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So, with the drop of the new codex, I am taking a Librarian which seems like it is going to be standard for GK players now. I also take the relic Domina Liber Daemonica on him as well essentially giving the Librarian access to 4 different psychic powers with one of them needing to be from the Sanctic discipline. Also re-rolling ones on the Psychic Test is pretty awesome too. Now with the 5th Codex, I was running the Mordrak+Librarian Alpha Strike with the Librarian casting Invisibility on the unit to make it a powerhouse in my opponent's backfield. With the Libby being ML 3, I got the power pretty consistently to use anything else. Now with the new Codex I am not so sure. Sanctuary provides a decent defense, not as good as Invisibility but enough that it is worth taking notice. In the game I played yesterday, I used a Libby with 5 Terminators and Draigo but I didn't get invisibility but a passing DK of mine used Sanctuary to help the squad out for one turn and that made all the difference that turn saving my Terminators from destruction and allowing Draigo to tank things like a boss with 2++.

So my question is this, do I continue trying to get Invisibility from Telepathy with only a 50% success rate for the bigger risk, bigger pay off or do I try for Sanctuary because adding the book allows me to roll on the Sanctic powers 4 times and almost guaranteeing a defensive spell? Plus it would allow me access to Gate of Infinity if I don't take Draigo and I might play around with that Vortex if I get it.

mix it up and try both see what works better for you.

the question I have, is if a ML3 Lib takes 3 telepathy powers and the DLD does he still get the free telepathy primus power?

BrianDavion wrote:
mix it up and try both see what works better for you.

the question I have, is if a ML3 Lib takes 3 telepathy powers and the DLD does he still get the free telepathy primus power?

I have no idea. Can you argue why he would?


As for the OP, I vote 3x Santic for the Sanctuary to buff a Paladin Star. Send a Pallystar with Draigo in front, tanking wounds on his 2++ and FNP with EW and 4 wounds, the Libby keeping everyone at a 4++ or better with 2 Dreadknight flanking up the sides and Termies or allied units holding objectives and (god forbid!) Strike Squads deep striking in the backfield enemy lines to provide (relatively) cheap and durable distractions and possibly contesting or capturing an objective.

We played it that he would get the Primaris power since the DLD is an add-on but I can also see why people would argue against that. I think next time I will try Sanctic to see which works better.

My hesitation is that Paladins can be quite expensive points wise and I am worried if the points are ever worth it. I mean, 3 Paladins cost the same as a Terminator squad. I would really have to play around with the costs.

 Envihon wrote:
We played it that he would get the Primaris power since the DLD is an add-on but I can also see why people would argue against that.

The rules for Psychic Focus pretty clearly state that if you gain a power from a different discipline, you immediately lose Psychic Focus and the associated primaris power.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Envihon wrote:
I used a Libby with 5 Terminators and Draigo but I didn't get invisibility but a passing DK of mine used Sanctuary to help the squad out for one turn and that made all the difference that turn saving my Terminators from destruction and allowing Draigo to tank things like a boss with 2++.

Also, Sanctuary affects the Psyker and his unit only. So your DK can't buff your terminators if you go all-in on Telepathy.

I've actually been doing very well with Telekinesis on the Libby. THere's a lot of good in there for the GK style without the redundancy of santic.

My suggestion.

Allied GK Libby = All Santic
Pure GK Libby = Telekinesis or maybe Telepathy

best to keep each libby specialized,

one with the 4 rolls roll all 4 on sanctic,

one with all 3 on tele

If that is the case and I take a DLD, then I would have to say that I would just take the 4 rolls on Sanctic for the the almost guaranteed Sanctuary.

I would miss Psychic Shriek but honestly, getting Cleansing Flame is still awesome.

The point cost of carrying two Librarians for this concerns me plus the amount of chances for Perils as you try and get both Sanctuary and Invisibility off. It would be cheaper than taking Draigo like I have been doing though but that is whole point of why Sanctuary can be so good because it gives Draigo 2++ to tank things with.

I also don't run a pure GK army anymore, just a main force of GK with some kind of ally in the form of either Eldar, Imperial Fists or an Imperial Knight so that is also why I am hesitant to double on Librarians or to take a Paladin squad headed by Draigo.

