| Author |
Message |
 |
|
|
|
|
Advert
|
Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you:
- No adverts like this in the forums anymore.
- Times and dates in your local timezone.
- Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance.
- Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely.
- Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net.
If you are already a member then feel free to login now. |
|
 |
2014/09/06 03:13:30
Subject: [2000] - Seerstar VS Serpent Spam - Which one is better?
|
|
Screaming Shining Spear
|
So basically I'm wondering if Seerstar is just categorically better than any other Eldar configuration. Below is classic Seerstar versus a serpent spam list I like, is there any merit to the non-seerstar list? Or is it just wrong to not play seerstar lol? Both 2000 pts.
HQ - Farseer w/ warding & witnessing, jetbike, singing spear, anath'lan, anaris
HQ - Farseer w/ warding & witnessing, jetbike, singing spear
HQ - Baron Sathonyx
Warlock Council - 8x Warlocks w/ jetbikes, 3x singing spears
Troops - 5x Dire Avengers
Wave Serpent w/ TL-Scatter Laser & Shuriken Cannon, Holo Fields
Troops - 5x Dire Avengers
Wave Serpent w/ TL-Scatter Laser & Shuriken Cannon, Holo Fields
Troops - 5x Dire Avengers
Wave Serpent w/ TL-Scatter Laser & Shuriken Cannon, Holo Fields
Troops - 5x Dire Avengers
Wave Serpent w/ TL-Scatter Laser & Shuriken Cannon, Holo Fields
Troops - 5x Kabalite Warriors
Heavy Support - Wraithknight w/ 2x Heavy Wraithcannons
VS
HQ - Farseer w/ Jetbike, Singing Spear, MOTLG, Runes of W, Sprirt Stone
Troops - 5x Dire Avengers
Wave Serpent w/ TL-Scatter Laser & Shuriken Cannon, Holo Fields
Troops - 5x Dire Avengers
Wave Serpent w/ TL-Scatter Laser & Shuriken Cannon, Holo Fields
Troops - 5x Dire Avengers
Wave Serpent w/ TL-Scatter Laser & Shuriken Cannon, Holo Fields
Troops - 5x Dire Avengers
Wave Serpent w/ TL-Scatter Laser & Shuriken Cannon, Holo Fields
Troops - 5x Dire Avengers
Wave Serpent w/ TL-Scatter Laser & Shuriken Cannon, Holo Fields
Fast Attack - 8x Warp Spiders
Fast Attack - 8x Warp Spiders
Heavy Support - Wraithknight w/ 2x Heavy Wraithcannon
Heavy Support - Wraithknight w/ 2x Heavy Wraithcannon
|
     9000 pts  6000 pts  3500 ---> KEEP CALM AND XENOS |
|
|
 |
|
2014/09/06 03:19:05
Subject: [2000] - Seerstar VS Serpent Spam - Which one is better?
|
|
Devastating Dark Reaper
|
I wouldn't build any list based on baron since he's probably gone in a few weeks
|
 2500+
Chaos, Both CSM and Daemons
    7000+
Blood Runs. Anger Rises. Death Wakes. War Calls!
Maim, Kill, Maim, Burn, Kill, Maim, Burn, Kill, Maim, Burn, Kill, Bunny, Maim, Kill, Maim.....(Noise Marine found the wrong rhino)
Attention all WA, Oregon, Idaho wargamers, Look up facebook group "Northwest Wargamers" |
|
|
|
|
2014/09/06 03:53:14
Subject: [2000] - Seerstar VS Serpent Spam - Which one is better?
|
|
Screaming Shining Spear
|
You think they're going to remove a longstanding named character to nerf a list?
|
9000 pts 6000 pts 3500 ---> KEEP CALM AND XENOS |
|
|
|
|
2014/09/06 03:56:48
Subject: [2000] - Seerstar VS Serpent Spam - Which one is better?
|
|
Stubborn Dark Angels Veteran Sergeant
|
they will nerf him. I am sure.
other than that, I prefer the serpent spam as a WAAC list.
|
 Wyzilla wrote:
Because Plague Marines have the evasion abilities of a drunk elephant.
