field, it shows considerable wear and tear.

So to me, it would make sense that space marine equipment would be weathered, especially considering their roll as up-close-and-personal shock troopers.

I paint my vehicles with damage, wear, and grime. My marines are usually muddy, some wear, but not damaged.