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As the title says. i want a wolflord with the relic sword, but from reading it im not sure one can take a CAD, like say iyanden or other supplements.

You wouldn't get the some special rules and FOC that the Champions do, resulting in you playing Space Wolves with a different set of relics instead of true Champions, but you could do it.

Thats Mainly what im after! i just want the krakenborne sword.

Would that mean i also dont have to accept/issue challenges?

I'm pretty sure you can't.

The 'Relics of the Great Wolf' entry is a subheading under the 'Champions of Fenris Special Rules' and both entries specifically say they apply to detachments and formations chosen from the supplement. So by my reading, you absolutely can not use those relics except with detachments and formations from the supplement, in the same way that only detachments and formations from Waaagh Ghazghkull can take Orkimedes Gubbinz.

Similar wording is used in Farsighted Enclaves with no specific formations or detachments presented.

It just means the rules presented for such apply to a force element (formation or detachment) selected as being Champions of Fenris.

You get additional bonuses from using the formations and detachments in the book though.

Ironically enough, a CAD is a detatchment.

So if you take a CAD of Champions of Fenris you have followed all the requirements.

No, the rule is very clear.... in any other detachment than those in the Fenris book, you will not have access to those relics.

So you *can* make a 'Fenris CAD', but I am pretty sure it ends up being exactly the same as a regular SW CAD.

'If you use the Formations or the Company of the Great Wolf Detachment in this book, the following supplemental special rules apply to all of the units they contain.'

'Any character that is part of a Detachment or Formation presented in this book that can select Relics of the Fang cannot select from those listed in Codex: Space Wolves, but can instead select from Relics of the Great Wolf, presented in their own section, following, at the points costs shown.'

I don't think there any ambiguity there. All of the rules in the supplement are intended to be used only with the detachments described in the supplement itself.

Damn it:( whats the smallest detachment i can get from champion of fenris to just get a wolf lord with the sword?

The Smallest?

Lord and two Lone Wolfes (TDA, Hammer, Shield, 2 Wolves =91 each)

Or Lord + 2 Ironpriests
Lord + Scouts

Which formation/detachment is that?

and i thought lone wolves were slotless?

Hmm could just take 2 wolf guard terminator units/dreads or even 2 lone servitors without an iron priest lol. but i usualy take atleast some terminators or dreads. will just mean i need another HQ to lead the Cad so my GHs get Obsec.

Jefffar wrote:
Similar wording is used in Farsighted Enclaves with no specific formations or detachments presented.

It just means the rules presented for such apply to a force element (formation or detachment) selected as being Champions of Fenris.

You get additional bonuses from using the formations and detachments in the book though.

The new supplements are vastly different than the 6th edition supplements. Orks and SW supplements limit everything besides the warlord traits to just the detachment and formations located within the books themselves. Warlord traits are allowed for any Warlord taken from the appropriate faction.

So 6th ed supplements allows for their use of rules and such via a CAD (technically speaking within the same CAD as normal books given how "factions" are worded) but not the newer 7th edition books.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Avlaen wrote:
Which formation/detachment is that?

and i thought lone wolves were slotless?

Hmm could just take 2 wolf guard terminator units/dreads or even 2 lone servitors without an iron priest lol. but i usualy take atleast some terminators or dreads. will just mean i need another HQ to lead the Cad so my GHs get Obsec.

Lone Wolves can be taken w/o a slot when you take Wolf Guard or Wolf Guard Terminators as troops. Otherwise, they are just elites so the smallest option for your relic blade would be the Company of the Great Wolf Detachment from the supplement that is 1 HQ and 2 Elites required.

Avlaen wrote:
Damn it:( whats the smallest detachment i can get from champion of fenris to just get a wolf lord with the sword?

Lord and 2 Servitors w/o IP = 20 points over your Lord cost.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Unholyllama wrote:


Lone Wolves can be taken w/o a slot when you take Wolf Guard or Wolf Guard Terminators as troops. Otherwise, they are just elites so the smallest option for your relic blade would be the Company of the Great Wolf Detachment from the supplement that is 1 HQ and 2 Elites required.