Burn the Heretic
Kill the mutant
Purge the Unclean |
|
|
|
|
2014/09/06 04:13:18
Subject: Re:[2000] - Seerstar VS Serpent Spam - Which one is better?
|
|
Grey Knight Psionic Stormraven Pilot
California
|
Both list you presented are serpent spam. The question to ask is... "Is seercouncil better than 2x warpspiders+1 wraithknight" To which my answer would be yes. You will be granted very strong field presence as to where the warpspiders are still respectable but most likely to be targeted and taken out because they are the easiest unit to take out as consequence of playing alongside such sturdy units.
|
 2500pts  2000 |
|
|
|
|
2014/09/06 04:23:36
Subject: [2000] - Seerstar VS Serpent Spam - Which one is better?
|
|
Screaming Shining Spear
|
I see your point, but its technically + 2x warpspiders +1 wrathknight +1 wave serpent.
|
9000 pts 6000 pts 3500 ---> KEEP CALM AND XENOS |
|
|
|
|
2014/09/06 04:44:29
Subject: Re:[2000] - Seerstar VS Serpent Spam - Which one is better?
|
|
Grey Knight Psionic Stormraven Pilot
California
|
and to that, I'd say that properlly used, that they are still better.
1 Wave serpent doesn't add anything new to the list other than more scoring/shooting
2x warpspiders are still a eyesoar target in relation to shooting at front armor 13 with a jink save wave serpents, especially when there are 5+ of them
1 more wraithknight doesn't add anything new to the list other than once again more scoring/shooting/assault.
Wave serpent adds Deathstar.. that's it... no more need to elaborate. "Deathstar" and not just any deathstar... "Seercouncil"; there is a reason that they do so well..."all the time" in tournaments.
I mean It's not like your really in need of any more shooting anyways with 5 wave serpents. 2x warpspiders is almost over kill...same thing with the extra wave serpent and the wraithknight.
The seer council adds an entirely different entity to your list..
Epic Assault. The one thing waveserpent spam lacks... well now they have it and come out to be pretty much as well rounded as you could possibly make them.
|
|
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/09/06 04:45:44
2500pts 2000 |
|
|
|
|
2014/09/06 18:43:38
Subject: [2000] - Seerstar VS Serpent Spam - Which one is better?
|
|
Implacable Black Templar Initiate
Central Illinois
|
It is not a change to the baron that is expected but as there has been no mention of new kits for the baron and GW has been removing rules without a model based on a law suit then I would say his days are numbered.
The question I have is the hit n run and 2++ on the sky board are his major benefits. Will Dark Eldar get that ability on archons through options?
Not sure.
Personably I think both lists need something to remove armor 14.
|
Words of wisdom by Prophet40k
That game put my faith in Khorne to the test. My table-neighbor looked at the match up and said "Here you're going to need these more than I will" and handed me a bag of Jello shots. They must have pleased Khorne because I walked out 11-2.
Now looking at another list with MORE tyrants and MORE mawlocks, I said to myself. "Oh well looks like it's time for another beer. It'll take the sting out of this. LOL" |
|
|
|
|
2014/09/06 18:53:31
Subject: [2000] - Seerstar VS Serpent Spam - Which one is better?
|
|
Stubborn Dark Angels Veteran Sergeant
|
I would actually take a bunch of bright lances.
|
Wyzilla wrote:
Because Plague Marines have the evasion abilities of a drunk elephant.