I have been testing out different configurations to run with a paladin star at points levels of 1000-1500 pure GK. I have had very good luck with running a ML 3 Libby rolling pure Telepathy (fishing for Invis, but with other assorted powers and Psychic Shriek making strong showings as well) alongside Brocap Stern for guaranteed Sanctuary, in a squad with 3 Paladins rolling out in a L. Raider Redeemer (for optional badassery like an allied priest for sweet buffs in melee, etc). This star also works well at 1500+ points with the addition of Draigo for guaranteed access to Gate for added mobility and strategic flexibility.

My favored plan of action is either to run up 12 in the redeemer, pop smoke, and next turn assault with devastating fire support and psychic buffs in the form of Invis and/or Sanctuary (usually plenty of warp charges for both in addition to hammerhand courtesy of the paladins or Stern). Or if I'm running it with Draigo, deploy in a conservative position, cast Invis and Sanctuary, and if they go off/aren't denied go ahead and gate to a forward threatening position. When paired with shunting DKs, that's a whole lot of highly threatening, very tough units to deal with right in the face of the enemy starting turn 1 or 2.

 Fachxphyre wrote:
I have been testing out different configurations to run with a paladin star at points levels of 1000-1500 pure GK. I have had very good luck with running a ML 3 Libby rolling pure Telepathy (fishing for Invis, but with other assorted powers and Psychic Shriek making strong showings as well) alongside Brocap Stern for guaranteed Sanctuary, in a squad with 3 Paladins rolling out in a L. Raider Redeemer (for optional badassery like an allied priest for sweet buffs in melee, etc). This star also works well at 1500+ points with the addition of Draigo for guaranteed access to Gate for added mobility and strategic flexibility.

My favored plan of action is either to run up 12 in the redeemer, pop smoke, and next turn assault with devastating fire support and psychic buffs in the form of Invis and/or Sanctuary (usually plenty of warp charges for both in addition to hammerhand courtesy of the paladins or Stern). Or if I'm running it with Draigo, deploy in a conservative position, cast Invis and Sanctuary, and if they go off/aren't denied go ahead and gate to a forward threatening position. When paired with shunting DKs, that's a whole lot of highly threatening, very tough units to deal with right in the face of the enemy starting turn 1 or 2.

That works a little to more to my flavor, it gives me guaranteed Sanctuary and let's my Librarian roll on the Telepathy chart. Even with taking the LDL, the double ML3 Librarians are still a bit cheaper so I might play around with this a bit even if the difference between the two combinations is 20 points. Plus, Stern is a little more of a beast when it comes to shooting and melee combat despite only having a Nemesis Force Sword instead of the Nemesis Warding Staves carried by the Librarians. I don't rely heavily on armor in my GK army, I think it adds bloat to an already small army, usually relying my allies to bring that with the Eldar (Gotta love Wave Serpents) or Imperial Knight being that aspect of my army. This is why I am so conscious of points. At 1000 points or below, I run pure GK. There is no other way to do it but once we start creeping into 1250+ points, is when I can start bringing my allies.

How do you equip the three paladins? I am assuming one is an Apothecary for FNP while the other two would be normal with maybe a Halberd and a Hammer and then a Halberd for the Apothecary as well? I would want to even it out to 5 Paladins to take advantage of getting the 2 Psycannons but that is way too expensive in anything that isn't 1500+. I just have had too many times when low model count has come and screwed me. Even with the 2 Wounds that come on the Paladins, I worry about AP2 weaponry wiping them out even with Invis and Sanctuary to protect them making that cost go down the drain when I could of had more Terminators for a lower cost.

My first game with 2,000 points I ran this:
Librarian, ML3, Storm Bolter, Domina Liber Daemonica

