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(this is not news, this is not a rumor, this is speculation, informed speculation but speculation nonetheless)

So Bell of Lost Souls is asking what will GW do after the last 40k codex is updated, there's what only 3 or 4 to go right?

http://www.belloflostsouls.net/2014/09/40k-editorial-futures-so-bright.html

They optimistically predict new factions like the Hurd but really we have been here before, more than once.

Their next move is a full rules reboot, ala the move from 1st to 2nd and 2nd to 3rd. Or fantasy 10 years back.

The 3rd edition engine has been around almost 15 years now, and in broad terms the 40k rule set has been around for over 25. GW can plausibly argue that a full reboot is called for. And the fact if would requie re-purchasing several 100 dollars worth of rulebook for every fan, well that's just a bonus right?

I mean they're now releasing codexes with FEWER units than the last version, why would anyone thing they're looking to expand?

Honestly, if GW did a pretty extensive reboot of the rules and changed the game in some drastic ways (mainly simplifying a lot of the extra baubles and weirdness there are in the rules that I can never remember) I think it could actually really improve the game. Otherwise, they could do Chapter Approved-style releases which would be interesting. It seems like there's some conscious endgoal they're heading for, since they've been pumping things out so quickly.

The sad thing is, you're probably right. Once all the codexes are in hardcover 7th Ed format, there really isn't anything for GW to release that will pull the sales they need to stay afloat. A new army is a pretty big investment in time and money, and GW has shown they want to make money without spending money (or by spending the absolute minimum they can). But re-writting a rule book is cheaper than creating an army from scratch (or redesigning the Sisters of Battle) so I have a feeling that's the direction they will take.

My other thought is that this seems like a fairly cyclical discussion - did people think the same thing in 3rd, 4th, or 5th edition?

GW hired on a ton of extra designers last year. I'm guessing what happens when they are done is a bunch of temporary designers get laid off, lol.

The problem with introducing new ranges is that it has to make sense from a business perspective. The reason we see so few "new" armies is that a new faction has to fit somewhere in the game, and not potentially leech sales from another product line.

We could always see the company/IP get sold off too, lol.

Now we're in 7th, there's a lot more than codexes that 'need' (in GW speak) updating. Even if they're just adding in new formations/detachments, you can your boots they're going to release a whole new codex.

 Brother SRM wrote:
My other thought is that this seems like a fairly cyclical discussion - did people think the same thing in 3rd, 4th, or 5th edition?

I floated on the edge of GW fandom for Rogue Trader and jumped in for part of 2nd edition. Both times I felt enormous relief at the reboot since (IMHO) both editions were unplayable.

Between family and living overseas for so long I've barely played since, oh, 2009 and at this point a massive simplficiation/reboot would be welcome again. I really just can't see myself with the time or energy to jump back in, especially in this current enviornment of 'everything goes' so it's not enough to know the rules for infantry and vehicles, you also ahve to learn buildings and super heavies and psychic powers and no, just no.

So I'm not hostile to the idea, I just roll my eyes at the obvious cash grab 7th edition was and wince at what they'll extract (from someone else, not me) for 8th.

And sigh at the optomism that leads to people to say that maybe, really, this time, the Demiurge/Sisters/Hurd/Pan-Fo will get models.

GW has not added a new faction since, what, the Tau in 2000? Even the Necrons got a mini codex in 2nd.

 Brother SRM wrote:
Honestly, if GW did a pretty extensive reboot of the rules and changed the game in some drastic ways (mainly simplifying a lot of the extra baubles and weirdness there are in the rules that I can never remember) I think it could actually really improve the game. Otherwise, they could do Chapter Approved-style releases which would be interesting. It seems like there's some conscious endgoal they're heading for, since they've been pumping things out so quickly.

It could improve the game, but they've dug themselves in to a corner with the community. Quick release cycles with such expensive rules is not going to endear them to the community.

It would be great to see 40K return to its Rogue Trader roots (which really lasted through the original Necron release) of creating small miniature lines that aren't designed to be an army.

But the likelihood of GW embracing "small game" 40K seems to be a dimmer and dimmer hope. That would be the best hope for alternative aliens getting models. If they only had a small range to choose from and weren't designed for play that would require a built out codex and a large variety of troop types.