Burn the Heretic
Kill the mutant
Purge the Unclean |
|
|
|
|
2014/09/06 19:58:14
Subject: [2000] - Seerstar VS Serpent Spam - Which one is better?
|
|
Screaming Shining Spear
|
Well, the second list has two wraithknights which are more than capable of popping AV 14, and the 16 warpspiders can easily glance an AV 14 to death. I don't think AV 14 would represent a major road block for it.
|
9000 pts 6000 pts 3500 ---> KEEP CALM AND XENOS |
|
|
|
|
2014/09/06 20:29:14
Subject: [2000] - Seerstar VS Serpent Spam - Which one is better?
|
|
Agile Revenant Titan
|
peteralmo wrote: and the 16 warpspiders can easily glance an AV 14 to death. I don't think AV 14 would represent a major road block for it.
Except they literally cannot hurt it. To answer your question, serpent spam is much more viable in waac lists than seer stars. I would recommend another wraith knight instead of warp spiders though.
|
|
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/09/06 20:29:25
I do drugs.
Mostly Plastic Crack, but I do dabble in Cardboard Cocaine. |
|
|
|
|
2014/09/06 20:30:53
Subject: [2000] - Seerstar VS Serpent Spam - Which one is better?
|
|
Screaming Shining Spear
|
Check that, monofilament doesn't turn ap 1 against vehicles, so cant hurt AV 14, had to check that, but the wraithknights still destroy them, 4 str 10 ap 2 shots between the two of them, and 10 total str 10 attacks on the charge? Yeah, I think they have AV 14 covered.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Ok, so here is a question, would it be better to drop the spiders for a third wraithknight or a squad of fire dragons inside another wave serpent?
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Two revised lists, which one is better?
HQ - Farseer w/ Jetbike, Singing Spear, Mantle of the Laughing God, Anath'lan
Troops - 5x Dire Avengers
Wave Serpent w/ TL-Scatter Laser & Shuriken Cannon, Holo Fields
Troops - 5x Dire Avengers
Wave Serpent w/ TL-Scatter Laser & Shuriken Cannon, Holo Fields
Troops - 5x Dire Avengers
Wave Serpent w/ TL-Scatter Laser & Shuriken Cannon, Holo Fields
Troops - 5x Dire Avengers
Wave Serpent w/ TL-Scatter Laser & Shuriken Cannon, Holo Fields
Troops - 5x Dire Avengers
Wave Serpent w/ TL-Scatter Laser & Shuriken Cannon, Holo Fields
Heavy Support - Wraithknight w/ 2x Heavy Wraithcannon
Heavy Support - Wraithknight w/ 2x Heavy Wraithcannon
Heavy Support - Wraithknight w/ Suncannon & Scattershield, Scatter Laser
VS
HQ - Farseer w/ Jetbike, Singing Spear, Mantle of the Laughing God, Anath'Lan
Elites - 5x Fire Dragons, Exarch w/ Firepike & Fastshot
Wave Serpent w/ TL-Scatter Laser & Shuriken Cannon, Holo Fields
Troops - 5x Dire Avengers
Wave Serpent w/ TL-Scatter Laser & Shuriken Cannon, Holo Fields
Troops - 5x Dire Avengers
Wave Serpent w/ TL-Scatter Laser & Shuriken Cannon, Holo Fields
Troops - 5x Dire Avengers
Wave Serpent w/ TL-Scatter Laser & Shuriken Cannon, Holo Fields
Troops - 5x Dire Avengers
Wave Serpent w/ TL-Scatter Laser & Shuriken Cannon, Holo Fields
Troops - 5x Dire Avengers
Wave Serpent w/ TL-Scatter Laser & Shuriken Cannon, Holo Fields
Heavy Support - Wraithknight w/ 2x Heavy Wraithcannon
Heavy Support - Wraithknight w/ 2x Heavy Wraithcannon
|
|
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2014/09/06 21:08:03
9000 pts 6000 pts 3500 ---> KEEP CALM AND XENOS |
|
|
|
|
2014/09/06 21:27:46
Subject: [2000] - Seerstar VS Serpent Spam - Which one is better?