I don't believe that's the case. The way it's written, not using up a Force Organization slot is not dependent on anything. Also, the way it's written, you must take 1 troop or 1 Wolf Guard for each Lone Wolf. The sentences are written as absolutes, not dependent clauses. Compare it to the "Thralls" wording for Servitors. Not sure it's what they intended, could go either way.

Angelic wrote:

Avlaen wrote:
Damn it:( whats the smallest detachment i can get from champion of fenris to just get a wolf lord with the sword?

Lord and 2 Servitors w/o IP = 20 points over your Lord cost.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Unholyllama wrote:


Lone Wolves can be taken w/o a slot when you take Wolf Guard or Wolf Guard Terminators as troops. Otherwise, they are just elites so the smallest option for your relic blade would be the Company of the Great Wolf Detachment from the supplement that is 1 HQ and 2 Elites required.

I don't believe that's the case. The way it's written, not using up a Force Organization slot is not dependent on anything. Also, the way it's written, you must take 1 troop or 1 Wolf Guard for each Lone Wolf. The sentences are written as absolutes, not dependent clauses.

Yeah this is what i thought.

I usualy run one or two elites anyway in my army usualy terminators or a dreadnaught like murder fang. so this shouldnt be a problem, just have to take a second hq is all ;p atleast my wolf guard termies become ws 5

You cannot.

The relics specifically call out that you have to be a character from a detachment/formation from the champions of fenris book to select those relics.

there is 100% no way a CAD will ever qualify as a detachment/formation from the CoF book, because it is not one from there.

Angelic wrote:

 Unholyllama wrote:


Lone Wolves can be taken w/o a slot when you take Wolf Guard or Wolf Guard Terminators as troops. Otherwise, they are just elites so the smallest option for your relic blade would be the Company of the Great Wolf Detachment from the supplement that is 1 HQ and 2 Elites required.

I don't believe that's the case. The way it's written, not using up a Force Organization slot is not dependent on anything. Also, the way it's written, you must take 1 troop or 1 Wolf Guard for each Lone Wolf. The sentences are written as absolutes, not dependent clauses. Compare it to the "Thralls" wording for Servitors. Not sure it's what they intended, could go either way.

Hmm ok. I see what you mean. I guess I am a bit confused by the wording of Lone Wolfs and the fact that they are in the Elite section. Granted, there is no icon for "no force org slot" but the fact they have the Elite icons makes me interpret it as you can take one normally or you can take one outside of the FOC for each WG or WGT squad you have.

The more I read it, I can see the logic of "you can only take a lone wolf IF you take a WG or WGT unit" - I would like to see an FAQ on it to clarify things regardless (wishful thinking I know).

 Unholyllama wrote:
The new supplements are vastly different than the 6th edition supplements. Orks and SW supplements limit everything besides the warlord traits to just the detachment and formations located within the books themselves. Warlord traits are allowed for any Warlord taken from the appropriate faction.

Not true for Waaagh! Ghazghkull. Warlord traits are listed as special rules available only to units from the supplement's detachment and formations.

 Jidmah wrote:

 Unholyllama wrote:
The new supplements are vastly different than the 6th edition supplements. Orks and SW supplements limit everything besides the warlord traits to just the detachment and formations located within the books themselves. Warlord traits are allowed for any Warlord taken from the appropriate faction.

Not true for Waaagh! Ghazghkull. Warlord traits are listed as special rules available only to units from the supplement's detachment and formations.

Ambiguous at best for the Champions of Fenris. The Warlord Traits are a subheading under the main heading which says it describes rules for the detachments in that book. The fact that the Relics of the Great Wolf repeat that condition and the Warlord Traits don't doesn't necessarily mean that the restriction only applies to the Relics and not the the Warlord Traits.