Agreed, look at the joke of a release legion of the damned was, that continued with codex inquisition, codex tempestus at least got a couple of new kits but those were really shared with the am codex release. Then you get the practical joke that is the knights codex, an entire codex for 1 model.

Then the whole every new codex gets a few crappy supplement codex's. Codex assassins drops, did we get a single new miniature there? Nope, and that's kinda pathetic when you consider the limited edition plastic marines stuff that will pop up very now and again, how hard is it to product 4 new models?

You know why we're not going to see a hrud codex? It would require new models. Codex death watch? It would require new models. The joke is, it really does seem like they got rid of a lot of the more experienced staff, brought in some 20 somethings (2 for the price of 1) and just started churning out crap, because the model side has expensive fixed costs while the writing side is cheap, especially if there's zero hard costs like with the digital only releases.

So basically replace optimism with the expectation that anything that would comprise a single book a year or two ago will now be cut into three and drip fed to us.

I'm not sure they'll break the codex cycle, just because everything will have a hardcover codex doesn't mean it's all updated. Those 6E books lack LoW entries, formations, and alternate force orgs that the newer books come with, and GW could start right back in on those if they wanted.

Crablezworth wrote:You know why we're not going to see a hrud codex? It would require new models. Codex death watch? It would require new models. The joke is, it really does seem like they got rid of a lot of the more experienced staff, brought in some 20 somethings (2 for the price of 1) and just started churning out crap, because the model side has expensive fixed costs while the writing side is cheap, especially if there's zero hard costs like with the digital only releases.

Not gonna lie, GW's problem might be the fact that they don't have enough younger people in the house. Their business model hasn't changed in a long time. The company is inflexible and not agile.

I'm guessing if they had some newer blood in there, it would shake up the thought processes. GW's business decisions reek of a company with a stale senior leadership.

All this, and they still won't give SOB a proper codex with new models.

Well, a new army / race type (not some component of a codex made bigger!) would be the financial splash they would be looking for.

Some thoughts:

Adeptus Arbites: GW has been toying with this and their customers for years (many good books too!). I can easily see an "army" of them.

Squats (Demiurg): Or whatever name they could give them, I think a well thought out release can happen.

Rogue Trader "Dynasty": Allow some characterful types and groups.

"Settled" Eldar: Those that escaped the cataclysm, reached a destination and settled a maiden world.

Ork Isolationists: Orks so busy fighting each other they never bothered to look up. Huge boss Orks and up-gunned Ork tech due to ferocious fighting.

Genestealer Cult: The varying degrees of infected and off-shoot Tyranid species.

Skitarii Force: Adeptus Mechanicus fighting force, a whole different level of cool.

Slann: Associated with the "Old Ones" pre-dating Necrons. Not sure how to present humanoid lizards as the next cool thing, but is possible.

So yeah, a few options around, or we just do another reboot of Epic!

I think they will then do a lot of work with fantasy. I would love a sisters actual codex hardback. And some new models lol.

A mass reboot would be a rather big throw of the dice on GW's part, We'll need to keep an eye on WFB, if they use this end times to totally reboot WFB then 40k MIGHT if it's deemed sucessful follow suit. but I'd be pretty certin they'd use the less popular game to test the waters first

I am pretty certain that rather than a reboot which is a financial gamble and requires a lot of effort to make happen. We will see a bunch of supplements, dataslates, and campaign books released. These are extremely cheap ways for GW to sell a book and possibly existing models when they make new army combinations available or formations requiring people to buy new models.

I personally do not mind this as you can always choose not to buy the supplements, etc. and still play your army. Some of the stuff was actually quite good too, with interesting fluff and good rules (the new assassin rules are a vast improvement over the old rules). Rereleasing a codex or a new edition every 2-3 years sounds absolutely awful to me even if they release a new kit every time. The costs to stay in the hobby would double from rapid rereleases such as that.

 Kid_Kyoto wrote:
(this is not news, this is not a rumor, this is speculation, informed speculation but speculation nonetheless)

So Bell of Lost Souls is asking what will GW do after the last 40k codex is updated, there's what only 3 or 4 to go right?

http://www.belloflostsouls.net/2014/09/40k-editorial-futures-so-bright.html

They optimistically predict new factions like the Hurd but really we have been here before, more than once.