10 Terminators, 2 psycannons, 6 Halberds, 4 Hammers

10 GK Interceptors, 2 psycannons, 6 Halberds, 2 Hammers

2 DreadKnights, Personal Teleporters, Heavy Incinerator, Heavy Psycannon, Nemesis Greatsword

Draigo

Imperial Knight Errant

I would modify it a bit to provide for the 500 point Eldar detachment I run and the 560 point Imperial Fist detachment but you get the basics of what my strategy is. I abuse the deep strike mechanic like it is going out of style and I want to have that one tough unit that sits in their backfield causing havoc making them choose whether they want to focus on that or try and go after something else. If I replace Draigo with Stern in this build it does free up some points but I am also looking for a good way to make a nice way to reduce this down to 1,000 points; 1,250 points; 1,500 points; or 1850 points while keeping the same flavor of what my 2,000 point list will bring and I feel like that hinges on the fact of having a backfield unit that is really tough and hard to deal with. I like the Gate of Infinity that Draigo brings as it gives versatility of strategy and tactics but I feel like survival of that backfield group through Sanctuary and Invisibility is the key to it more. I mean honestly to do it the best would be to take two Librarians for almost full access to both Sanctic and Telepathy but I also feel that takes away from things like Draigo wrecking face along with Stern doing the same thing.

After reading this post, and doing some point crunching, I feel the best thing to do is to include Stern or have a second ML3 Librarian dedicated to Telepathy while having a primary Librarian dedicated to Sanctic with the DLD to help get things like Sanctuary, Gate of Infinity and Cleansing Flame. I can only imagine the havoc hitting a squad with both Cleansing Flame and Psychic Shriek can do to an a squad. The double Librarians also is more cost efficient than Stern but you don't get a guaranteed Sanctuary. I will have to do some more point crunching to see what I am comfortable with.

IMO if you have storm shields in the unit with the libby then the DLD+sanctic libby is brilliant. The storm shield helps to upgrade sanctuary from a decent power to a fantastic power. This makes there be the following powers to definitely want; Gate of Infinity, Sanctuary, Cleansing Flame, and Vortex of Doom all of which are good against pretty much any foe. You also get to reroll 1's to get the powers off and the powers of the unit which is a huge benefit. Hammer Hand and Purge Soul are good powers though HH is only useful when you join a unit that doesn't already have it and purge is great against low Ld armies but there are a large number of abilities that will cause it to become practically useless (nids SotW, high Ld IC attached, ethereal bubble, etc.). Even banishment is useful when you encounter daemons...but that is it.

Telepathy has invisibility which is always excellent (and which you have a 50/50 chance to get w/ a ML 3 libby). Invisibility is huge for GK as pretty much any GK squad is expensive enough to make the investment worthwhile. The rest of the powers become fantastic against low Ld armies (which have become more abundant) but still suffer from being somewhat conditional. Psychic shriek is probably the best non nova witchfire and shrouded is a beast of a power if you get it off on MSU mech lists or lightly armoured infantry (it works great combined with IG and flyer lists with a paladin ground control unit).

The problem with this question is that a libby would normally be best choosing his discipline depending on the opponent but sanctic with DLD is an incredible sanctic user and magnifies his entire region of the board. Therefore in reality the choice is a flexible Telepathy or Sanctic libby vs a DLD sanctic libby. This leads me to the conjecture that a the DLD libby is actually best in a GK psyker heavy list or a list aiming at getting a 2++ deathstar (or some combination). Otherwise being flexible is more powerful as psychic shriek and invisibility become god like in the right list/circumstance.

BTW if you have a cent star w/ draigo I had originally thought the invisibility libby was the better choice but I have started reversing my opinion. The ability to reroll 1's on GoI and possibly turn draigo into a 2++ monster is extremely powerful and purifying flame is great to clear out hordes and MSU which the cent star otherwise is weak against. It also gives a backup GoI chance in case draigo gets killed or fails to get it off. I find that the cent star is extremely WC hungry now and lacks the cheap WC it used to depend on, thus reroll 1's lets it stretch those WCs that extra little bit. VoD can also help put that extra damage down against SHs.

 ansacs wrote:
You also get to reroll 1's to get the powers off and the powers of the unit which is a huge benefit.

No. GK only get to reroll 1s on Deny the Witch rolls.

Relic benefit, not aegis.

 Tannhauser42 wrote:

 ansacs wrote:
You also get to reroll 1's to get the powers off and the powers of the unit which is a huge benefit.

No. GK only get to reroll 1s on Deny the Witch rolls.

Liber Daemonica lets you reroll 1's while manifesting Sanctic powers

I am pretty much decided that I am going to have 2 Librarians in a squad one with a DLD devoted to Sanctic and the other devoted to Telepath to get the best of both worlds. The only trouble I am having is getting a 1k list that is good for this combination since it leaves me with little troops.