|
|
Agile Revenant Titan
|
peteralmo wrote:Check that, monofilament doesn't turn ap 1 against vehicles, so cant hurt AV 14, had to check that, but the wraithknights still destroy them, 4 str 10 ap 2 shots between the two of them, and 10 total str 10 attacks on the charge? Yeah, I think they have AV 14 covered. I agree. Just making sure you realize spiders cant hurt 14. Wraith knights are great at it though. Ok, so here is a question, would it be better to drop the spiders for a third wraithknight or a squad of fire dragons inside another wave serpent? Two revised lists, which one is better? HQ - Farseer w/ Jetbike, Singing Spear, Mantle of the Laughing God, Anath'lan Troops - 5x Dire Avengers Wave Serpent w/ TL-Scatter Laser & Shuriken Cannon, Holo Fields Troops - 5x Dire Avengers Wave Serpent w/ TL-Scatter Laser & Shuriken Cannon, Holo Fields Troops - 5x Dire Avengers Wave Serpent w/ TL-Scatter Laser & Shuriken Cannon, Holo Fields Troops - 5x Dire Avengers Wave Serpent w/ TL-Scatter Laser & Shuriken Cannon, Holo Fields Troops - 5x Dire Avengers Wave Serpent w/ TL-Scatter Laser & Shuriken Cannon, Holo Fields Heavy Support - Wraithknight w/ 2x Heavy Wraithcannon Heavy Support - Wraithknight w/ 2x Heavy Wraithcannon Heavy Support - Wraithknight w/ Suncannon & Scattershield, Scatter Laser VS HQ - Farseer w/ Jetbike, Singing Spear, Mantle of the Laughing God, Anath'Lan Elites - 5x Fire Dragons, Exarch w/ Firepike & Fastshot Wave Serpent w/ TL-Scatter Laser & Shuriken Cannon, Holo Fields Troops - 5x Dire Avengers Wave Serpent w/ TL-Scatter Laser & Shuriken Cannon, Holo Fields Troops - 5x Dire Avengers Wave Serpent w/ TL-Scatter Laser & Shuriken Cannon, Holo Fields Troops - 5x Dire Avengers Wave Serpent w/ TL-Scatter Laser & Shuriken Cannon, Holo Fields Troops - 5x Dire Avengers Wave Serpent w/ TL-Scatter Laser & Shuriken Cannon, Holo Fields Troops - 5x Dire Avengers Wave Serpent w/ TL-Scatter Laser & Shuriken Cannon, Holo Fields Heavy Support - Wraithknight w/ 2x Heavy Wraithcannon Heavy Support - Wraithknight w/ 2x Heavy Wraithcannon
Both lists are great. I would try out both and see which does you better. Only time fire dragons would really be better is vs imperial knights, and they could just save you the game.
|
|
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/09/06 21:28:30
I do drugs.
Mostly Plastic Crack, but I do dabble in Cardboard Cocaine. |
|
|
|
|
2014/09/06 21:32:10
Subject: [2000] - Seerstar VS Serpent Spam - Which one is better?
|
|
Screaming Shining Spear
|
Yeah, I think I'll run them both and see.
|
9000 pts 6000 pts 3500 ---> KEEP CALM AND XENOS |
|
|
|
|
2014/09/06 21:38:07
Subject: [2000] - Seerstar VS Serpent Spam - Which one is better?
|
|
Ladies Love the Vibro-Cannon Operator
|
Well, you don't actually need 8 Warlocks. Six should be fine.
Moreover, I'd drop the Baron (and so the allies) since he's too slow when compared to jetbikes.
|
Former moderator 40kOnline
Lanchester's square law - please obey in list building!
Illumini: "And thank you for not finishing your post with a " " I'm sorry, but after 7200 's that has to be the most annoying sign-off ever."
Armies: Eldar, Necrons, Blood Angels, Grey Knights; World Eaters (30k); Bloodbound; Cryx, Circle, Cyriss |
|
|
|
|
|
|