Their next move is a full rules reboot, ala the move from 1st to 2nd and 2nd to 3rd. Or fantasy 10 years back.

The 3rd edition engine has been around almost 15 years now, and in broad terms the 40k rule set has been around for over 25. GW can plausibly argue that a full reboot is called for. And the fact if would requie re-purchasing several 100 dollars worth of rulebook for every fan, well that's just a bonus right?

I mean they're now releasing codexes with FEWER units than the last version, why would anyone thing they're looking to expand?

Uh...seriously?

I could also see them releasing new units for armies that already have a codex out, include the rules in a dataslate, or for free online, and get folks buying em.

I think once they've updated everything, if it isn't something stupid like a new edition, they will simply start cycling through the codices again and make new additions as they go. I

I suspect we'll see about a year, maybe two, of more "DLCs" unti the rumors of 8th ed start leaking out, and another year, maybe 2, before 8th Ed 40K sees the light of day.

In my humble opinion...

They are somewhat adopting the PP release format of more regular faction support with new units released as Dataslates so you can slot them in to your army. These will coincide with themed released like the Stormclaw box and Sanctus Reach campaign.

So after all the codex books are up to 7th Ed standard, they will go back and release new dataslates for new units for the existing factions as and when they see fit. As well as releasing new sculpts of units they feel are worth doing when they can tie them in to projects.

I've been around incarnations of Dakka for almost as long as I've been playing 40K, and I've never seen so much dissatisfaction--bordering on anger--from so many people about the game and company. Retailers are pissed, players are polarized, and competitors for wargamers' cash are abundant.

GW could reboot 40K. They could fix the rules which are hideously disjointed, random, and overly complex. They could make kits and new codices for races that have never had proper ones. But, I think they've damaged the community to the point where it might not be enough.

The company culture of GW used to be what sold the product. I cared about the game because I believed that the people making it also cared.

 MWHistorian wrote:
All this, and they still won't give SOB a proper codex with new models.

Ineed and I'm curious if SoB is currently the oldest of any army WFB and 40K that has yet to be updated.

No. they have a codex.

 Kid_Kyoto wrote:
(this is not news, this is not a rumor, this is speculation, informed speculation but speculation nonetheless)

So Bell of Lost Souls is asking what will GW do after the last 40k codex is updated, there's what only 3 or 4 to go right?

http://www.belloflostsouls.net/2014/09/40k-editorial-futures-so-bright.html

They optimistically predict new factions like the Hurd but really we have been here before, more than once.

Their next move is a full rules reboot, ala the move from 1st to 2nd and 2nd to 3rd. Or fantasy 10 years back.

The 3rd edition engine has been around almost 15 years now, and in broad terms the 40k rule set has been around for over 25. GW can plausibly argue that a full reboot is called for. And the fact if would requie re-purchasing several 100 dollars worth of rulebook for every fan, well that's just a bonus right?

I mean they're now releasing codexes with FEWER units than the last version, why would anyone thing they're looking to expand?

What are you talking about? 7th ed was just released, GW still has to release the vast majority of codexes for this new edition...

And they really need to step up the pace if they intend to have them all done in time for 8th edition's release next year.

I don't think they will reboot, they will rather take their new Dataslate approach. It allows them to publish and test things without the risks they had previously. Do not underestimate the investment and lock in with creating and printing a hardcover codex with artworks, shipping it worldwide and then it doesn't sell and blocks shelf space.

They don't have that with Dataslates and I wouldn't be surprised if the Sister of Battle got a Dataslate instead of a Codex or a White Dwarf release.

Complete rules reboot? We can only dream... sorely needed at this point.

2014
Still caring about GW
WTF dakka?

Mymearan wrote:
Complete rules reboot? We can only dream... sorely needed at this point.

And another slap in the face to it's customers. I mean what is this? People are already accepting and or embracing 18 month edition revisions now?

No wonder we go to Games Day to do our favourite part of The Hobby. We just want to keep buying GW stuff, no matter how often we get our stuff invalidated all the time.